Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Bus driver loses license after road-rage incident

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Bus driver loses license after road-rage incident

Old 03-24-16, 04:09 PM
  #76  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Why would you assume I ride in door zones? I avoid it whenever possible by using the lane, or adequate distance, and the few occasions I can't, which hardly ever encounter, I slow to a speed that makes it a non issue.
I assume you ride in the door zone based on your comment, which I quoted here - https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...l#post18632182

And going slowly in the door-zone may prevent you from crashing into a door, but it does nothing to prevent a door from crashing into you, and knocking you into moving traffic.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 04:13 PM
  #77  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I actually don't know any cyclists that have been doored. Clobbered yes. Doored, no. I would actually like to see some data on the number of dooring fatalities and/or serious injuries.
https://blogs.otago.ac.nz/ipru/resea...listdooringmap

"In some jurisdictions, “dooring” has been called the most common type of vehicle/cycle collision (Munro), although these events are undoubtedly under-reported and the risk will vary from place to place."

"Results: Between 2007 and 2011, 245 cycle dooring injuries were reported in New Zealand (mean = 49/year). These represented 6% of all cyclist injuries involving motor vehicles (compared to 19.4% in Victoria, AU)."
smasha is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 05:35 PM
  #78  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
I assume you ride in the door zone based on your comment, which I quoted here - https://www.bikeforums.net/advocacy-s...l#post18632182

And going slowly in the door-zone may prevent you from crashing into a door, but it does nothing to prevent a door from crashing into you, and knocking you into moving traffic.
And you assumed incorrectly. It's possible to pass a parked vehicle with sufficient space to avoid such issues, and a strange assumption to make.

45+ years of riding a bike, and I haven't been doored yet, but I pay attention, and use common sense. I can also walk in a door zone and not get doored too.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 06:08 PM
  #79  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
It's possible to pass a parked vehicle with sufficient space to avoid such issues,
It's called "primary position", or "taking the lane".

Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
I can also walk in a door zone and not get doored too.
I've seen pedestrians get nailed by car-doors being opened. It happens. And if you're a pedestrian in the door zone, again, you don't get to decide where or when a door opens.

Last edited by smasha; 03-24-16 at 10:39 PM.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 10:17 PM
  #80  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
It's called "primary position", or "taking the line".


I've seen pedestrians get nailed by car-doors being opened. It happens. And if you're a pedestrian in the door zone, again, you don't get to decide where or when a door opens.
I'll stick with "paying attention" and "using common sense".

I've also seen people walk into lamp posts, there's some low hanging fruit out there, and don't consider it a reason to surrender reason to fear.

I know misery loves company, but I'll stick to what works.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 10:49 PM
  #81  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
I've also seen people walk into lamp posts, there's some low hanging fruit out there, and don't consider it a reason to surrender reason to fear.
Often times that low hanging fruit is who's opening their car doors into people... Or opening their car doors in front of buses and trucks.

Taking the lane EVERY time there's cars parked on the road means I'm not putting my life in the hands of that low hanging fruit.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 11:32 PM
  #82  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Often times that low hanging fruit is who's opening their car doors into people... Or opening their car doors in front of buses and trucks.

Taking the lane EVERY time there's cars parked on the road means I'm not putting my life in the hands of that low hanging fruit.
I give myself a more than ample buffer zone under those circumstances too, but I also understand that there's exceptions to "EVERY" rule, and meet those exceptions in a manner that isn't exchanging one risk for another.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-24-16, 11:43 PM
  #83  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Ride how you want. I'll just mention that the NZTA Road-Code for Cyclists says: "Never ride in the ‘door zone’ (the space where car doors open) when cycling past parked cars. Allow at least one metre between you and a parked car." - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/r...ies/#keep-left

"Never" is a big word. It's an absolute adjective, like "dead".
smasha is offline  
Old 03-25-16, 08:11 AM
  #84  
kickstart
Senior Member
 
kickstart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Kent Wa.
Posts: 5,332

Bikes: 2005 Gazelle Golfo, 1935 Raleigh Sport, 1970 Robin Hood sport, 1974 Schwinn Continental, 1984 Ross MTB/porteur, 2013 Flying Piegon path racer, 2014 Gazelle Toer Populair T8

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Ride how you want. I'll just mention that the NZTA Road-Code for Cyclists says: "Never ride in the ‘door zone’ (the space where car doors open) when cycling past parked cars. Allow at least one metre between you and a parked car." - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/r...ies/#keep-left

"Never" is a big word. It's an absolute adjective, like "dead".
I will, as it work better than limiting myself to the unqualified generalizations of 3rd parties, and I will continue to not be influenced by the gaps in skill, and confidence some feel compelled to project on to others.

