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Darwinism at work; another reckless cyclist takes the full lane and gets hit

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Darwinism at work; another reckless cyclist takes the full lane and gets hit

Old 06-11-15, 01:03 PM
  #26  
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I agree about not taking the lane always. I hardly ever take the lane, but if I do, I have a darned good reason to do so, and it's not up to the overtaking vehicle to decide that I shouldn't be there and punish pass me. There's probably a hazard that the motorist can't see, either immediately or coming up.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:22 PM
  #27  
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I can't judge whether the cyclists were riding like jerks or not...there's no video...but it's EXTREMELY unlikely for the cyclist to have been at fault for contact during a pass. Frankly the cyclists being a-holes, or anything else leading up to contact, is totally irrelevant. Unless the cyclist veered into the guy's line during the pass...which I find extremely unlikely...it's the cop's fault. The question then becomes was it just ordinary negligence (in which case the cop should be re-trained at the least, as well as ticketed) or something else. It's very hard not to suspect that this was extraordinarily poor judgement by the cop.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:24 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I have a pretty dim view of cyclists who take the full lane at all times as a matter of ideology or principle, but that said...NO ONE DESERVES TO BE HIT. Period. Ever. If the officer hit them passing, it is the officer's fault. To put this in simplest terms, two wrongs don't make a right...and someone else's behavior doesn't justify yours.

Everyone...including cyclists...has a duty to avoid accidents. What this means is that if a pedestrian is walking through a red, you are still obligated to slow down and avoid hitting them. Their behavior doesn't make it deer season. This is no different...the cyclists acting like inconsiderate asstards (assuming that's what happened, I can't judge that without seeing the road) doesn't justify an unsafe pass by an officer. If there was contact during the pass...unless a cyclist moved into his lane, it was by definition an unsafe pass. The officer also has a higher responsibility as a public guardian given a great deal of authority.

This is especially offensive because the officer had other options...like issuing tickets, arresting people for creating a disturbance, etc.

If the cyclist had been a poor black guy in Philly, I assure you he would have been beaten, possibly shot, behaving like that.
+1 hear hear
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Old 06-11-15, 01:25 PM
  #29  
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We really need the video of the incident, and setting it happened in.

My riding varies depending on the situation.

I'm much more likely to "take the lane" if I'm riding 20 to 25 MPH than if I'm riding 10 to 15. At higher speeds one must be far more conscious about things like door zones, pedestrians, and etc. But that also depends on where I'm riding. If it is heavy traffic at 60 MPH... I'm not going to piddle down the middle of the road.

I also facilitate people passing by pulling right whenever it is safe and practical, including occasionally almost coming to a halt in a driveway if needed.

Riding 2 abreast is ok for no traffic... but not in traffic.

"Didn't have room to pass"????
Of course, that road appears to have a double yellow line.
Passing in an urban setting is complicated to say the least, as apparently happened in the film, a car pulled out as the officer was trying to pass the cyclist.
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Old 06-11-15, 01:45 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mozad655
Another accident caused by some cyclists who decided to take the full lane, thus blocking the road and provoking dangerous overtakings. Apparantly one of them was hit by a passing police vehicle (which in their mind automatically made the cyclist a victim). The officer signaled that they should make room for passing vehicles, and the cyclists refused. The cyclists expected the police vehicle to drive behind them at low speed for the entire way. In other words, that all vehicles on the road slow down to their speed. Apparantly trying to blocking all traffic behind you is the "safest" way to ride. Funny how most of these accidents with passing cars seem to happen to riders with that kind of egocentric mentality. I'll leave you with a video of what followed after; the cyclists shouting at the police and playing the victim game because their vehicle is delicate and they got hurt in an accident that they provoked. I am a cyclist. I have never owned a car. I believe reckless cyclists like these are a shame to the cycling-movement but fortunately also a rarity. Darwin is taking care of that for us.

