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Law Enforcement Suggestion Box

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Law Enforcement Suggestion Box

Old 03-14-16, 08:02 AM
  #1  
joash
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Law Enforcement Suggestion Box

I'm doing some work on Vision Zero (the plan to eliminate traffic deaths). I would like forum members to suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer.

Thanks!
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Old 03-14-16, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by joash View Post
I'm doing some work on Vision Zero (the plan to eliminate traffic deaths). I would like forum members to suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer.

Thanks!
Seize the cars of drivers who are not obeying traffic laws. It really is that simple.

Ever notice how people suddenly drive the speed limit and actually signal lane changes when a police cruiser shows up... people know what they are doing wrong and are just trying to get away with it... threaten to (and actually do it) seize their cars and I suspect we will have a vastly more polite and law abiding driving public.
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Old 03-14-16, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Seize the cars of drivers who are not obeying traffic laws. It really is that simple.
Perhaps give accused/suspected traffic violators a severe beating too just in case they might be guilty of making a cyclist feel unsafe? No due process necessary; real simple for A&S lynch mob-types to understand, eh?

Presumably you would also approve of the police seizing bicycles, backpacks or anything else of value from any bicyclist stopped for any traffic violation.
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Old 03-14-16, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Perhaps give accused/suspected traffic violators a severe beating too just in case they might be guilty of making a cyclist feel unsafe? No due process necessary; real simple for A&S lynch mob-types to understand, eh?

Presumably you would also approve of the police seizing bicycles, backpacks or anything else of value from any bicyclist stopped for any traffic violation.
Nope, it is only motorists that require a license for the privilege of using a motored vehicle on the streets... so only they can have that privilege removed, by the seizure of said vehicle. No severe beating required... remove the motor vehicle and the offense stops right then and there. Put that on the back of the license as a condition of the privilege of using a motor vehicle.

Of course the OP was asking a pretty open question, asking that we "suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer." I figured "simply enforcing the laws" just wouldn't be enough to satisfy the OP.




BTW do you happen to have a suggestion for the OP, per the question posed, or are you just here as a critic?

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Old 03-14-16, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Of course the OP was asking a pretty open question, asking that we "suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer." I figured "simply enforcing the laws" just wouldn't be enough to satisfy the OP.




BTW do you happen to have a suggestion for the OP, per the question posed, or are you just here as a critic?
What makes you think the OP wouldn't be satisfied with the obvious suggestion "simply enforcing the laws"? Did you think he too has a blood lust for law enforcement personnel to punish motorists above and beyond what the law allows?
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Old 03-14-16, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Nope, it is only motorists that require a license for the privilege of using a motored vehicle on the streets... so only they can have that privilege removed, by the seizure of said vehicle. No severe beating required... remove the motor vehicle and the offense stops right then and there. Put that on the back of the license as a condition of the privilege of using a motor vehicle.

Of course the OP was asking a pretty open question, asking that we "suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer." I figured "simply enforcing the laws" just wouldn't be enough to satisfy the OP.




BTW do you happen to have a suggestion for the OP, per the question posed, or are you just here as a critic?
You forgot to suggest the all too important public caning, and perhaps we should find out the purpose of rude and dangerous drivers by use of water boarding
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Old 03-14-16, 02:39 PM
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Take some officers out of patrol cars and put them on bikes in urban settings. They will save fuel, more closely interact with those they are protecting and have better sense for what cyclists and pedestrians face. Ann Arbor use to have them, not sure if they still do.
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Old 03-14-16, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Presumably you would also approve of the police seizing bicycles, backpacks or anything else of value from any bicyclist stopped for any traffic violation.
You probably shouldn't go around telling other people what they think; it makes you wrong a lot.
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Old 03-14-16, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by coney462 View Post
You forgot to suggest the all too important public caning, and perhaps we should find out the purpose of rude and dangerous drivers by use of water boarding
Nope, no need to embarrass anyone. They are only dangerous behind the wheel.

