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“Must Pass Cyclist” Motorist Mentality – Do cyclists encourage it?

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“Must Pass Cyclist” Motorist Mentality – Do cyclists encourage it?

Old 06-10-15, 09:34 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
How is that any better than bending them over for Portland? Better to give than receive?
I give every time I commute by helping minimize traffic congestion and pollution. And I feel no need to be overly tolerant of back talk from those I'm helping.
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Old 06-10-15, 09:40 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Blue Belly View Post
Taking the lane is the fastest way anger a driver. The sooner we, as cyclist, realize the size of the disadvantage, the better off we are. Find a safe place & wave them around. If you aren't confident on busy roads, don't ride on them. Forget the laws. They'll only get you seriously injured. Think of your family, your children, let them pass. Help them by waving them around, when it's safe. Hell, pull off the road & let them by, if they are causing a potentially unsafe situation. It's your flesh, bones & life! Enjoy them all the way they are.
I've never heard of a driver intentionally hitting a cyclist because he was angry (though I would not be at all surprised if that has happened somewhere, it is statistically very unlikely)

I have heard many instances of drivers negligently hitting cyclists because they thought they had the space to pass them, or because they were on their phone, or had a couple drinks, or speeding. Taking the lane temporarily when necessary for your safety prevents a driver from trying to pass when it is unsafe. Taking the lane on a narrow street will force a driver to slow down or put their phone down. They may get angry, but you have reduced the possibility of their causing an accident and increased your safety and theirs.
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Old 06-10-15, 09:53 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by bikebreak View Post
I've never heard of a driver intentionally hitting a cyclist because he was angry (though I would not be at all surprised if that has happened somewhere, it is statistically very unlikely)

I have heard many instances of drivers negligently hitting cyclists because they thought they had the space to pass them, or because they were on their phone, or had a couple drinks, or speeding. Taking the lane temporarily when necessary for your safety prevents a driver from trying to pass when it is unsafe. Taking the lane on a narrow street will force a driver to slow down or put their phone down. They may get angry, but you have reduced the possibility of their causing an accident and increased your safety and theirs.
I've heard of several. You don't remember the one in Santa Monica, CA, a few years back?
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Old 06-10-15, 09:57 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by spare_wheel View Post
I disagree completely. Accommodating a majority view that at a minimum enables the brutalization of human beings does not generally lead to progress. My goal is not to understand their ubiquitous point of view; rather, it is to change their point of view.

London Cycling Campaign | Campaigns | Key campaigns | Love London, Go Dutch | Holland in the 1970s
A view from the cycle path: Stop the Child Murder




It's telling that you fixated on cycling even though I place "walking" first in my comment multiple times. The narcissistic manner in which this nation treats active transport risk should be met with anger.




Exactly. My personal advocacy focuses on undermining the cars-vs-bikes agitprop promoted by our corporate media.




Expressions of anger have a context-specific role but are not generally useful if they become a main focus. On the other hand, history has shown that aggressive protest and direct action is essential for social change.
No offense, but I think your approach may be a little over the top.
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Old 06-10-15, 12:53 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Blue Belly View Post
No offense, but I think your approach may be a little over the top.
It's intentional and something I've given a lot of thought.
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Old 06-10-15, 12:59 PM
  #56  
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This is what I tell the kids:

