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Wondering how this will end up..

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Wondering how this will end up..

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Old 02-20-16, 03:08 PM
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Wondering how this will end up..

Appears from early info they were doing exactly what they were supposed to do.

4 people on bicycles hit by vehicle in Johnston County | WNCN
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Old 02-20-16, 03:43 PM
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Lots of carnage. They don't mention the condition of the riders, but I hope they are all ok. Also lacking is the description of the driver, vehicle, or intoxication.

It appears to have happened on a gentle curve, but with good daytime visibility. Narrow shoulder, with some encroachment of gravel drives onto the roadway.

I think this one will have to be filed under Sxxx happens.
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Old 02-20-16, 05:32 PM
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Elderly driver?
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Old 02-20-16, 06:38 PM
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Driver will either be flayed or drawn and quartered, at least here in A&S utopia.
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Old 02-20-16, 06:59 PM
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I don't get it. Nice clear afternoon, good sight lines - why did she not see them.

Here's the google street level The up a hill and around a curve is a bit of an overstatement but as the road is posted at 55 (and with drivers exceeding it) I can see that drivers can be over their thresholds of responsible control.

Hope the cyclists are ok. It was such a nice springlike day here to have something like this happen.

Comments on the news page are not the typical drivel we usually see.
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Old 02-20-16, 08:32 PM
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This article says the injuries were not life threatening. That is good news.
Four bicyclists struck by vehicle in Johnston County :: WRAL.com
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Old 02-20-16, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
Driver will either be flayed or drawn and quartered, at least here in A&S utopia.
In this case from what we can see, I can't say that would be unjustified.
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Old 02-20-16, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
In this case from what we can see, I can't say that would be unjustified.
Sure, Virtually no facts to go on, makes perfect sense to suggest that torturing the drive is appropriate.
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Old 02-20-16, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jhazel View Post
This article says the injuries were not life threatening. That is good news.
Four bicyclists struck by vehicle in Johnston County :: WRAL.com
Authorities said the Donnie Marie Williams, 50, was traveling north on Massengill Pond Road near Sue Drive when she approached and struck the bicyclists from the rear.

Williams' daughter, Tiffany McElveen, said her mother was driving up a hill and around a corner when she noticed the bicyclists, and another car in the opposite direction. According to McElveen, Williams attempted to avoid the incoming vehicle and the bicyclists.

"She panicked; she didn't know what to do," McElveen said. "She didn't now whether to go over and hit the other car, or try to miss the bicyclists. She just had no idea what to do. She actually stopped in the middle of the road and pulled over to get out of the road, and then she ran back. When I got here she was over there in the ditch crying."
Middle aged, not elderly, not a teenager, so she should have had adequate driving experience.

Unfortunately, this was a very narrow road.

Often a car can squeeze past a cyclist/group of cyclists, and not hit the oncoming car, assuming the bikes are far enough to the right. The first report said they were riding to the right.

A witness told WNCN that he saw the bicycle riders before the crash and that they were riding in a single-file line along the white line on the right side of the road.
If unable to stop, she might have been able to avoid the cyclists by hitting the ditch, but she could easily have lost control of the car, and had a worse accident.

What I'm not seeing are black strips down the middle of the road. ABS? Bad camera angle?

Obviously she was over driving her visibility.
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Old 02-20-16, 10:11 PM
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Williams' daughter, Tiffany McElveen, said her mother was driving up a hill and around a corner when she noticed the bicyclists, and another car in the opposite direction. According to McElveen, Williams attempted to avoid the incoming vehicle and the bicyclists.
"She panicked; she didn't know what to do," McElveen said.

She forgot how to use the brake pedal? In one of the articles it said that the 4 cyclists were riding single file.
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Old 02-20-16, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit View Post
Sure, Virtually no facts to go on, makes perfect sense to suggest that torturing the drive is appropriate.
I was of course assuming the suggestion of torture was hyperbole. Although were it not it would be quite amusingly ironic.

As far as facts go, we do know

"she approached four bicyclists from the rear, striking them. “The collision resulted in all four being ejected,” said Lt. Jeff Gordon of the NC Highway Patrol."

Both law and logic operate with a pretty strong assumption that when you approach another vehicle from the rear and strike it, you are at fault.

"Troopers are continuing their investigation into this case, however charges are expected, Gordon said."

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Old 02-20-16, 10:36 PM
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If that story is accurate, she is a grossly incompetent driver.
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Old 02-20-16, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bronco71 View Post
If that story is accurate, she is a grossly incompetent driver.
The article stated her daughter said: "A car was passing in the other direction and she panicked."

