Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Bus driver loses license after road-rage incident

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Bus driver loses license after road-rage incident

Old 03-22-16, 05:57 AM
  #51  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
It's not irrational to ponder on how they might have influenced the cyclists response when he became aware of the dysfunctional driver.
Are you trying to say that helmet-cameras encourage stupidity? Or some level of vigilantism?

The first rule of Road Rage... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG0LnWBGHnE

If that's true, do dash-cam drivers just drive around aimlessly, looking for trouble?
smasha is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 06:05 AM
  #52  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Perhaps some day I'll get a camera, and will be faced with these considerations myself.
On the plus side, you'll have evidence when things go wrong. That evidence may prove someone else's guilt, and/or it may prove your innocence.

On the minus side, you'll have a lot of people armchair-quarterbacking every thing you did, and everything you didn't do. And if you screw up, that evidence may be used against you.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 06:12 AM
  #53  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
Well... I'm just saying... if it was me, I'd have been in the bus lane. I'd have been rocking that bus lane. There are some streets around here that have way more parked cars in them than the one in the video. I love them. Most cars won't use the far right lane because when they come to a parked car they are going to have to fight to merge left. I use what space is there between the parked cars and the lane to the left without breaking cadence. Can you say "door zone" boys and girls. Works for me. At the time of day (night) that the video was taken I'd have been all over that bus lane and the confrontation would never have happened.
Do you know what they call people who ride in the door-zone?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
... Organ donors.

If a car-door opened while that jackass in the SUV was buzzing past to "teach him a lesson", the cyclist would've likely gone under the SUV and died there.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 06:31 AM
  #54  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
But, my point is, and remains, that it was the lane center placement of the bicycle in the travel lane that elicited outrage. I'm not going to argue this. There wasn't any need for it, especially as there was a mostly clear bus lane alongside. Being FRAP in the travel lane would not have been any great inconvenience.
I think the trial judge would disagree. He noted that the cyclist did well to maintain a straight line at least 1 metre away from parked cars, and also explicitly noted that several cyclists have recently (over the past few years) been killed because people "carelessly" opened their car-doors into cyclists' paths.

The driver's defence lawyer tried to argue that the cyclist was not as far left as practicable, as required by statute; as if that would have preempted the driver from changing lanes and passing safely. When questioned about this by the defence lawyer, the cyclist referred to the government issued "road code" (essentially NZ's driving manuals, both for cyclists and motor vehicle drivers) and said that with consideration to the conditions at the time, he was riding as far left as practicable.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 08:20 AM
  #55  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Are you trying to say that helmet-cameras encourage stupidity? Or some level of vigilantism?

The first rule of Road Rage... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG0LnWBGHnE

If that's true, do dash-cam drivers just drive around aimlessly, looking for trouble?
Sometimes yes, although people driving/riding around aimlessly just looking for trouble is probably very uncommon.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 08:49 AM
  #56  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
What "popping in and out"? I never said I do that. I ride to the left the lane. Most parked cars go out of their way to not be brushed by the mirrors or wide trailers of passing traffic. Some go as far as to put a pair of wheels up on the sidewalk in order to get even further to the right than the curb allows. There is plenty of room to pass them without "popping" into the traffic lane and back again.

But, my point is, and remains, that it was the lane center placement of the bicycle in the travel lane that elicited outrage. I'm not going to argue this. There wasn't any need for it, especially as there was a mostly clear bus lane alongside. Being FRAP in the travel lane would not have been any great inconvenience. As was said, the driver was punished because his behavior was beyond the pale.

My father was once involved in a fender bender with a pretty young woman. My father was right, the woman was wrong, the cop admitted it. Told the woman she was wrong, but told my father in front of her that he didn't like my fathers attitude. The cop threw the book at my dad, wrote him a couple of tickets, and in general humiliated him in front of the woman. To cap off the performance, he let her go, scot free without providing any contact information. Maybe the officer called her up later for a date, maybe he didn't, but just because things work out for someone in connection with LEO proceedings, or even court proceedings, I don't automatically accept as proof of innocence or even of wrongdoing.
Then sir how do you explain this post of yours:

Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Well... I'm just saying... if it was me, I'd have been in the bus lane. I'd have been rocking that bus lane. There are some streets around here that have way more parked cars in them than the one in the video. I love them. Most cars won't use the far right lane because when they come to a parked car they are going to have to fight to merge left. I use what space is there between the parked cars and the lane to the left without breaking cadence. Can you say "door zone" boys and girls. Works for me. At the time of day (night) that the video was taken I'd have been all over that bus lane and the confrontation would never have happened. It's legal here to to use the traffic lane as well, and if a driver sideswipes you because they were raging they would get whats coming to them. Not enough, sadly, and that's why I choose to avoid confrontation rather than prepare for it. I'm going to get squat out of it if I am hit, camera or no camera.
To me that sure sounds as if you are in fact "popping in and out" of the gaps between parked cars.

