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Bicycle Cops on the sidewalk

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Bicycle Cops on the sidewalk

Old 04-29-05, 02:32 PM
  #1  
Crashtest
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Last week I saw a group of about 20 bike Cops getting some instruction, I believe, in safety, proper cycling technique, riding in traffic and so on.

Today, I saw 2 bike cops riding on the sidwalk. I was very surprised to see this. They were friendly, waved hello and so on. I was tempted to follow them for a while to see how they handled stop signs and traffic lights, but they were headed in the wrong direction.

I have also seen bike cops riding across a crosswalk, and on the side facing traffic as well. This is very dangerous behavior because a driver in the cross street waiting to make a right will be looking the other way to see when it's safe to pull out. The one time I was hit by a car I was doing this same bonehead maneuver, so I know what can happen.

Has anyone else seen cycle cops riding in blatantly improper and illegal fashion? Is anyone as surprised by this as I am?
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Old 04-29-05, 02:55 PM
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Not much different from the way they drive cars around here...
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Old 04-29-05, 03:07 PM
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I've seen bonehead bike cops riding unsafely in quite a few cities I've spent time in, but I can't say that seeing it surprises me. Cops can be just as stupid as the rest of the population (if not more!).
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Old 04-29-05, 03:19 PM
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Actually most cities allow cops to ride their bikes on sidewalks as needed to perform their duties. Most states do allow sidewalk riding, even though it is not the "safest" (in quotes to appease those that feel it is the safest) method. Now whether just cruising along the sidewalk is part of their duties, well.
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Old 04-29-05, 03:21 PM
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When I ride a bike it is for transportation - I am going somewhere. Cops may be riding just to be in a place and to be seen, which may make the side walk the best place to be.
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Old 04-29-05, 11:35 PM
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I ride my patrol bike every where in an effort to be seen as well as an effort to prevent and or interupt crime. I do not cycle to go places generally. The bike is a tool to perform my job.

I was trained in proper road techniques when intransit from one patrol area to another. I also was trained in methods to jump curbs onto sidewalks, ride up and down stairs, jump off sidewalks and other obstacles as well as slow speed maneuvers for alleys and such. Such interesting techniques as how to fall, how to throw the bike at offenders, how to use it as both an offensive and defensive weapon as needed. Lots more as well.

Again the bike is a tool for bike cops moreso than transportation.

I often ride on sidewalks, grassy lots, cut through parking lots, cut through golf courses and go places a patrol car cannot. I also ride on the road in a proper vehicular manner. Depends on the needs of the service at the time of the activity.

When I commute to work on a bicycle I tend to ride in a vehicular manner when I believe it is the safest option. There are times when I do not think it is the safest option. Usually around midnight on weekends on busy roads where the general car population is speeding around 10 to 20 miles faster than the speed limit and my two blinkies, reflective vest and cute little helmet seem to be just a hair short of insignificant. The sidewalk gets a workout then as well as my skills at going slow and being observant.

The new Halogen Stinger light I rigged up to the handlebars sure comes in handy then.

Pedal pig to the rescue!
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Old 04-29-05, 11:58 PM
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Standing outside of work in downtown mpls i seen one cop ride up to another bike cop grab his handcuffs off of his belt and ride away with them laughing!

and I have always kind of wanted to try pulling that stunt
hilarious!

BTW the stinger flashlight rules! but its battery life is pretty short to use as a bike light
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Old 04-30-05, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by rattking
Standing outside of work in downtown mpls i seen one cop ride up to another bike cop grab his handcuffs off of his belt and ride away with them laughing!

and I have always kind of wanted to try pulling that stunt
hilarious!

BTW the stinger flashlight rules! but its battery life is pretty short to use as a bike light
True the stiger HP I rigged on the bike has about a 1 hour run time but my commute home is only about thirty minutes and the stinger is used as needed not as the run light. I have an LED for that.

