noisebeam

I found a great way to work, 6mi on the freeway access road, low traffic volume, WOL, nice landscaping, good road surface, no driveways, fewer high speed road left turns, minimal side streets....

BUT - dealing with traffic coming off the freeway ramp is stressful. The way it is designed is that I on the access road have several large yield signs with addtional signs that say 'yield to offramp traffic'. Now this offramp traffic is coming off at 55mph+ in a steady stream and 80% of it seems to be making a right turn, so they merge fast across the 3 lanes to get into the right turn lane. Of course I am going straight.

Now the normal advice is to stick my left hand out and get a driver to yield. But this doesn't work as I clearly am the one that is supposed to yield by law.

Well, the alternative is to wait for a gap and merge into it, like a car would, but what happens is if I even see a gap big enough to get into, my the time I am in the 'merging area' a car at 55mph has already appeared (sight lines are short) and does not want to yield to me. The reasons is that folks coming of the freeway feel completely entitled to not yielding as these instersections have been a situation since the freeway was built and the traffic engineering later put up addtional signs making it clear that access road must yield and offramp drivers make a point to take that right of way, even stubbornly.

I so desperately want to use this road as it is otherwise far more pleasant (and faster) than the multilane high speed arterial roads I otherwise use, but I worry about these offramp situations (6 of them)

Al

Hawkear

Can you draw a picture? I'm not sure exactly what it is you're describing.

kf5nd

Tough situation. What is time of day, lighting situation?

noisebeam

Try this (zoom in a bit):
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=price+...7617&t=k&hl=en

I am heading southbound (on the left side freeway access road), note there are two right turn lanes, so I need to merge left to stay in the go straight lane (toward west)

Al

noisebeam

Morning after sunrise.

Its managable, but I worry that someone at high speed coming up from behind and to my left may not consider me.

Al

supcom

It is unreasonable to expect high speed traffic coming off the freeway to yield to you. As the sign indicates, you have to yield to it. This may mean a long wait to proceed safely. If it's unsafe, then you may need to find an alternate route that avoids this stretch.

noisebeam

I hear ya, but this was an alternate route I am exploring to avoid even more difficult intersections. Interestingly this access road has a bike lane that ends just where the merges starts and continues just after the merges, but before the intersection. Also hen the freeway was first built the yield signs were reversed, but offramp traffic ignored them so they switched it the other way.

Also note that the only southbound exit from my neighborhood requires that I get on the freeway access road and deal with at least one of these merges.

Al

kf5nd

I agree. They may just not have the time to react, even if they want to yield. You can't change reaction time by an act of the state legislature.

kf5nd

Can you ride off-road between where the bike lane ends and where it begins again?

Erick L

I'm not sure I understand. You're riding on the right lane on the access road and you have to yield to traffic coming off the freeway and entering your road, three lanes to your left?

Helmet Head

Disagree. The sign indicates that the traffic off the freeway has the right-of-way. That doesn't mean you can't request that they yield their right-of-way to you (it never hurts to ask...).

I would look back and signal until someone did yield the right-of-way to me, then merge (with a smile and a wave).

Serge

noisebeam

Kind of, but the issue is that the large majority of exiting traffic is turning right, so they swoop off the ramp across those three lanes. At the same time I need to merge left by one lane so I am not in a right turn only lane.
Al

Helmet Head

By "left side freeway access road" do you mean east or west side of the north/south freeway?

noisebeam

I am heading south on the west side of the freeway. If you scroll this image of the freeway north or south you will find similar intersections exactly 1mi apart.

I gotta tell ya, riding on this lightly traveled access road is so fantastic, that if I can learn to safely deal with these intersections each mile I will be very happy.

Al

noisebeam

Picture:



My path is the yellow line
Off ramp traffic is the magenta
The blue line is a sound barrier wall
The green dot is where I need to be to get a clear view of traffic on the on ramp.

Al

AndrewP

It seems to me that you have to give way to the exiting freeway traffic at the freeway exit which is quite a way before the R turn on your road. You should then take your place in the middle of the curb lane as you pass the exit, and then move over to the R side of the next lane half way between the freeway exit and the R turn. A glasses mount mirror would make this easier and maybe a sideways mounted flag on your carrier.

Erick L

Thanks for the precision. I don't get why you (or anyone on the access road) should have to "yield to offramp traffic" though. It just seems silly. Since when people on a road have to yield to traffic entering that road?