https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=87f_1433901279
You have no idea what you are talking about, what the law is regarding lane usage and certainly you have no idea that the accepted wisdom is to take the lane to avoid dangerous passes. Your whining screed is nothing but spouting what cyclist haters constantly repeat. Yes, I believe in Darwin and if you follow your misinformed ideas about cycling, he will visit you next.
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Old 06-11-15, 03:27 PM
  #31  
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This is actually one of the more benign confrontations we have seen. Everyone behaved pretty civil, and there seems to be no blood and no injury (either from the accident or from assault). We'd be living close to Heaven if all confrontations and 'accidents' are within this level.
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Old 06-11-15, 04:23 PM
  #32  
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Mozad, Lack of actual video of the incident lacks a true assessment. The most the offered video gives. Is a hothead cyclist vs. a hothead police officer.
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Old 06-11-15, 05:58 PM
  #33  
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Here's a thought.... the LEO (without lights/siren) is a subordinate user to the roadway compared to me, the private citizen. In other words, my right as a private citizen to use public roadway to get my destination trumps the "officer of the state" who is driving around without destination (no emergency).
So, the LEO was without right to become impatient and dangerously pass any vehicle. (We no longer have to "make way" for the King!)
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Old 06-11-15, 06:17 PM
  #34  
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Sometimes when a driver intends to "teach a lesson" to a cyclist by making an extremely close pass or even lightly touching the cyclist with the vehicle, things may not turn out the way the driver meant. The result can be fatal. How can you make sure to be exactly 1" from the cyclist while both are moving?
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Old 06-11-15, 06:26 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I have a pretty dim view of cyclists who take the full lane at all times as a matter of ideology or principle, but that said...NO ONE DESERVES TO BE HIT. Period. Ever. If the officer hit them passing, it is the officer's fault. To put this in simplest terms, two wrongs don't make a right...and someone else's behavior doesn't justify yours.

Everyone...including cyclists...has a duty to avoid accidents. What this means is that if a pedestrian is walking through a red, you are still obligated to slow down and avoid hitting them. Their behavior doesn't make it deer season. This is no different...the cyclists acting like inconsiderate asstards (assuming that's what happened, I can't judge that without seeing the road) doesn't justify an unsafe pass by an officer. If there was contact during the pass...unless a cyclist moved into his lane, it was by definition an unsafe pass. The officer also has a higher responsibility as a public guardian given a great deal of authority.

This is especially offensive because the officer had other options...like issuing tickets, arresting people for creating a disturbance, etc.

If the cyclist had been a poor black guy in Philly, I assure you he would have been beaten, possibly shot, behaving like that.
I 'take the lane', to avoid from being hit. Also, To be able to avoid:

1. Road debris
2. Vehicles suddenly pulling out of a parking spot or residential/business entrance/driveway
3. Vehicles passing close pinching cyclists' to the curb
4. Pedestrians
5. Sewage drain grates
6. Stopped cars
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Old 06-11-15, 06:38 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Chris516
I 'take the lane', to avoid from being hit. Also, To be able to avoid:

1. Road debris
2. Vehicles suddenly pulling out of a parking spot or residential/business entrance/driveway
3. Vehicles passing close pinching cyclists' to the curb
4. Pedestrians
5. Sewage drain grates
6. Stopped cars
7. Right hooks
8. Road work on the intersecting road creating a lip on the shoulder with no warning sign (happened to me when commuting home at night)
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Old 06-11-15, 07:34 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by benjdm
7. Right hooks
8. Road work on the intersecting road creating a lip on the shoulder with no warning sign (happened to me when commuting home at night)
Yes, Those too.
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Old 06-11-15, 08:03 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Chief
Here's a thought.... the LEO (without lights/siren) is a subordinate user to the roadway compared to me, the private citizen. In other words, my right as a private citizen to use public roadway to get my destination trumps the "officer of the state" who is driving around without destination (no emergency).
So, the LEO was without right to become impatient and dangerously pass any vehicle. (We no longer have to "make way" for the King!)
And you are sure those two cyclists were riding "with a destination"?

The officer may well have been delayed getting to the donut shop.
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Old 06-11-15, 08:13 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Leebo
Point you are trying to make?
You (highly likely) don't drive only a bike, like me.
You drive a motor vehicle, as your primary method of transportation.
Going by anyone that drives a motor vehicle (cyclist or not): that's, in theory, similar to a bully picking on another who be smaller.
Motor vehicles ARE BULLIES.
As cyclists who drive motor vehicles ARE BULLIES (choose to pose) against cyclists --- for certain reasons.
aka bully game.

Last edited by molten; 06-11-15 at 08:14 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 06-11-15, 08:23 PM
  #40  
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What's wrong with not 'take the lane.' So to brave through:
1: that is such a common put-up, 2: all you gotta know is how to maneuver the bike. Hence experience/skills, 3: same answer as to #2 , 4 & 6 & 7interrelate
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Old 06-11-15, 08:29 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
And you are sure those two cyclists were riding "with a destination"?