Ride like you're 6' wide. It's easy to remember and results in good lane position, taking corners wide etc. We're in a FRAP state and I've never been hassled for riding like that. The cars consistently wait until it's (mostly) safe to pass and will go into the other lane to do it. There's always the occasional idiot in a hurry, but you still have 3' of bail out room with that method. That said, I haven't had to ditch yet.
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Old 06-10-15, 01:08 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mozad655 View Post
The fact that they honked at you suggests that there was enough room for both of you. You were blocking the road and they honked. It is understandable. What if it was a motorcycle behind you? Blocking the road is never acceptable. If there is very little room then you should still ride on the far right and they will see that there is no room. But if your expecting a 2 meter gap, then maybe this is the problem..
"The fact that they honked at you suggests that there was enough room for both of you." HA! HA HA! I get harassing honks from cars on the other side of the road, when I have no effect on their path. Do you ever ride a bike on the road??? You really should not be giving advice about riding a bike on the road.
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Old 06-10-15, 05:46 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
"The fact that they honked at you suggests that there was enough room for both of you." HA! HA HA! I get harassing honks from cars on the other side of the road, when I have no effect on their path. Do you ever ride a bike on the road??? You really should not be giving advice about riding a bike on the road.
Clearly mozad has very little idea how cyclists and motorists interact in countries where we do not have extensive bike path networks... nor does mozad have any understanding of what speed LIMIT means... especially in the US. Although the limit is often broken by speeding motorists, the fact is there is no accepted policy of tolerance... it's more that LEOs have to find terrorists and drug abusers, not speeding motorists.

The fact is that without an extensive bike path / bike lane network, cyclists have nearly the same rights to the road as any other road user... and mozad doesn't seem to be aware of that.

So indeed I agree with you... mozad should not be telling cyclists how to ride in the US.
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Old 06-10-15, 05:51 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
In many parts of my route, I'm going the same speed as traffic and maintaining the same spacing as the other vehicles on the road.

However, some drivers simply can't wrap their heads around a bicycle that's going the same speed as the cars in front of it. I've wound up with cars halfway out of the lane stopped to my left behind a car stopped in front of us many times. I've wound up at a stop sign in the middle of the lane with a car half-passed me to my left - though in those cases it's not that big a deal if there's no oncoming traffic because car drivers always blow stop signs anyway so they're gone soon enough.

Even though I'm going the same speed as the car in front of me, they try to pass anyway.

It's certainly not the case that an overtaking driver will wait if they see that there is not enough room. I have someone pass me for no good reason at least once or twice a week. They wind up driving beside me because I was already as close to the car in front of me as they can get; there was no reason to pass me other than "it's a bicycle - you have to pass bicycles, always, every time, there's no decision to be made, bicycle, pass it."
This ^^^ had it happen a number of times... I always find it somewhat amusing (and a touch frustrating...) when some motorist passes me on the left so they can make a right turn while I am center biased to go straight across an intersection.
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Old 06-11-15, 12:00 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
I don't think it matters whether it's a cyclist in this situation. I know many people who drive as though if they're not passing then they're not winning.
Exactly. When I'm driving my car, the same thing happens. People pass you and then immediately slow down to turn, or pass you on the freeway and then pull into your lane and slow down. It's apparently human nature for some people. That have to be in front, whether they need to or not.
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Old 06-11-15, 12:43 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by delcrossv View Post
This is what I tell the kids:

Ride like you're 6' wide. It's easy to remember and results in good lane position, taking corners wide etc. We're in a FRAP state and I've never been hassled for riding like that. The cars consistently wait until it's (mostly) safe to pass and will go into the other lane to do it. There's always the occasional idiot in a hurry, but you still have 3' of bail out room with that method. That said, I haven't had to ditch yet.
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Old 06-12-15, 09:21 AM
  #62  
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In the AGE OF TEXTING
Riding in the middle of the road-or left of middle
is a bad idea because that is EXACTLY where the occasionally guided cars spend most of their time.
They TEXTER driven cars sweep out a path more or less in the middle of the road-
They spend the least amount of time/space FAR RIGHT-so that is where you will find me.

You DON'T get hit by the driver who gives you a close shave-the guy who makes the nasty close pass
he is paying attention to the road
You get hit by the driver who is NOT GUIDING his car(actually he guides adjusts his line every 3-5 seconds)

The idea that TAKING THE LANE makes you safer assumes the driver actually sees you and is actually paying attention
HE/SHE isn't!!