Simply enforcing the laws would be nice, but I'd be willing to go to the next step of seizing vehicles too... Imagine what that might do, if motorists were suddenly facing that sort of situation... do you think they would somehow develop eyes that would allow them to see that which is right in front of them?

The bottom line is we can write all the laws we want... but until they are strictly enforced, those laws don't mean a thing.
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Old 03-14-16, 05:39 PM
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I'm for actually enforcing laws. Right now it seems like the only way to get police attention is by being an extreme menace (driving in a truly crazy way, exceeding the speed limit by dozens of MPH) or actually being involved in an accident or hurting someone.

When I hear of cases of people ticketed for obeying the speed limit and IMPEDING TRAFFIC as a result, to me that's a blatant admission by the police that they have completely failed to do their job and are victim blaming.
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Old 03-14-16, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You probably shouldn't go around telling other people what they think; it makes you wrong a lot.
Not in this case, the vigilante poster wants the law enforcement personnel to apply instant street justice and impose severe financial confiscation penalties on motorists, regardless that the penalties suggested do not exist in law to all accused violators of traffic law. I am giving the benefit of the doubt that he is not a hypocrite and would want identical "justice" and extra legal procedures applied to all people stopped for traffic violations, regardless of the circumstances.
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Old 03-14-16, 05:47 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
When I hear of cases of people ticketed for obeying the speed limit and IMPEDING TRAFFIC as a result, to me that's a blatant admission by the police that they have completely failed to do their job and are victim blaming.
Where did you "hear" of cases of people ticketed for obeying the speed limit and IMPEDING TRAFFIC as a result? On BF or a similar source of such legal factoids?
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Old 03-14-16, 06:02 PM
  #13  
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There's a limit with what can be achieved through enforcement.

maybe the police can develop better accident reporting and tracking, then use the data to focus their efforts based on that data. For example there may be certain intersections, or types of intersections that account for higher than average accident rates. Or there may be behaviors, ie. turns across bike lanes, too many lane changes, or whatever, and then they could focus enforcement efforts on those violations.

From what I know, while the total deaths will always be to high, even if it's only one, it's actually low enough that patterns are hard to find. 250 (or so) deaths in a city this size aren't enough for patterns to form, and each is like a random occurrence.

However, if all reported accidents are analyzed and tracked, that data may show patterns and conclusions can be drawn.

Otherwise, maybe the police can form a few roving enforcement units and send them to various hot zones randomly to cite the more flagrant violations (both car and bike) and give warnings for less flagrant cases.

Here's an example. (not bike related) For years the ramp feeding the GWB from the southbound Major Deegan were a source of issues, as NJ bound drivers would move up in the less backed up lanes to the Cross Bronx Exp., then merge left at the split. So the highway unit would place an officer at the split and as drivers came up in the wrong lane, he'd simply point, showing them that they had to continue on to the Cross Bronx Exp. If they did so, no citation was issued, and the detour's added half hour was punishment enough. For the few drivers who insisted, his partner was around the bend to write up violators. The effect of seeing this enforcement would linger for days or weeks because you never knew when they'd be back there. The unit would be moved around to other places, and the random factor allowed a 2 man team to have the impact of 10 or more.

BTW - the NYPD knows what works and what doesn't so possibly the best thing the Mayor can do is ask them.
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Old 03-14-16, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
What makes you think the OP wouldn't be satisfied with the obvious suggestion "simply enforcing the laws"?
I think this happened once before; I'm in complete agreement with I like TB.

I once lived in a city that had two police departments (university and city). The good people decided to do something about the energy crisis (yes, this was the '70s). The something they wanted to do was to get people to stop driving and start riding their bikes. Their strategy involved convincing the local police to adopt zero tolerance policies towards traffic violations, on the assumption that many people weren't cycling because of a fear of scofflaw drivers. The result was absolutely astounding. In just a few years, this city became the Bicycle Capital of the World. You could look down any street and the bikes always outnumbered the cars, often by hundreds or even thousands to one. Oh, and a nice by-product was the near complete absence of traffic fatalities. Who's going to die in a bike on bike crash in a city with no hills?