The officer may well have been delayed getting to the donut shop.
Oh, we always have a "destination" or reason to use use the roadway, it's just that motor vehicles have a more "important" destination than that of cyclists'.
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Old 06-11-15, 08:39 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by molten
Motor vehicles ARE BULLIES.
Cars are simply pieces of steel, they are not bullies.

Some drivers are aggressive, but certainly not all.

Just yesterday I had a few cars pull up behind me on winding roads that I thought "Just Pass Me". But I simply found places to pull over further and let them go on their way. SHARE THE ROAD.
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Old 06-12-15, 01:57 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by molten
What's wrong with not 'take the lane.' So to brave through:
1: that is such a common put-up, 2: all you gotta know is how to maneuver the bike. Hence experience/skills, 3: same answer as to #2 , 4 & 6 & 7interrelate
Reaction time, as to not being able to see/focus on traffic potentially coming from both directions.

I am able to see both directions(right or left) a motorist may be coming from. I also avoid the dreaded hook. I improve my visual sight lines, so I won't be caught off guard.
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Old 06-12-15, 03:29 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
I have a pretty dim view of cyclists who take the full lane at all times as a matter of ideology or principle, but that said...NO ONE DESERVES TO BE HIT. Period. Ever. If the officer hit them passing, it is the officer's fault. To put this in simplest terms, two wrongs don't make a right...and someone else's behavior doesn't justify yours.

Everyone...including cyclists...has a duty to avoid accidents. What this means is that if a pedestrian is walking through a red, you are still obligated to slow down and avoid hitting them. Their behavior doesn't make it deer season. This is no different...the cyclists acting like inconsiderate asstards (assuming that's what happened, I can't judge that without seeing the road) doesn't justify an unsafe pass by an officer. If there was contact during the pass...unless a cyclist moved into his lane, it was by definition an unsafe pass. The officer also has a higher responsibility as a public guardian given a great deal of authority.

This is especially offensive because the officer had other options...like issuing tickets, arresting people for creating a disturbance, etc.

If the cyclist had been a poor black guy in Philly, I assure you he would have been beaten, possibly shot, behaving like that.
My exact feelings.
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Old 06-12-15, 04:43 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Chris516
Reaction time, as to not being able to see/focus on traffic potentially coming from both directions.

I am able to see both directions(right or left) a motorist may be coming from. I also avoid the dreaded hook. I improve my visual sight lines, so I won't be caught off guard.
They're still all lame, transparent excuses for doing it all the time even when unnecessary or counter productive.
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Old 06-12-15, 05:20 PM
  #46  
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Police Officer did not say they did something wrong but then unlawfully detains them.
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Old 06-12-15, 05:37 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by kickstart
They're still all lame, transparent excuses for doing it all the time even when unnecessary or counter productive.
You say lame. Look at my response, back in 2011: https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...le-yellow.html

This is what it says today:

Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 21-305

Annotated Code of Maryland
Copyright © 2015 by Matthew Bender and Company, Inc., a member of the LexisNexis Group
All rights reserved.

*** Statutes current through 2014 legislation ***

TRANSPORTATION
TITLE 21. VEHICLE LAWS -- RULES OF THE ROAD
SUBTITLE 3. DRIVING ON RIGHT SIDE OF ROADWAY; OVERTAKING AND PASSING; USE OF ROADWAY

Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 21-305 (2014)

§ 21-305. Limitations on overtaking or driving to left


(a) Clear visibility required; return to authorized lane. --

(1) The driver of a vehicle may not drive to the left of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle going in the same direction unless:

(i) Authorized by this subtitle; and

(ii) The left side of the roadway is clearly visible and is free of approaching traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit the overtaking and passing to be completed without interfering with the operation of any other vehicle approaching from the opposite direction or any other vehicle overtaken.

(2) The overtaking vehicle shall return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and, if the passing movement uses a lane authorized for vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within 200 feet of any approaching vehicle.

(b) Grades, curves, intersections, crossings, bridges, etc. --

(1) This subsection does not apply on a one-way roadway.