I have to try that handcuff trick but our cases are closed flap types. Maybe take their baton...
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Old 04-30-05, 07:03 AM
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FotoTomas makes a good point--bike cops cycle for different reasons than the rest of us. Most importantly, they cycle so that they can be closer to the people they are patrolling. Being on the sidewalk makes it easier for them to look into shop windows, and to keep an eye on pedestrians. I'm sure FotoTomas could come up with a longer list of examples.

As long as the bike cops go at a reasonable speed, they are perhaps the only type of cyclists who should be on the sidewalk.
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Old 04-30-05, 01:14 PM
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Riding on the sidewalk is understandable. Riding against traffic isn't. It's illegal and sets a bad precedent. It's not bad enough we have to deal with those who are ignorant of the law now we have to deal with those charged with enforcing it?
Bear in mind I'm not talking about actions taken in the course of responding to an emergency or apprehending a suspect but in the course of "being a visual presence". Visible is great, just do it with in the law the rest of us have to abide by
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Old 04-30-05, 01:30 PM
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Riding against traffic scares me and short of an emergency I will not do it. The exception to this rule is again at night on the major roads where crossing is deemed more hazardouse at certain locations. As a result I tend to ride the sidewalk and depending on the traffic will stay on the opposite side to get to a better defined crossing location near the house with traffic lights.
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Old 04-30-05, 01:51 PM
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Speaking of using a bike as an offensive weapon.. A good friend of mine grew up on a very bad neighborhood, and learned very young a technique for protecting yourself while on a bike. You jump up and back, so you end up behind the bike, and pull the bike up onto the back wheel (that is sort of one big motion, like popping a wheely and jumping off at the same time), then you push the rear wheel forward, and lunge ahead, wildly swerving the bike. The sight of the whirling chainrings at crotch height and the face height front wheel whipping around is pretty scary. I'm not very good at it (I don't really have to be), but he 'demonstrated' it on me once and I about wet my pants.

Police do have a different job to do, and so sometimes are in the right doing something that we wouldn't normally do. However, whenever practical it seems that the cops should use proper technique and follow the laws, if only to be a good example for everyone else. I think that in general they do, but some could be better about it...

peace,
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Old 05-01-05, 12:43 AM
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those arogant cops... don't get me started.
But suffice it to say, here in Honolulu, the cops are mostly grade-a pigs. And the bike cops are no better. They do the exact same thing. They take up the bike lane and refuse to yield when they're going about four miles an hour. They ride on busy downtown sidewalks going the wrong way and never signal, just because they want to (and I suspect it's to abuse their power). If I have to ride in the street, so do they UNLESS they're doing something urgent, not just patroling. If they have to ride on the sidewalk, they're just bad cyclists. Crikies, it's dangerous so what? Get off your bike and walk just like I have to.
I find it such an absurd thing that people get tickets from bike cops for riding their bikes on the sidewalk, while the bike cop is riding on the sidewal.

And as for this comment: "As long as the bike cops go at a reasonable speed, they are perhaps the only type of cyclists who should be on the sidewalk"
why? Because they are better cyclists than the rest of us? No. I ride my bike everyday at least five hours a day in busy traffic working. Because they're more concerned with public safety? No. Just look at rodney king and the like. Because they've got a badge? What does that mean? Because they've been trained? Perhaps; then why don't we all get trained to ride safely on sidewalks? Issue licences to ride safely on the sidewalk.

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Old 05-01-05, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 2mtr
And as for this comment: "As long as the bike cops go at a reasonable speed, they are perhaps the only type of cyclists who should be on the sidewalk"
why? Because they are better cyclists than the rest of us? No. I ride my bike everyday at least five hours a day in busy traffic working. Because they're more concerned with public safety? No. Just look at rodney king and the like. Because they've got a badge? What does that mean? Because they've been trained? Perhaps; then why don't we all get trained to ride safely on sidewalks? Issue licences to ride safely on the sidewalk.
If I were a shopkeeper in an area with a few recent robberies, I'd be happy to see a cop ride by on the sidewalk at 5-8 mph and look into my shop. Yes, some cops can be abusive (I recently started a thread on this), but that doesn't mean we can't let them do their job when they really are doing their job.

