Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Helmet standards

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Helmet standards

Old 07-16-15, 09:16 AM
  #1  
XXLHardrock
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Abbotsford BC
Posts: 205

Bikes: Some old CL beater

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 7 Posts
Helmet standards

I crashed my road bike a few weeks ago while wearing a multi sport/ skateboard sorta helmet. Put two huge scrapes in the outer shell and got knocked out for a few seconds. No concussion, just some road rash on me and the bike. Lesson learned. It's also probably time for a new helmet. Here in Canada, at MEC specifically, the lids have two standards. EN 1078 and CSPC or are the one and the same?
Which one do I choose?

Also, the Bell branded helmet at Walmart, which fits remarkably well, is it as good as the others?

Thanks

Last edited by XXLHardrock; 07-16-15 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Spelling
XXLHardrock is offline  
Old 07-16-15, 11:06 AM
  #2  
spare_wheel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: NA
Posts: 4,267

Bikes: NA

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by XXLHardrock View Post
Also, the Bell branded helmet at Walmart, which fits remarkably well, is it as good as the others?
Thanks
Bell is part of the BRG conglomerate that also owns Giro...so yes.
spare_wheel is offline  
Old 07-19-15, 08:19 AM
  #3  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4366 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 31 Posts
EN 1078 is the European standard for bicycle helmets, and CPSC refers to o the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, which regulates bicycle helmets in the USA.

I doubt the standards are identical, but odds are they're fairly similar. In any case, helmets must meet the standards which apply in each country where they're marketed and be stickered as such.

As a practical matter, it doesn't make sense to make different helmets for the various markets, so makers have them conform to the tightest standards and sticker them for all standards so they don't have to worry about which helmet ends up where.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 07-19-15, 01:42 PM
  #4  
Looigi
Senior Member
 
Looigi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
... so makers have them conform to the tightest standards and sticker them for all standards so they don't have to worry about which helmet ends up where.
Good, if possible, but sometimes standards are such that complying with both sets isn't possible. IDK if that's the case here, but it is possible.
Looigi is offline  
Old 07-19-15, 01:43 PM
  #5  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4366 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
Good, if possible, but sometimes standards as such that complying with both sets isn't possible. In this specific case, IDK if that's the case, but it is possible.
If dual compliance isn't achieved, either by choice, or because of mutual exclusivity, then there can only be one sticker. Putting both on would constitute fraud.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

“Never argue with an idiot. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience.”, George Carlin

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 07-19-15, 01:58 PM
  #6  
79pmooney
A Roadie Forever
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 9,592

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2923 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,481 Times in 988 Posts
If you want the best protection, look at the helmets using MIPS technology. It is a step above the CPS and EP standards in that it addresses twisting acceleration to the head inside the helmet; common in bike crashes but not addressed by either by the two agencies or by most helmets.

You will pay to have MIPS and are not likely to find a MIPS helmet at Walmarts for quite a while.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 07-19-15, 02:05 PM
  #7  
AlmostTrick
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 7,385

Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '70 Schwinn Lemonator and More!!

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1539 Post(s)
Liked 905 Times in 488 Posts
I didn't know that one could be knocked out and not suffer at least a mild concussion. Anyway, glad you're ok.

As far as which helmet, I'd say go with the one that fits best, and according to your taste, looks best.
AlmostTrick is offline  
Old 07-20-15, 10:10 PM
  #8  
ben4345
Kitten Legion Master
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 900

Bikes: Fuji silhouette, Dawes SST-aL

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
If you want the best protection, look at the helmets using MIPS technology. It is a step above the CPS and EP standards in that it addresses twisting acceleration to the head inside the helmet; common in bike crashes but not addressed by either by the two agencies or by most helmets.

You will pay to have MIPS and are not likely to find a MIPS helmet at Walmarts for quite a while.