You will get hit by a distracted driver-not a close shave jerk

VC TAKING THE LANE was never demonstrated to be safer in the pre-cell phone world
It sure as hell isn't safer in the TEXTING WORLD

Ride where cars spend the least amount of time-far right
PROBABILITY


Good to see this forum NEVER CHANGES.
I stop by once a year to check things out

Is-JF- the unfailingly polite LEADER OF VC still here??
he is the only reason any of this caught on-
he is an adult-his progeny-usually aren't.
Yes he is/was a likable adult

TEXTING has changed everything


Oh slight aside-
a LSU BR professor-Big Time prof-english dept-expert in old limey laws-
was killed last week-
her bike "broke down" and she was hit on a rural road-(N of Baton Rouge I think)- while pushing her bike
No charges no video I guess-many LA roads have no shoulder to speak of-or it is narrow broken up and glass strewn
real shame-apparently she was well liked-60 something years old-
Guessing someone posted this already
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Old 06-12-15, 09:29 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
Is-JF- the unfailingly polite LEADER OF VC still here??
he is the only reason any of this caught on-
he is an adult-his progeny-usually aren't.
Yes he is/was a likable adult.
What "JF" are you referring to in this post? I don't know of any "JF" that fit that description!
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Old 06-12-15, 02:42 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
In the AGE OF TEXTING
Riding in the middle of the road-or left of middle
is a bad idea because that is EXACTLY where the occasionally guided cars spend most of their time.
They TEXTER driven cars sweep out a path more or less in the middle of the road-
They spend the least amount of time/space FAR RIGHT-so that is where you will find me.

You DON'T get hit by the driver who gives you a close shave-the guy who makes the nasty close pass
he is paying attention to the road
You get hit by the driver who is NOT GUIDING his car(actually he guides adjusts his line every 3-5 seconds)

The idea that TAKING THE LANE makes you safer assumes the driver actually sees you and is actually paying attention
HE/SHE isn't!!

You will get hit by a distracted driver-not a close shave jerk

VC TAKING THE LANE was never demonstrated to be safer in the pre-cell phone world
It sure as hell isn't safer in the TEXTING WORLD

Ride where cars spend the least amount of time-far right
PROBABILITY


Good to see this forum NEVER CHANGES.
I stop by once a year to check things out

Is-JF- the unfailingly polite LEADER OF VC still here??
he is the only reason any of this caught on-
he is an adult-his progeny-usually aren't.
Yes he is/was a likable adult

TEXTING has changed everything


Oh slight aside-
a LSU BR professor-Big Time prof-english dept-expert in old limey laws-
was killed last week-
her bike "broke down" and she was hit on a rural road-(N of Baton Rouge I think)- while pushing her bike
No charges no video I guess-many LA roads have no shoulder to speak of-or it is narrow broken up and glass strewn
real shame-apparently she was well liked-60 something years old-
Guessing someone posted this already
I would rather have a motorist behind me, than next to me. In the same lane. Why, Because I have been hit several times, 'hugging the curb'. The only time I was hit from behind. Was on a sunny day. I had pulled out of location of a regional bike shop. I crossed two northbound lanes' of a four-lane 40mph road, free n' clear. I stopped in the dual-turn lane. So I could merge into the outside lane of the southbound traffic to make a right turn at the next light. It was while waiting to merge, that I got rear-ended. But when I have 'hugged the curb, I have been more vulnerable.

So, I will continue to 'take the lane'. I am not about to let some motorized moron turn me into roadkill. On account of their stupid driving.
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Old 06-12-15, 02:51 PM
  #65  
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I like to bike-
I thought his name was John -
maybe John Forester??
Brit living in the USA-??
He was a big VC booster-
It has been a while-so maybe I have it wrong
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Old 06-12-15, 02:56 PM
  #66  
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The middle of the lane is where unguided cars spend the most time
Bike riders hit from behind-are hit by drivers who aren't even aware they are in front of them
"I didn't see him"
It has been that way since LONG BEFORE cell phones
Drivers are distracted-they hit buses- "I didn't see it"