(2) The driver of a vehicle may not drive on the left side of any roadway if:

(i) The vehicle is approaching the crest of a grade or is on a curve in the highway where the driver's view is obstructed for such a distance as to be dangerous should another vehicle approach from the opposite direction;

(ii) The vehicle is crossing or approaching within 100 feet of any intersection or railroad grade crossing; or

(iii) The driver's view is obstructed while approaching within 100 feet of any bridge, viaduct, or tunnel.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 66 1/2, § 11-305; 1977, ch. 14, § 2.


No change. You may want to be collateral damage. Courtesy of a motorist that doesn't want to move into the other lane. But I don't.

Last edited by Chris516; 06-12-15 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 06-12-15, 06:14 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Chris516
You say lame. Look at my response, back in 2011: https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...le-yellow.html

This is what it says today:

Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 21-305

Annotated Code of Maryland
Copyright © 2015 by Matthew Bender and Company, Inc., a member of the LexisNexis Group
All rights reserved.

*** Statutes current through 2014 legislation ***

TRANSPORTATION
TITLE 21. VEHICLE LAWS -- RULES OF THE ROAD
SUBTITLE 3. DRIVING ON RIGHT SIDE OF ROADWAY; OVERTAKING AND PASSING; USE OF ROADWAY

Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 21-305 (2014)

§ 21-305. Limitations on overtaking or driving to left


(a) Clear visibility required; return to authorized lane. --

(1) The driver of a vehicle may not drive to the left of the center of the roadway in overtaking and passing another vehicle going in the same direction unless:

(i) Authorized by this subtitle; and

(ii) The left side of the roadway is clearly visible and is free of approaching traffic for a sufficient distance ahead to permit the overtaking and passing to be completed without interfering with the operation of any other vehicle approaching from the opposite direction or any other vehicle overtaken.

(2) The overtaking vehicle shall return to an authorized lane of travel as soon as practicable and, if the passing movement uses a lane authorized for vehicles approaching from the opposite direction, before coming within 200 feet of any approaching vehicle.

(b) Grades, curves, intersections, crossings, bridges, etc. --

(1) This subsection does not apply on a one-way roadway.

(2) The driver of a vehicle may not drive on the left side of any roadway if:

(i) The vehicle is approaching the crest of a grade or is on a curve in the highway where the driver's view is obstructed for such a distance as to be dangerous should another vehicle approach from the opposite direction;

(ii) The vehicle is crossing or approaching within 100 feet of any intersection or railroad grade crossing; or

(iii) The driver's view is obstructed while approaching within 100 feet of any bridge, viaduct, or tunnel.

HISTORY: An. Code 1957, art. 66 1/2, § 11-305; 1977, ch. 14, § 2.


No change. You may want to be collateral damage. Courtesy of a motorist that doesn't want to move into the other lane. But I don't.
Your post makes absolutely no sense, and has no bearing on your excuses to not use perfectly ridable shoulders or bike lanes when they're free of any clear and present impediments.
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Old 06-12-15, 06:53 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake
If there was contact during the pass...unless a cyclist moved into his lane, it was by definition an unsafe pass. The officer also has a higher responsibility as a public guardian given a great deal of authority.
It was pretty lame for the officer to blame the cyclists for him hitting them.

Originally Posted by kickstart
Originally Posted by Chris516
Annotated Code of Maryland

(2) The driver of a vehicle may not drive on the left side of any roadway if:
(ii) The vehicle is crossing or approaching within 100 feet of any intersection or railroad grade crossing;
Your post makes absolutely no sense, and has no bearing on your excuses to not use perfectly ridable shoulders or bike lanes when they're free of any clear and present impediments.
Other than being a Maryland law to discuss an incident in Pennsylvania.

However, the point is that the officer was doing an unsafe pass on a busy urban street where he did not have adequate room/visibility to pass. And someone pulled out in front of him while passing so he apparently hit the cyclist. And, then claims that he had room to pass while approaching an uncontrolled intersection.

I'm not sure how he "signaled" the cyclists to go single file. Bullhorn?

Again, it is hard to understand the exact situation at the time of the presumed incident without first hand footage of the incident, or a better view of the street.
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Old 06-12-15, 06:53 PM
  #50  
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Arguing with the "transportation cyclist" crowd is like arguing about religion with a fundamentalist (any stripe). You're just going to get yourself worked up for nothing and give them a chance to prattle about their God given agenda. I won't humor them.
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