One of the reasons this strategy worked so well wasn't understood by us at the time. It turns out that in terms of modifying behavior, it's not the severity of the punishment that counts, it's the level of certainty of receiving the punishment if one engages in the proscribed behavior. There was most definitely a perception on the part of most people that any deviation from the letter of the law would result in a citation. As a result, the motorists tended to go out of their way to both obey the law and to be courteous, lest they get a cop's attention by having someone on a bike or foot scream at them.

One additional by-product was that since criminals drive like criminals, many burglaries and other crimes were solved before they were even reported because of a traffic stop.
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Old 03-14-16, 10:10 PM
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I would also like to cast my vote for "simply enforcing the laws"...........But considering current events, I suspect the opposite will happen.

Another possibility would be multi media PSAs reminding people that using public roads is a conditional privlage for all users that comes with the responsibility to accommodate all users within the rules, and laws of the road.

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Old 03-14-16, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by joash View Post
I'm doing some work on Vision Zero (the plan to eliminate traffic deaths). I would like forum members to suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer.
How about actually paying attention to safety and control instead of punching the easy revenue box for speeding and red light cameras and other thought crimes?

You know, like spending on driver education and awareness rather than laser guns and speed traps.
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Old 03-14-16, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by joash View Post
I would like forum members to suggest things law enforcement can do to make cyclists (and pedestrians) safer.
I can not think of even ONE thing. I believe that only YOU can make YOU safer. There is no "safety formula" because there are too many variables. Wanna be really safe? Sell all the bikes and stay home.
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Old 03-14-16, 11:00 PM
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Increased awareness and visibility of cycling seems to help in my area. More signs reminding drivers to share the road (and cyclists to ride within the usual rules and practices). Public service announcements on TV, radio, local billboards, etc.

Most folks seem willing to share the road. They just need regular reminders until it becomes part of the culture. Same as the gradual cultural shift decades ago that gradually favored motor vehicles over pedestrians and cyclists.

I'm not a big fan of increasing law enforcement. Too often the goal is lost in pursuit of more revenue generation. Let professionally trained law enforcement use their own best judgment without imposing yet another batch of quotas. Tickets, warnings, and prosecutions should be done equitably as for any vehicles, not selective or ignored just because it's "only a bicycle or pedestrian".
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Old 03-15-16, 12:07 AM
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eliminate city laws that prohibit riding on sidewalks.
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Old 03-15-16, 06:38 AM
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Old 03-15-16, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Not in this case, the vigilante poster wants the law enforcement personnel to apply instant street justice and impose severe financial confiscation penalties on motorists, regardless that the penalties suggested do not exist in law to all accused violators of traffic law. I am giving the benefit of the doubt that he is not a hypocrite and would want identical "justice" and extra legal procedures applied to all people stopped for traffic violations, regardless of the circumstances.
Nope... he is a "hypocrite..." who believes that those that drive the big powered things in traffic pose a vastly greater danger to others than any danger posed by those who merely walk or bike... the laws of physics bear this out, BTW.

Of course we could simply enforce all the laws... but that won't happen either... so I can pose outrageous suggestions with the same impunity.

Last edited by genec; 03-15-16 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 03-15-16, 06:42 AM
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Enforce the 3-foot laws. Periodically refresh LEO's about FRAP laws.
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Old 03-15-16, 07:42 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
... so I can pose outrageous suggestions with the same impunity.
We are in agreement about the quality of your law enforcement suggestions.
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Old 03-15-16, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
We are in agreement about the quality of your law enforcement suggestions.
and no doubt nothing that we say here matters anyway...
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Old 03-15-16, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
We are in agreement about the quality of your law enforcement suggestions.
And again I propose, rather than just being a pointed critic... what ideas do you have to offer? Anything... Bueller... anything?
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