Last edited by Daily Commute; 05-01-05 at 07:00 AM.
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Old 05-01-05, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Daily Commute
If I were a shopkeeper in an area with a few recent robberies, I'd be happy to see a cop ride by on the sidewalk at 5-8 mph and look into my shop. Yes, some cops can be abusive (I recently started a thread on this), but that doesn't mean we can't let them do their job when they really are doing their job.
Well I'm actually pro cop, and I like to see these guys around on bikes. I just thought it was a little strange that the few times I've seen them, they were doing something that wasn't quite legal or safe. When I saw the group of 20 or so bike cops having a training session, I assumed that it would be training in how to ride in traffic and so forth. I actually have no way of knowing what was going on - the point of the training may have been more along the lines of what places to patrol. Possibly there is no real training in bike handling and safety. Anyhow, I didn't mean to start a cop-bashing thread.
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Old 05-01-05, 01:57 PM
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www.ipmba.org

www.leba.org

Good training from cops for cops on mountain bike patrol.

I am so sorry that 2mtr is in such foul mood when he discusses cops. I guess "surly messenger" is appropriate.

I too have met some real A-hole cops. On the otherhand they were a very small minority. Whatever...life is good and I am about to head out on the bike again.
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Old 05-01-05, 07:08 PM
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Foul mood? I don't believe that's an apt description. I'd say a regular guy fed up with the establishment taking liberites from me when there's no reason. I see a problem in my society and I point it out. It's a shame we're so cowed to authority in this country that we blindly accept their draconian edicts.
DailyCommute didn't really answer the question. An appeal to fear was introduced.
My point still stands: So a cop is scared of traffic. So what? Everyone's scared of traffic at one point or another. If everyone else is forced to deal with it, so should they unless there's a very good reason to allow them to break the laws. Either deal with it get off your bike and walk. A cop is no more special than I am. I find it absurd that the lives of police are valued over mine.
And if eight miles an hour is safe on a sidewalk, I'm wondering why everyone isn't given that choice, especially when some of us are working just like those cops. I personally don't think eight miles an hour is safe on a sidewalk. Especially in a business district.
I say, if a cop is patroling, have him walk until he needs his bike. Then they should get on their bikes to pursue or whatever.
You don't see traffic cops patroling at eighty miles an hour in a 25 zone, do you? And for good reason.
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Old 05-01-05, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 2mtr
And if eight miles an hour is safe on a sidewalk, I'm wondering why everyone isn't given that choice, especially when some of us are working just like those cops. I personally don't think eight miles an hour is safe on a sidewalk. Especially in a business district.
I ride on business district on the sidewalk, you can do that in some states, like here in Wisconsin. If you don't like it fight to change it. Also if you can't go 8mph on the side walk safty you need work on it, I go 15mph, and I have not killed anyone yet.

GEEK
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Old 05-01-05, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by geeklpc1985
I ride on business district on the sidewalk, you can do that in some states, like here in Wisconsin. If you don't like it fight to change it. Also if you can't go 8mph on the side walk safty you need work on it, I go 15mph, and I have not killed anyone yet.

GEEK
If you're riding that fast get the hell off the sidewalk. At those speeds you're putting others at risk
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Old 05-01-05, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by FotoTomas
Good training from cops for cops on mountain bike patrol.
Interesting websites. I enjoyed reading all the advantages of bicycles for police work.

As I always say, the bicycle is a superior vehicle.

One of the major advantages of a bike is that it can be ridden almost anywhere.

The mounted police are cool, too, and I see quite a few of those, but they have some disadvantages:
  • they're hardly as inconspicuous as a bike cop can be.
  • they're more intimidating and less approachable.
  • it's a lot tougher to transport a horse than a bike.
  • horses sometimes leave a mess.