Ben
Thanks for pointing out MIPS, looks like someone is actually trying to improve helmets.
ben4345 is offline  
Old 07-21-15, 11:38 AM
  #9  
youngbull
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i need to start riding with a helmet. i like the snowboard/skateboard style helmets the best
youngbull is offline  
Old 01-16-16, 11:52 PM
  #10  
vol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 8 Posts
Are winter sport helmet suitable (maybe even more protective?) for cycling (weight and vent aside)? They certainly look and feel so.

This Bell is a cycling helmet, this POC is a snow helmet. Which do you think is more protective for cycling?

FYI: Pope Francis Prays For Michael Schumacher's Life in Road Safety Event - Formula 1 News
(maybe next he could pray for cycling safety)
vol is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 08:04 AM
  #11  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,310

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times in 513 Posts
Bicycle Helmet Standards

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 08:16 AM
  #12  
mconlonx 
Str*t*gic *quivoc*tor
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,552
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by XXLHardrock View Post
Also, the Bell branded helmet at Walmart, which fits remarkably well, is it as good as the others?
If it has the testing authority sticker, it meets the minimum standards as well as any other. So yes, from a protection POV, as good as any other. Note: there's no authority testing for how good helmets are, how well they protect, so after meeting min standards, you're on your own as a consumer. "As good as" is also relative -- it will have the minimum protective capabilities of any other helmet, but may not be as light, stylish, have as many features, etc. But if it fits well, that's a lot of the battel, and I'd say go for it.

Originally Posted by vol View Post
Are winter sport helmet suitable (maybe even more protective?) for cycling (weight and vent aside)? They certainly look and feel so.

This Bell is a cycling helmet, this POC is a snow helmet. Which do you think is more protective for cycling?
When I was looking at the POC Backcountry, I really couldn't see that there was much of a difference between the snowsport and cycling versions. While I got nothing to back it up other than pure hunch and unsubstantiated conjecture, I feel that winter sport helmets are probably as protective, and in some cases, maybe more protective than some cycling helmets.

The difference? How they are marketed. Seriously. In the US, a bicycle helmet is defined as a helmet which is marketed as a cycling helmet...
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 11:49 AM
  #13  
CrippledKonaBoy
Banned.
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: south of the Great Lakes
Posts: 195

Bikes: The Kona

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Meh.

An otherwise reputable retailer cannot sell a substandard product like a bike helmet because of the liability. Yes, WM helmets meet minimum standards. Just barely.

If you shop there, get one with the plastic shell bonded to the styro; not all of them are.
CrippledKonaBoy is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 12:08 PM
  #14  
dim
Senior Member
 
dim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 1,704

Bikes: Trek Emonda SL6 .... Miyata One Thousand

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
a stupid question ....

but if bicycle helmets are not safe, why don't the guys who want to wear helmets buy motorbike helmets? .... there are lightweight open face helmets that have very good safety standards

dim is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 12:40 PM
  #15  
erig007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
Posts: 1,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by dim View Post
a stupid question ....

but if bicycle helmets are not safe, why don't the guys who want to wear helmets buy motorbike helmets? .... there are lightweight open face helmets that have very good safety standards

Have you tried one while riding a bike at least?
Here is a clue...little to no venting.
erig007 is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 02:46 PM
  #16  
mconlonx 
Str*t*gic *quivoc*tor
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,552
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7068 Post(s)
Liked 74 Times in 52 Posts
Originally Posted by dim View Post
a stupid question ....
Indeed.
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 05:58 PM
  #17  
vol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
When I was looking at the POC Backcountry, I really couldn't see that there was much of a difference between the snowsport and cycling versions.
POC Ski bike
The pictures show only difference in vents and visors (and maybe aerodynamic) for bike helmets, both of which could only be less safe than the ski helmets, and definitely don't add safety (not sure if there are material or structural differences).
vol is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 07:06 PM
  #18  
Chris0516
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by erig007 View Post
Have you tried one while riding a bike at least?
Here is a clue...little to no venting.
I even dabbled with the thought of a motorcycle helmet, at one point. But as you pointed out, the lack of venting. Another thing is the weight.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 07:22 PM
  #19  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,794

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 190 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4176 Post(s)
Liked 2,072 Times in 1,328 Posts
Originally Posted by XXLHardrock View Post
...got knocked out for a few seconds. No concussion...
Pardon the nitpicking and digression, but... that is a concussion. Unconsciousness from a head blow (rather than vertigo or other non-contact accidents or events) inherently involves a concussion. But not all concussions result in loss of consciousness. And some concussions may involve loss of cognizance while the victim appears to be conscious.