The driver should have not been driving. Obviously she was emotionally unstable. I have to wonder... if the driver knew she wasn't fit to be driving... but felt compelled to do so anyway.
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Old 02-20-16, 11:02 PM
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It would appear the driver probably crossed over the centerline to allow clearance for the bikes but due to the curve, did not have enough sight line for oncoming traffic. She then did not have enough room pull back into her own lane without trashing the bicycles. The alternative would likely have been a head-on collision.
Poor judgment, regardless.
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Old 02-20-16, 11:48 PM
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I'm having finding the exact location on Google Maps, but it seems to be somewhere around this corner.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4836...8i6656!6m1!1e1

There is just nothing there. No cresting a steep hill. No sharp corners.

Unless, they have the wrong road in the stories, as I can't seem to match the photos.

Maybe the driver didn't realize she could slow down to be able to safely pass the bicycles??? Something is very odd indeed.
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Old 02-21-16, 12:06 AM
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A couple more similar, but subtly different stories.
Cyclists in hospital after being hit by car in Angier | abc11.com
4 bicyclists seriously hurt after being hit by car in Johnston County | NCReview ? We Investigate You Decide

So, Tiffany who apparently talked to reporters was not a witness to the events, but was recounting a second-hand story.

It sounds like what Student Biker suggested, she attempted to do an unsafe pass, and when she couldn't clear the cyclists, she deliberately directed her course into the bikes.

A head-on collision would be bad.

There aren't a lot of good alternatives, other than simply not doing an unsafe pass at an uncontrollable speed.
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Old 02-21-16, 06:43 AM
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The frightening part as a rider is this is just the sort of quiet country road I tend to feel safest on. I guess when you get us dumb humans involved, crazy stuff starts happening and there isn't much that can be done about it. Actually, looking at the humanity around me every day and sometimes in the mirror, it's a wonder it doesn't happen more.
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Old 02-21-16, 06:56 AM
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The first thing I see is a double yellow line, IMO, the driver wasn't about to cross it and misjudged the distance available or didn't give a rats behind.
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Old 02-21-16, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
The article stated her daughter said: "A car was passing in the other direction and she panicked."

The driver should have not been driving. Obviously she was emotionally unstable. I have to wonder... if the driver knew she wasn't fit to be driving... but felt compelled to do so anyway.
Stellar armchair psychology. And by that I mean "not."
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Old 02-21-16, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Student Biker View Post
Poor judgment, regardless.
But here's the gist of it as I see it: After making the poor decision to attempt a pass, Ms. Williams could have strongly applied the brakes and aborted when she saw the oncoming car. And it's possible that the oncoming driver could have stopped in time, as well. Thus, maybe the accident would have been avoided - with stained pants all around, no life-changing injuries, and embarrassment & a big ass chewing for Ms. Williams. But no, cyclists be damned, that's not what happened!

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Old 02-21-16, 01:46 PM
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But were they wearing helmets?
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Old 02-21-16, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Student Biker View Post
It would appear the driver probably crossed over the centerline to allow clearance for the bikes but due to the curve, did not have enough sight line for oncoming traffic. She then did not have enough room pull back into her own lane without trashing the bicycles. The alternative would likely have been a head-on collision.
Poor judgment, regardless.
Poor judgment, and the lack of driving skills to mitigate it.

I don't obsess over every possible incident like some do, but the issues associated with overtaking groups are one of the reasons why I don't like riding in them, bikes or motorcycles.
There's no trick, or technique that will prevent a determined or stupid person from making an ill considered pass, and being in a group limits ones ability to observe, and react.
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Old 02-21-16, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Poor judgment, and the lack of driving skills to mitigate it.

I don't obsess over every possible incident like some do, but the issues associated with overtaking groups are one of the reasons why I don't like riding in them, bikes or motorcycles.
There's no trick, or technique that will prevent a determined or stupid person from making an ill considered pass, and being in a group limits ones ability to observe, and react.
React to the dumb motorist that is driving too fast for the conditions and coming up behind you? Are you Superman? Or did you read that driver's mind?
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Old 02-21-16, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
Appears from early info they were doing exactly what they were supposed to do.

4 people on bicycles hit by vehicle in Johnston County | WNCN
And perdictably there is at least one troll blaming the cyclists.

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Lots of carnage. They don't mention the condition of the riders, but I hope they are all ok. Also lacking is the description of the driver, vehicle, or intoxication.

It appears to have happened on a gentle curve, but with good daytime visibility. Narrow shoulder, with some encroachment of gravel drives onto the roadway.

I think this one will have to be filed under Sxxx happens.
Actually they did, the article that I read said that the cyclists did NOT have any life threatening injuries. As well as alcohol did not play a role in things.

And I also believe that it said that charges were pending.
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Old 02-21-16, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
React to the dumb motorist that is driving too fast for the conditions and coming up behind you? Are you Superman? Or did you read that driver's mind?
If my view isn't blocked by being in the middle of a group, there's a much better chance I would be able to see an oncoming vehicle, and one about to make a pass in my mirror. It's not my imagination, riders in groups often call out hazards because of the limitations in visibility.

Aim high, scan mirrors, leave yourself an out. Basic road using skills.

My reflexes may, or may not be good enough, but I can't react if I can't even see it coming.

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