Rear end collisions of all types have always been "I didn't see him"
The drivers aren't lying(usually)-they didn't perceive the bike car bus they hit-distracted.
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Old 06-12-15, 05:18 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
I like to bike-
I thought his name was John -
maybe John Forester??
Brit living in the USA-??
He was a big VC booster-
It has been a while-so maybe I have it wrong
You've got the name correctly; your description of "unfailingly polite" and likeable" may cause confusion though.
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Old 06-12-15, 06:08 PM
  #68  
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https://www.google.com/#q=john+forrester+bike
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Old 06-12-15, 06:18 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by phoebeisis View Post
The middle of the lane is where unguided cars spend the most time
Bike riders hit from behind-are hit by drivers who aren't even aware they are in front of them
"I didn't see him"
It has been that way since LONG BEFORE cell phones
Drivers are distracted-they hit buses- "I didn't see it"

Rear end collisions of all types have always been "I didn't see him"
The drivers aren't lying(usually)-they didn't perceive the bike car bus they hit-distracted.
Maybe you want to be passed within less than the length of your arm. But when I 'take the lane', motorists' pay more attention. Because they won't be behind me at less than the length of my arm. They will be farther behind me.
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Old 06-12-15, 06:24 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Maybe you want to be passed within less than the length of your arm. But when I 'take the lane', motorists' pay more attention. Because they won't be behind me at less than the length of my arm. They will be farther behind me.
Sure, all in when you're in, and all out when you're out, but one doesn't need to be all in all the time. There are as often as not safe or safer alternatives and its absurd to ignore them based on wild imaginings of every conceivable what if.
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Old 06-12-15, 06:55 PM
  #71  
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I think the reason is because motorists think that a cyclist is just going to tip over at any moment and they don't want to be anywhere near them when it happens. At least that's what it seems like around here where there's not a whole lot of cyclists on the streets.
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Old 06-12-15, 07:10 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Sure, all in when you're in, and all out when you're out, but one doesn't need to be all in all the time. There are as often as not safe or safer alternatives and its absurd to ignore them based on wild imaginings of every conceivable what if.
Ever heard of consistency, or is that a foreign concept to you? By being consistent in your lane position, motorists' won't be scratching there heads about passing you.
Originally Posted by Wolf Dust View Post
I think the reason is because motorists think that a cyclist is just going to tip over at any moment and they don't want to be anywhere near them when it happens. At least that's what it seems like around here where there's not a whole lot of cyclists on the streets.
While I would wonder why motorists' think that. I do think that is a fair assessment.
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Old 06-12-15, 07:16 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by Chris516 View Post
Ever heard of consistency, or is that a foreign concept to you? By being consistent in your lane position, motorists' won't be scratching there heads about passing you.
It seems like you're deliberately misinterpreting what @kickstart is saying. Take the lane when you are traveling at the speed limit, need to merge, turn, pass an obstruction, avoid a blind corner, etc. Ride as close to the shoulder as is safe at other times, so as not to obstruct the flow of traffic. This all seems eminently reasonable.
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Old 06-12-15, 07:26 PM
  #74  
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I think that we all have our typical commutes or routes in mind when discussing stuff like this. I know that the roads I take are quite relaxed w/ 25-30 mph speed limits, often with bike lanes or wide boulevards, and with motorists that are, on average, extremely considerate. I get waves and smiles on my commute, not horns and fingers. My experience is going to be vastly different than that someone who rides in NYC, or in the suburbs, or on the frontage road. I wish we could all give each other a bit more of a benefit of the doubt when discussing things like this.

Taking the lane, biking near the shoulder, biking on the sidewalk: all of these things can be reasonable in certain conditions, with certain riders, on certain bikes. What one can do on a 40 mph road w/ a cargo bike is going to quite different than what another can do on the same road w/ a road bike. It seems odd to talk about these things in absolutes given the differences in roads, bikes, and riders.
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Old 06-12-15, 07:32 PM
  #75  
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I think phoebeisis makes the strongest point in this thread, and I ride with the same understanding as he stated. In my opinion, it's the only way to look at it.
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