For example, Joe Louis said he remembered almost nothing of his first fight against Max Schmeling after the fourth round knockdown, although Louis continued fighting until the 12th round KO. I've heard other local boxers describe similar experiences, including my brother who remembered nothing of an entire evening after a TKO loss, although he never completely lost consciousness and chatted with us for hours afterward - he just seemed a bit dazed.

Actress Natasha Richardson died of a head injury after a seemingly "minor" fall while skiing - it was a classic example of the lucid interval that sometimes occurs after a potentially serious head injury. Nowadays I'd insist that anyone who'd experienced such an incident be medically checked and monitored for at least 24 hours.

And not all head blows result in concussions or lingering effects. Even as an amateur lightweight to welterweight I'd often spar with much bigger opponents, up to heavyweights, and was never seriously dazed in sparring or competition. No after effects, decades after quitting the sport. Just pure dumb luck of physiology. I doubt any medical research can explain why guys like George Foreman retain their clarity and wit after years of hard blows to the head, while many boxers suffered from dementia pugilistica (both Quarry brothers, Mike and Jerry; Meldrick Taylor; Wilfred Benitez, who's been in a nursing home for years after showing signs of dementia in his early 20s). Only fairly recently has the syndrome received any serious attention, and even then most of the focus is on football players like Junior Seau, and to a lesser extent on school kids playing soccer, etc.

The only way to determine the effects of concussion (in addition to MRIs, CT scans, etc.) is a battery of tests following a head knock to evaluate reflexes, etc. Hardly anyone bothers with that. Most folks shrug it off and claim they're fine. That's why the lucid interval is potentially so dangerous - I've noticed many folks who've been briefly unconscious from head blows are irritable and refuse medical evaluation. Ironically, that irritability and irrational refusal of medical evaluation should be considered a warning sign. But even hospitals and ERs are guilty of failing to recognize the potential danger. Too often I've seen disabled older folks I know discharged much too quickly after falls and concussions, without any follow through checkups or ensuring the patients have family, friends, neighbors or caregivers available to keep an eye on them.

Depression is among the most common lingering after effect of a concussion. Many boxers I know described suffering depression immediately after a grueling bout involving many head blows - even when they won the fight, they lost the war. And many suffer years of depression and anger, and attempt self-medication with alcohol and drugs. Diagnosis and causality are difficult because some of these folks were, frankly, already jackasses before any sports related issues. But I've personally known some boxers who were really decent, healthy, easy going fellows when they were younger, and struggled later after knockouts and repeated head blows as their reflexes and defenses slowed.

That's why bicyclists and anyone at greater risk of blows to the noggin should have prepared a plan in advance for family and/or friends to check up on potential concussion victims for at least 24 hours and be alert to any unusual changes in behavior, communication oddities, sudden mood swings, irritability, increased consumption of alcohol or other substances, and other compensatory behaviors.
canklecat is offline  
Old 01-17-16, 07:43 PM
  #20  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 12,794

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 190 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4176 Post(s)
Liked 2,072 Times in 1,328 Posts
Originally Posted by dim View Post
a stupid question ....

but if bicycle helmets are not safe, why don't the guys who want to wear helmets buy motorbike helmets? .... there are lightweight open face helmets that have very good safety standards
It's not a stupid question. I used to ride motorcycles and briefly used a minimal DOT compliant half helmet. At the time I was a journalist covering the police and fire/emergency beat and saw too many deaths and serious injuries that might have been avoided by better helmets. Seeing photos of the horrific injuries - jaws and faces abraded away by high speed skids, skull fractures from striking curbs - was enough to prompt me to upgrade to a Snell compliant full face helmet.