For your right-turning traffic problem, all I can think of is be careful and alert. Keep going straight in your lane. If it your lane that becomes the right-turn lane, make your way on the lane that goes straight when safe.

Well, easier said than done. I ride on a road like this and I hate it, but for different reasons. There are a few intersections but only one similar to yours. I try to pace myself so when I get there I have more energy to keep up with traffic.

sggoodri

How do pedestrians travel straight, following the same route that you do? Are there pedestrian accommodations for making it across these right-turn lanes? Do these lanes of traffic ever get stopped by a signal?

It seems like any driver, especially the driver of a slow truck, will face difficulty making this movement. You may be faced with waiting a long time for a gap adequate for the movement to be made all at once (even Forester says that with fast traffic in multiple lanes to merge across, crossing all at once to the destination lane when an adequate gap appears is often best), or trying to negotiate with traffic that has slowed a bit closer to the intersection. Then there is the possibility of crossing as a pedestrian, if the intersection has been properly designed.

You seem to imply that sight lines/distances are not adequate to cross the traffic safely at the yield point. This problem will affect other drivers as well. If this could be improved by an engineering change, I would certainly complain to the DOT about it. And there is no need for you to identify what kind of vehicle you are operating.

I dislike right-turn slip lanes and multiple right-turn lane installations for all of the reasons you describe.

sggoodri

Is the access road one-way? If so, would using the left side of the left lane of the access road give you better sight lines for checking the traffic gap?

noisebeam

When the freeway was first built a few years ago off ramp traffic had the yield, but there were lots of accidents because they didn't yield so they reversed the right of way.

Al

noisebeam

Pedestrians would be on the sidewalk and then cross on the x-walk that is offset away from the intersection. But there are zero pedestrians, seriously. I don't even think there is a controlled x-walk, if a ped you would walk on green light and hope.
I could get off bike and get on sidewalk and walk across, but right turners from two lanes are all flying around the right turn when it is green (and I would walk). I think it would be safer to actually be in the travel lanes where I can be seen.

I appreciate the comments, I do think it is a manageable intersection - I am playing out the concerns here to stimulate ideas, but it is also not as drastically dangerous as it may come across as. I was mainly concerned as I have so many signs telling me I must yield that it would legally put be liable for any incident and the fact I am relying on cars to not be stubborn about their legal right of way.

It is true it is confusing in a car as well, when does the yield occur? (i.e. you slow, see a gap, then startup and in the meantime a fast car comes and is suddenly side by side you, if you are seveal inches ahead do you have right of way or not)

Al

noisebeam

It is one way and contrary to what you see in the image it now narrows to one lane at yield point (left lane of access road artificially ends with barriers put up) this change was made only a few months ago. Come to think of it obviously traffic engineering is playing around with these intersetions as they are problem areas for cars as well. Sight lines from the left lane would have been even worse.

Al

jabowker

I'm trying to think through a senario along sqqoodri's lines. Something like handling it similiar to the situation in BigMikePowel's first photo in his Bike Lanes thread.

One approach would be: Since access roads are one way, the law allows you to move to the left side of the road. If you move to the left before the off-ramp you could stop, check traffic and cross more diagonally. The problem remaining would be that you are then on the left after the ramp but not intending to turn left at the next intersection.

It seems that maybe applying the same idea to only the right turn lane in a pinch would be better. When the traffic is too dense or inconsiderate to allow you to merge smoothly and comfortably on the fly, stop at the start of the turn lane and watch for break to cut across quickly to the right side of the right most through lane.

The only other option I see at the moment is to switch to pedestrian mode. But if you are pushed that far I'm thinking you are only delaying the inevitable problems of crossing the impatient right turning traffic. Maybe even adding to the problems by having to deal with more traffic flows at once.

John E

Suppose you were to hug the curb and to turn right at the intersection. Is there a convenient opportunity for a U-turn (even a 3-part one) to put you back on the desired trajectory, i.e., going straight by turning right, u-turn, then turning right again or turning left by turning right followed by a u-turn?

John E

I know Serge thinks intersections such as the one you cite are entertaining, but they scare the cr@p out of me. You can negotiate all you want with one motor vehicle, but how about the folks in the adjacent lanes?

In my experience, freeway access ramps consistently present the greatest traffic engineering nightmares to bicyclists, and they are even worse for pedestrians.