Just what did you father do? What was his "attitude?" He should have filed a complaint against the cop for not doing his job.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 08:57 AM
  #57  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
It's only "popping in and out" if one chooses to do it in that manner, rather than in a smooth, well controlled manner with signaling if appropriate.
Not only myself, but plenty of others still maintain that it is far safer to maintain a predictable path in the travel lane, even if it's in the right hand tire track vs. trying to "safely" navigate the door zone.

Originally Posted by smasha View Post
I'm not aware of any conditions set by the court. If it were up to me, I'd make reinstating his license conditional on:
  • Anger management
  • Passing a fresh driving test
  • Successfully completing an on-road bike-safety training course
Agreed, and sadly, he's probably has a few drinking buddies that are sitting there with him blaming the cyclist for his ill fortune.

Originally Posted by smasha View Post
These days, I'd imagine that any potential employer runs at least a basic google-search before hiring anyone. This guy seems to have screwed himself by demonstrating that he's too much of a liability to hire, especially in any position that has contact with the public. But before his application even gets that far, a potential employer will review his application and notice that yes, he has been convicted of a crime. I'm told that "dangerous driving" in NZ crosses the line from "just" a traffic infringement to being a criminal conviction. Under statute, he could've spent three months in jail.
Again, agreed, this guy has done himself no favors as he is going to have a very hard time finding a new job. Again, as with most behavior off of the clock I do not feel that a criminal conviction should necessarily be the "deciding factor" in whether to hire someone or not. But it shouldn't be ignored either, as plenty of cons/felons have been able to turn their lives around because someone was willing to give them a second change.

But sadly, given what you've reported about this guys attitude I don't see him easily turning his life around and making an effort to change.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 08:58 AM
  #58  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Do you know what they call people who ride in the door-zone?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
... Organ donors.

If a car-door opened while that jackass in the SUV was buzzing past to "teach him a lesson", the cyclist would've likely gone under the SUV and died there.
+1,000,000
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 08:59 AM
  #59  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
I think the trial judge would disagree. He noted that the cyclist did well to maintain a straight line at least 1 metre away from parked cars, and also explicitly noted that several cyclists have recently (over the past few years) been killed because people "carelessly" opened their car-doors into cyclists' paths.

The driver's defence lawyer tried to argue that the cyclist was not as far left as practicable, as required by statute; as if that would have preempted the driver from changing lanes and passing safely. When questioned about this by the defence lawyer, the cyclist referred to the government issued "road code" (essentially NZ's driving manuals, both for cyclists and motor vehicle drivers) and said that with consideration to the conditions at the time, he was riding as far left as practicable.

+1,000,000
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 10:03 AM
  #60  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,754
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1746 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Then sir how do you explain this post of yours:



To me that sure sounds as if you are in fact "popping in and out" of the gaps between parked cars.
That's because that's how you want to read it. I have a little time. I'll humor this for a little while. Imagine you are on a road without a bike lane that has sporadic parked traffic to the right. Cyclists are advised to take a road position such that they do not continually enter and leave their main travel path. Which (should be) is to the right of the main travel path of motor traffic. On such a road, cyclists are in effect riding in the door zone unless they are hardcore VC and take up a lane center position, which is fine on a two lane. That is NOT the scenario in NZ. Or on a couple of the streets where I ride. In my situation there is a complete lane marked off for parked traffic. I use that lane and NEVER enter the motor vehicle travel lane at all. There is plenty of room between the left side of a parked car and the rightmost edge of the main travel lane. I am not "popping" in or out of it. I hope that is clear now.

At least once every couple of months in Portland you hear the following exchange somewhere in earshot... "Really? REALLY, dude! <thud!> or <smash!> and then you see some terrified cyclist pedaling furiously away from the car whose door he has kicked in or whose side mirror he has smashed with something... maybe the driver was careless... but he didn't hurt anyone... life gives you do overs if you live right... two women were jaywalking once when I was driving... I'd never seen such a thing before... I didn't hit them but I didn't stop for them either... in hindsight I realize I should have tried to stop, it was a miracle that I didn't hit them... tell me the adult, cyclist or not, driver or not, who hasn't done something in traffic that they regret!