The main problem, as others noted, is ventilation. Even riding a motorcycle in the 100F Texas summer heat isn't nearly as hot as riding a bike on an 80 degree day. There are helmets with cooling systems but they're very expensive, especially for the active cooling systems (passive air flow enhancement wouldn't be effective at most slower bicycle speeds). And motorcycle helmets are usually overkill for average bicycling speeds. Abrasion resistance isn't nearly comparable, unless the bicyclist spends a lot of time bombing downhill at 50 mph, or drafting vehicles.

I've been wearing a Bell Solar helmet, a very minimal compromise that was perfect back in the summer - it's no more uncomfortable than wearing my boonie hat or even riding bareheaded, so I don't hesitate to wear it. But I'm planning to get a sturdier helmet for cooler days and nighttime wear. I'd like something with a bit more abrasion resistance for occasions when I scrape beneath low hanging tree limbs, that sort of thing. The Bell Solar is a very thin sheet of plastic bonded to, essentially, styrofoam, so it's not as abrasion resistant as I'd like.
canklecat is offline  
Old 01-18-16, 02:13 PM
  #21  
erig007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 6367 km away from the center of the Earth
Posts: 1,666
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
But I'm planning to get a sturdier helmet for cooler days and nighttime wear. I'd like something with a bit more abrasion resistance for occasions when I scrape beneath low hanging tree limbs, that sort of thing. The Bell Solar is a very thin sheet of plastic bonded to, essentially, styrofoam, so it's not as abrasion resistant as I'd like.
A reusable helmet maybe
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/h...elmet-safety#/
erig007 is offline  
Old 01-29-16, 05:49 PM
  #22  
vol
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 8 Posts
One possible problem with using ski helmet for cycling which I'm not sure if it is a problem: would the ear covering with padding affect hearing enough to be of a concern or not?
vol is offline  
Old 01-29-16, 07:39 PM
  #23  
mrodgers
Senior Member
 
mrodgers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Western PA
Posts: 1,636

Bikes: 2014 Giant Escape 1

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 13 Posts
The typical bicycle helmet is made out of expanded polystyrene. As a manufacturer of expanded plastic foams, when talking polystyrene, the foam is foam. It's all essentially the same in bicycle helmets. The more foam you have and the thicker the foam, the more impact absorption it has. All the fancy stuff in a bicycle helmet is for ventilation, weight, and looks. More ventilation or less weight means less foam. Less foam means less impact absorption. Cheap helmets like a Bell at Walmart have a lot more foam in it than the expensive ones.
mrodgers is offline  
Old 01-30-16, 01:50 AM
  #24  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,310

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times in 513 Posts
Another issue with helmets is "Rotational Head Injury" (RHI). This is when the helmet violently turns the head. It happens more often the less round a helmet is ie. the more aero the helmet the greater tha chanve of an RHI.

Btw, I had a helmet that fell off the handlebar of my non-moving bicycle and the helmet broke.

Bicycle Helmet Standards

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 01-30-16, 08:31 AM
  #25  
Dahon.Steve
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 257 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by vol View Post
Are winter sport helmet suitable (maybe even more protective?) for cycling (weight and vent aside)? They certainly look and feel so.

This Bell is a cycling helmet, this POC is a snow helmet. Which do you think is more protective for cycling?

FYI: Pope Francis Prays For Michael Schumacher's Life in Road Safety Event - Formula 1 News
(maybe next he could pray for cycling safety)
I used to enjoy watching Michael Schmacher in F1 years ago for he is considered the best ever. However his luck ran out and he's basically paralyzed and cannot talk. His family spends tens of millions a year in around the clock care. There are a couple of lessons we should all learn from his accident.

1. Don't take unnecessary risks even with a helmet -- Schumacher was skiing full speed down a mountain and instead of going around a rocky section, went through it to film a video.

2. Any object attached to a helmet may compromise it during a crash --- Schumacher had attached a camera and was filming his trip. Upon impact, experts noticed the camera dug into the helmet splitting it in two.
Dahon.Steve is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.