:thumb:Great animation!!!:thumb:

But controlling the lane is scary. What if a motorist doesn't slow or change lanes? Won't I be turned into road pizza?

If the driver is TEXTING
That is EXACTLY what will happen 100% of the time if you are dead center
If you are FRAP- you might luck out-clean miss or "just" mirror thump-
sure he might get you if you are FRAP-ing
depends on luck/probability-
on just which way he is drifting-and how much
Far right is a less probably position than dead center
Far left-might be about the same(or even slightly safer)-for a hit from the same direction driver
but it exposes you more to the oncoming driver-who is also texting(occasionally)

Of course as others have said-bike riding isn't extremely dangerous-
more dangerous-per mile-that driving-but not as dangerous-per hour-as base jumping-or sky diving-or scuba diving

I love the comment about "stress free cycling..." as if motorists from behind won't lay on their horns...

Road pizza 100% of the time if I'm in the lane? Wow, that is scary. I guess I'm better off going with the luck and mirror thump thingie. :lol:

Fortunately, drivers don't text 100% of the time... so your odds are a bit better... of course you never really know which driver is the distracted one... so a touch Las Vegas there.

Correct. Also there are many drivers who can't think ahead any further than the vehicle directly in front of them. Just this morning on my drive in to work there was one driver who was changing lanes all over the place because there was a gap in the lane next to them large enough to sneak ahead of one car in their lane even though they would shortly find themselves moving back over to the original lane since it was moving faster.

Their constant lane changing to gain 12 feet forced several close calls including one where the 2 lane road splits to 3 a mile before the highway splits to two different two lane highways (left lane merges to one highway, right to another, and the middle splits to both). They moved over to the left since it moves faster, but then shortly after had to move back over to get to the correct highway. Meanwhile there is an on-ramp on the right where the drivers going to the left highway have a very short time to move over to the left/middle lane. Not a big deal since they just have to find a gap in the middle lane to sneak into, but then they have to deal with this moron merging back into the middle lane.

People in general are just stupid. Cyclists, motorists, pedestrians, shut-ins, every single type of person you can think of has stupid people mingling with them. People get into a little bubble in their own head and they become the only important thing in their life and they are not going to waste precious seconds of time waiting on you.

As to the dangers of cycling, that depends on where you ride. If you ride in Alaska, you're statistically pretty safe. However, in Florida your chances aren't so good where cycling is less than 2% of all miles traveled and nearly 6% of all vehicle fatalities.

There isn't any question that distracted driving is one of the hazards cyclists face. With just a quick Google search there are thousands of links to cyclists killed by texting drivers. Now, most of those links refer to the same dozen or so incidents that have occurred in the last several years, so it doesn't appear to be common by any stretch. The other thing to note is that none of the incidents I reviewed had the cyclist in the lane. To the contrary there were specific notes as to the cyclist being right on the road or in a bike lane. This could be because not many cyclists take the lane, but I tend to doubt that as the practice is somewhat common in experienced cyclists in my area. Luck?, maybe, but if taking the lane is lethal with rabid texting drivers on the road, let's see some evidence to demonstrate that it's more hazardous than being at the side of the road. Otherwise its just academic rhetoric.

Radio public service ad today said drivers who look at an incoming text
on average take their eyes off the road for 5 seconds
5 seconds 35mph vs 15 mph
means they closed on you 150 feet

Yeah but most of those "just stupid" are not piloting a "moving mass." See, this is what makes drivers "special." Drivers acting stupid can kill others quite easily with that large moving mass they are supposed to be in control of...

...and?

Isn't that true regardless of your position on the road?

Is that evidence that taking the lane has caused the death of anyone due to distracted driving? More so than keeping right?

I'm willing to review my position, but I can't do so if there is no evidence that contradicts that position.

It's less likely than if you were riding right on most urban streets.