Reading your posts, not just yours, others here as well... I get the sense that you all have never, ever, ever done something boneheaded or careless. I won't even go there and mention... aggressive or hostile or threatening. Most of us won't do hostile or threatening things, but we can be and are careless from time to time. Pay it forward. Cut the other guy <cue South African choir humming "Kum Bah Ya"> some slack when it isn't personal. Move over and let him pass because you can. It's your right to be there, but you can be magnanimous and acknowledge that you have a top speed that is a small fraction of his. Ride like Grampa and Grammy are watching from Heaven...
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 02:15 PM
  #61  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Not only myself, but plenty of others still maintain that it is far safer to maintain a predictable path in the travel lane, even if it's in the right hand tire track vs. trying to "safely" navigate the door zone.
I understand there are plenty of cyclists who are limited in basic skills and judgment, but I'm sure all but the most limited can cope with an occasional parked car when most of the way is clear. Obviously common sense dictates at some point the number of parked vehicles does make staying in the lane the best option, but that can only be determined at the given moment, not by hyperbolic rhetoric.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 02:20 PM
  #62  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
On the plus side, you'll have evidence when things go wrong. That evidence may prove someone else's guilt, and/or it may prove your innocence.

On the minus side, you'll have a lot of people armchair-quarterbacking every thing you did, and everything you didn't do. And if you screw up, that evidence may be used against you.
Well, unlike some, I don't claim to be perfect, and I'm sure videos of me cycling would provide plenty of fodder for armchair quarterbacks. I'll stick to learning from the mistakes of others, rather than broadcasting mine.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 03:12 PM
  #63  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
That's because that's how you want to read it. I have a little time. I'll humor this for a little while. Imagine you are on a road without a bike lane that has sporadic parked traffic to the right. Cyclists are advised to take a road position such that they do not continually enter and leave their main travel path. Which (should be) is to the right of the main travel path of motor traffic. On such a road, cyclists are in effect riding in the door zone unless they are hardcore VC and take up a lane center position, which is fine on a two lane. That is NOT the scenario in NZ. Or on a couple of the streets where I ride. In my situation there is a complete lane marked off for parked traffic. I use that lane and NEVER enter the motor vehicle travel lane at all. There is plenty of room between the left side of a parked car and the rightmost edge of the main travel lane. I am not "popping" in or out of it. I hope that is clear now.

At least once every couple of months in Portland you hear the following exchange somewhere in earshot... "Really? REALLY, dude! <thud!> or <smash!> and then you see some terrified cyclist pedaling furiously away from the car whose door he has kicked in or whose side mirror he has smashed with something... maybe the driver was careless... but he didn't hurt anyone... life gives you do overs if you live right... two women were jaywalking once when I was driving... I'd never seen such a thing before... I didn't hit them but I didn't stop for them either... in hindsight I realize I should have tried to stop, it was a miracle that I didn't hit them... tell me the adult, cyclist or not, driver or not, who hasn't done something in traffic that they regret!

Reading your posts, not just yours, others here as well... I get the sense that you all have never, ever, ever done something boneheaded or careless. I won't even go there and mention... aggressive or hostile or threatening. Most of us won't do hostile or threatening things, but we can be and are careless from time to time. Pay it forward. Cut the other guy <cue South African choir humming "Kum Bah Ya"> some slack when it isn't personal. Move over and let him pass because you can. It's your right to be there, but you can be magnanimous and acknowledge that you have a top speed that is a small fraction of his. Ride like Grampa and Grammy are watching from Heaven...
Sorry, I read it the way that it appeared.

And how many stories do you need to see in the news about some cyclist who was in the door zone and got nailed by some motorist who wasn't paying attention and blindly opened their driver side door into the bike lane? I have too many bike lanes around here where I live that are routed in the door zone and when I am using those lanes as soon as I see the first parked car I exit the bike lane until I've passed the last parked car. As I treat ALL cars exactly the same way that I treat firearms, i.e. as IF they are loaded. And gee golly wiz, I've never been hit by a car door, go figure. I guess I'm doing something wrong, huh?

Likewise I do the same when the bike lane is routed right next to where the local public bus system has a transfer station, i.e. I will exit the bike lane as soon as I see the first bus that is stopped/parked next to the bike lane and I do not return to the bike lane until I've again passed the last bus, because again I do not want to take the chance of being sideswiped by a bus pulling away from the curb.