As far as the legality goes, riding on the sidewalk shouldn't be illegal for anybody. There's nothing inherently dangerous about it. A speed limit for sidewalk riding might be a good idea but laws that make it generally illegal are just anti-bike, plain and simple.

Of all the cops I've seen riding on sidewalks, and I see them fairly frequently, I've never seen any riding in a dangerous manner or setting a bad example.

As far as non-cops go, I see much more dangerous riding practices on the road (wrong-way riding, running red lights, riding between cars, etc.) than I ever see on the sidewalk. Most of the dangerous riding I see on sidewalks is done by kids while much of the dangeous street riding I see is done by adults.
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Old 05-03-05, 08:26 PM
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Just for the sake of argument I logged some interesting facts from the last couple of days of patrol.

My average speed during the patrol was 5 miles per hour. Very rarely did I go over 6. When riding from one end to another on a MUP I averaged 10MPH over the hour. When on the path I was on the right and when on the road I was "VC". Most of the patrol however had me in parking lots, sidewalks, behind industrial buildings in alleys or truck routes/loading docks.

When I travel to a patrol area on the bike I average about 11MPH. I have a Specialized Rockhopper Mtn Bike that has no idea what "fast" means. When huling @$$ on the road I top out at 22MPH. Downhill will get me to 26/27. Not a lot of hills in Central Florida. On patrol however I am not there to ride anywhere quickly but instead to be there if needed. I accomplish this by SLOWLY cruising about in plain sight around the people and vehicles using all of the senses that a Car tends to bottle up. I have a patrol zone that is somewhat limited in area so the need to travel distance on the road is not necessary.

2mtr has problems with bike cops on the sidewalk and I gather where he is that the sidewalk is against the law. I can understand his displeasure but I also believe that he is a bit over the top. Limiting his anger to his local cops is one thing if justified but to disparage us all is wrong. It is not against the law in my jurisdiction to ride the sidewalk and I have never even tried to write someone up for it. There is sections of private property (shopping centers) with posted restrictions and I think DownTown Orlando has some but not my area. Then again we have a plethora of small agencies around the bigger ones and each one has different city and government ordinances, rules and regulations.

If I were to be required to ride the street like a car at all times while on patrol then most of my effectiveness on a bike would be lost. As it is I spend most of my duty time a lot closer to the public. At about 5 mph.
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Old 05-03-05, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by rattking
Standing outside of work in downtown mpls i seen one cop ride up to another bike cop grab his handcuffs off of his belt and ride away with them laughing!

and I have always kind of wanted to try pulling that stunt
hilarious!

BTW the stinger flashlight rules! but its battery life is pretty short to use as a bike light
I tried that stunt yesterday with the portable radio. I gave it back after 5 minutes! Glad he did not have the remote mike like mine does.
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Old 05-04-05, 12:24 AM
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Call 'em on it. If you don't want to confront them directly, just call the local police department and tell them what you saw and remind them to tell riders about the rules of the road for cyclists.

Koffee
 
Old 05-04-05, 10:31 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by koffee brown
Call 'em on it. If you don't want to confront them directly, just call the local police department and tell them what you saw and remind them to tell riders about the rules of the road for cyclists.

Koffee
they are not cyclist. they are cops. their reason for being out on bikes is not the same as most others....

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Old 05-04-05, 03:14 PM
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Exactly! Complaining on them for being on sidewalks while on patrol is a ridiculous idea. They are out there for our protection. For years people complained that the police were removed from the public by being almost exclusively in patrol cars; where they were seemingly out of touch and impersonal. Bicycle cops are some of the most approachable patrol officers out there and it is a great way to conduct community policing. Police on bikes not only deter crime, but give the store and home owners someone they can easily talk to if they have a question or problem. People really need something better to complain about. Chill and be glad they are there.

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