You started out on the correct logical path but went astray when you assumed that your observations of your locale and it's "experienced cyclists' practices" are representative of cyclists elsewhere, or of the areas, cyclists or scenarios where the accidents occurred that you found repeated on the Internet.

Vehicular cyclist proselytizers also make similar shaky statements about "safety stats" based on the fallacy of ignoring that most cyclists (who overwhelmingly are not so-called "experienced cyclists") do not ride in the lane with heavy and/or fast traffic.

"Experienced cyclists" who practice riding in the lane in busy and/or fast traffic without an accompanying group of cyclists for added visibility are a rare breed seldom found outside of Internet blogs and forums.

One is much more likely to be seen by a texting driver riding in the center of the lane than riding on the right. Being seen drastically reduces one's probability of being hit.

True, riding a bicycle on US streets is generally pretty safe. That doesn't mean that we can't do things to increase safety. Would you extend your logic to claim that riding against traffic is as safe as riding with traffic, because riding against traffic is still pretty safe, in absolute terms. Would you also claim that riding at night without lights is just as safe as riding with bright "to see" lights, just because riding at night without lights is still pretty safe in absolute terms? Claiming that lane position doesn't matter much is just as absurd.

We are discussing this in far too general terms, and as I stated earlier, we have to take each situation individually and think. When I refer to taking the lane it is on smallish, narrow, slower roads. Doing so on a 3 lane 50 mph highway is unwise and such roads usually don't have blind corners or hills either.

That happens to me only very rarely, riding in a medium sized city. Most drivers are pretty courteous most of the time, more so when I control the lane. As far as stress of riding with traffic, it's easily lowest for me when I'm in the lane on a well chosen route.

Were the relatively few cyclists killed by texting drivers that you read about on the Internet riding on "smallish, narrow, slower roads" at the time of collision?

This! Had one of these people on my commute this morning and I witness it every single day.
Warning, no bike content but you get the idea: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmyrcxZumYc

We deal with this quite a bit while out on our tandem. The driver behind cannot see what I can and decides to go around. Had a discussion with my wife while out on a ride yesterday because she thought I was moving right and waving drivers past with not enough oncoming distance in sight. I told her that despite our lane position, some drivers will still pass and I would rather slow and be in some control and not pinched when they come around anyway.

"But controlling the lane is scary. What if a motorist doesn't slow or change lanes? Won't I be turned into road pizza?"

Agreed. I was just trying to revitalize the conversation with a mildly sarcastic, tongue in check question. Besides, if Kickstart gets to cover both sides, so can I!

And you used to be one of that rare breed for many years! Since you're not road pizza, obviously the lane control technique works!

Not only seen, but seen as RELEVANT!

Why don't you knock off the Socratic BS and state your point.

To be fair, most "experienced cyclists" avoid busy streets with high speed limits whenever possible.

I think that might be part of the disconnect in this thread. Some of the people advocating riding to the far right or on the shoulder are unnecessarily selecting routes that are much better suited for operating a motor vehicle than for piloting a bicycle. I occasionally see bicyclists riding on car-centric arterial streets around here, but most of the bicyclists, including the more experienced urban cyclists, tend to use the streets a block or three over, which have lower traffic volume, lower speed limits, fewer traffic signals, and are generally much faster (and far less stressful) than the main roads when traveling by bicycle.

Evidence?? (said like Allen Iverson "PRACTICE")
There isn't any evidence for ANY of this-!!
My position is based on "cars are 6-7 feet wide and spend the most time in the middle of the lane"
They if you ride in the middle-you NEVER are out of the kill zone-

Evidence-there isn't ANYTHING remotely like evidence for any of this

Of course FRAP is generally the law
and cops usually interpret FRAP to mean-get far right
There isn't actual evidence either supporting either position

Tell that to the family of Milton Olin Jr.

I'm not claiming any position to be absolutely right, wrong, or indifferent. I'm just disputing the claims that one should or shouldn't choose a given position because of what might happen when in reality there's no clear and present risk to ones self or impediment to others.
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