And in the past I may have felt like kicking in a car door, or smashing a mirror, but I have never, and I seriously doubt that I ever will.

The very same goes for motorists, despite what some obviously think it is NOT going to kill them to either slow down for a minute or two or to move to their left to safely pass a cyclist.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 03:17 PM
  #64  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
I understand there are plenty of cyclists who are limited in basic skills and judgment, but I'm sure all but the most limited can cope with an occasional parked car when most of the way is clear. Obviously common sense dictates at some point the number of parked vehicles does make staying in the lane the best option, but that can only be determined at the given moment, not by hyperbolic rhetoric.
I'm sorry, but I do not consider a gap that is two - three cars lengths to be "an occasional" parked car. And on too many of the roads that I operate on that have bike lanes that are parallel to on street parking that is usually how big the gap is. Occasionally it might be 4 or 5 car lengths, but that is either very late at night or very early in the morning.

Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Well, unlike some, I don't claim to be perfect, and I'm sure videos of me cycling would provide plenty of fodder for armchair quarterbacks. I'll stick to learning from the mistakes of others, rather than broadcasting mine.
It might be interesting to see.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 03:38 PM
  #65  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I'm sorry, but I do not consider a gap that is two - three cars lengths to be "an occasional" parked car. And on too many of the roads that I operate on that have bike lanes that are parallel to on street parking that is usually how big the gap is. Occasionally it might be 4 or 5 car lengths, but that is either very late at night or very early in the morning.



It might be interesting to see.
Nor would I consider 2 or 3 car lengths worth utilizing except if I was in clear or present danger, and doesn't represent an example of when I normally would, or the conditions shown in the video.

You won't see it because I don't air my dirty laundry in public, and I don't kid myself, my temper can get the best of me sometimes.......
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 05:45 PM
  #66  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Nor would I consider 2 or 3 car lengths worth utilizing except if I was in clear or present danger, and doesn't represent an example of when I normally would, or the conditions shown in the video.

You won't see it because I don't air my dirty laundry in public, and I don't kid myself, my temper can get the best of me sometimes.......
Agreed, as I did this past Wednesday to get myself out of a potentially deadly situation, i.e. I was able to use a driveway that was present to get up on the MUP/sidewalk and get myself out of as I said a potentially deadly situation. Likewise in a potentially deadly situation I'll also opt to run a stop sign or a red light if staying put would put me in far greater danger. Knock on wood I've only really found myself in that situation once, and sadly it happened so fast that I didn't have time to get out of the way. Thankfully I only had their inertia to deal with in that case.

And like you I too know that my temper can also get the best of me.
Digital_Cowboy is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 10:36 PM
  #67  
molten
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
As I look on the next comments, rather than the Youtube ---- I take this that a transit driver did it, rather than a school bus driver.
What about cyclists going to the Board of Directors meetings, that are open to the public, and making comments on the podium.
As so many citizens are afraid to do. Just like at city council meetings.
molten is offline  
Old 03-22-16, 10:47 PM
  #68  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by molten View Post
As I look on the next comments, rather than the Youtube ---- I take this that a transit driver did it, rather than a school bus driver.
What about cyclists going to the Board of Directors meetings, that are open to the public, and making comments on the podium.
As so many citizens are afraid to do. Just like at city council meetings.
He was off duty in his personal vehicle. The transit system, and community have nothing to do with his actions, and don't need to address it in any way.

A person holding a commercial drivers licence is personally accountable for their conduct on, and off duty. His unjustified, wholly wrong, and illegal conduct cost him his licence, and job in accordance with established standards. His crimes were addressed in court, there's nothing more that needs to be done.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-23-16, 09:30 PM
  #69  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
I understand there are plenty of cyclists who are limited in basic skills and judgment, but I'm sure all but the most limited can cope with an occasional parked car when most of the way is clear. Obviously common sense dictates at some point the number of parked vehicles does make staying in the lane the best option, but that can only be determined at the given moment, not by hyperbolic rhetoric.
One car door can ruin your day... Or end your life.

You don't get to decide where or when a door opens. Any door can open at any time. When you ride in the door-zone, you're rolling some very heavy dice.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-23-16, 11:28 PM
  #70  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,754
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1746 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
One car door can ruin your day... Or end your life.

You don't get to decide where or when a door opens. Any door can open at any time. When you ride in the door-zone, you're rolling some very heavy dice.
I don't know... if you aren't in the door zone then you are in the travel lane. I like my odds better. I am the only cyclist I know who hasn't been clobbered by a cager. Or doored for that matter.
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 07:34 AM
  #71  
dynodonn 
Out on Parole
 
dynodonn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: U.S. of A.
Posts: 7,466
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1258 Post(s)
Liked 46 Times in 41 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
On the plus side, you'll have evidence when things go wrong. That evidence may prove someone else's guilt, and/or it may prove your innocence.

On the minus side, you'll have a lot of people armchair-quarterbacking every thing you did, and everything you didn't do. And if you screw up, that evidence may be used against you.
+1


Why I ride with video cameras, and why I won't post my videos online.
dynodonn is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 08:18 AM
  #72  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
One car door can ruin your day... Or end your life.

You don't get to decide where or when a door opens. Any door can open at any time. When you ride in the door-zone, you're rolling some very heavy dice.
Why would you assume I ride in door zones? I avoid it whenever possible by using the lane, or adequate distance, and the few occasions I can't, which hardly ever encounter, I slow to a speed that makes it a non issue.
But really it has nothing to do what so ever with what I'm talking about, which is using shoulders and other options when there's nothing preventing me from doing so. I make my decisions based on whats actually present, not an over active imagination, irrational fears, ideology, or to prove something.

It makes for safer, saner and more enjoyable cycling.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 08:20 AM
  #73  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I don't know... if you aren't in the door zone then you are in the travel lane. I like my odds better. I am the only cyclist I know who hasn't been clobbered by a cager. Or doored for that matter.
One is also not in the "door zone".......when there's no vehicles present.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 09:15 AM
  #74  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,754
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1746 Post(s)
Liked 295 Times in 214 Posts
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Why would you assume I ride in door zones? I avoid it whenever possible by using the lane, or adequate distance, and the few occasions I can't, which hardly ever encounter, I slow to a speed that makes it a non issue.
But really it has nothing to do what so ever with what I'm talking about, which is using shoulders and other options when there's nothing preventing me from doing so. I make my decisions based on whats actually present, not an over active imagination, irrational fears, ideology, or to prove something.

It makes for safer, saner and more enjoyable cycling.
Yes, this exactly. I should clarify my last post, where I said I am the only cyclist I know who hasn't been clobbered... or doored. I actually don't know any cyclists that have been doored. Clobbered yes. Doored, no. I would actually like to see some data on the number of dooring fatalities and/or serious injuries. Of course there are some. But... but... there are also rear end injuries and fatalities where cyclists have been hit from behind while in the travel lane. What is the ratio?

Are cyclists jumping out of the door lane frying pan into the travel lane fire? I don't know. I just know what works for me. There is also this: I haven't met the cyclist yet that can actually rationally define a safe out of door zone distance. We don't have two door Eldorado sedans with four foot long doors plying the byways anymore. If you ride to the outer edge of most bike lanes you will be well out of the door zone of 80% of motor traffic in most towns.

Oh... but then you would be uncomfortably close to vehicle traffic on the left... ... so we get the insanity that prevails in some parts of Portland where you have a 3' wide painted no fly zone separating the bike lane from the travel lane. Works just fine until a cyclist wants to make a left turn... ... no problemo.. just wait for two sets of lights. Make your left turn in two stages by first crossing with the first signal, waiting at the other curb for the other signal.. ... no, just no. Either bikes are serious transportation or they are not. At least the cyclists I know make their stand and do not use bicycles for transportation.

IMO cyclists that get all strange about road conditions as they are, should simply take the same stand my friends do, and refuse to ride on/in them. The infrastructure that a vocal minority of cyclists want adopted in American cities would bankrupt the local DOT auspices in just a few years. And then they would sit nearly empty, enraging the entire populace and impacting the safety of the few cyclists dedicated enough to getting out there. That is the situation one often encounters in Portland. Where there are particularly egregious traffic calming measures and especially segregated bike facilities present, any cyclist caught outside of the 'safe zone' becomes a target for harassment. I honestly think some of the A&S zealots that think things are oh so awful out there are their own worst enemies.
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 03:57 PM
  #75  
Digital_Cowboy
Senior Member
 
Digital_Cowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
Posts: 9,352

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
One car door can ruin your day... Or end your life.

You don't get to decide where or when a door opens. Any door can open at any time. When you ride in the door-zone, you're rolling some very heavy dice.
+1,000,000,000
Digital_Cowboy is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.