"never", and "always" are indeed unyielding absolutes that also have exceptions.
kickstart is offline  
Old 03-25-16, 09:40 AM
  #85  
Leisesturm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,751
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1744 Post(s)
Liked 294 Times in 213 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
https://blogs.otago.ac.nz/ipru/resea...listdooringmap

"In some jurisdictions, “dooring” has been called the most common type of vehicle/cycle collision (Munro), although these events are undoubtedly under-reported and the risk will vary from place to place."

"Results: Between 2007 and 2011, 245 cycle dooring injuries were reported in New Zealand (mean = 49/year). These represented 6% of all cyclist injuries involving motor vehicles (compared to 19.4% in Victoria, AU)."
That is useful to know, but it is only half of the information I asked for. Where is the tabulation of the number of cyclists injured or killed from rear end impacts? If a similar proportion of dooring incidents are found in the American cycling population, I am very unscientifically estimating the number of rear end impacts in the U.S. to exceed the number of dooring impacts by 3:1. I will continue to take my chances with the door zone, thank you very much.
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 03-25-16, 02:18 PM
  #86  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
That is useful to know, but it is only half of the information I asked for. Where is the tabulation of the number of cyclists injured or killed from rear end impacts? If a similar proportion of dooring incidents are found in the American cycling population, I am very unscientifically estimating the number of rear end impacts in the U.S. to exceed the number of dooring impacts by 3:1. I will continue to take my chances with the door zone, thank you very much.
Off the top of my head, dooring tends to be in the top-5 list of cyclist injuries/fatals, while rear-end crashes (eg car hits bike from behind) doesn't even make the top-10 list of cyclist injuries/fatals.

Here in NZ, I can put names on at least two dooring fatals in the last 5 years (one of them involving a door-zone bike-lane) but I can't recall any fatal rear-end crashes. Likewise, for injuries, I've personally known several people who got doored, but I can't think of anyone I know who's been rear-ended.

Failing to take the lane when it's appropriate also lends itself to right/left hooks. Again, this is high on the list of NZ injuries and fatals, and again, I know several people who have been hit or nearly hit in these types of crashes.

Of course there will be regional variations. eg, rural riding tends to make door-zones a non-issue, simply due to lack of on-street parking in rural areas.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-25-16, 05:36 PM
  #87  
FBinNY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4368 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
Off the top of my head, dooring tends to be in the top-5 list of cyclist injuries/fatals, while rear-end crashes (eg car hits bike from behind) doesn't even make the top-10 list of cyclist injuries/fatals......
Accident date is tricky to analyze.

For instance there's almost a day/night difference in causation probabilities between urban and open road riding. Out on the open road, passing (hit from behind or similar) accidents are the most common. In urban areas, passing is less of an issue (probably because of lower speeds, and heightened drive awareness) and intersection events such as right hooks and left crosses become more common.

Unfortunately, the US doesn't keep data on doorings, but no matter how you slice it, it isn't the dominant cause of fatalities here. That doesn't imply that doorings don't cause plenty of accidents, because the ratio of injury to death varies by accident type, with higher speed collisions more likely to kill compared to lower speed events.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 03-25-16, 06:24 PM
  #88  
smasha
Vegan on a bicycle
Thread Starter
 
smasha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: wellington NZ (via NJ & NC)
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
FBinNY - And... Higher speed crashes are more likely to result in fatalities, whereas lower speed crashes are more likely to result in non-fatal injuries. Again, here in NZ, most of our car vs bike fatals are on high-speed rural roads, but most of our car vs bikes crashes are in lower speed urban areas.

So it's a big "it depends". But dooring crashes do account for 20% of injuries in some areas; by definition that's in the top-5 list of crash types, in those areas.
smasha is offline  
Old 03-25-16, 06:32 PM
  #89  
FBinNY
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 35,964

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 125 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4368 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 40 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by smasha View Post
FBinNY - And... Higher speed crashes are more likely to result in fatalities, whereas lower speed crashes are more likely to result in non-fatal injuries. Again, here in NZ, most of our car vs bike fatals are on high-speed rural roads, but most of our car vs bikes crashes are in lower speed urban areas.

So it's a big "it depends". But dooring crashes do account for 20% of injuries in some areas; by definition that's in the top-5 list of crash types, in those areas.
Yes doorings are probably in the top 5, or at least close. I wouldn't have said anything except for your assertion that passing wouldn't make the top 10.

In any case, let's try to remember that this thread wasn't about a collision in the first place, but about an unprovoked assault by vehicle.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 03-27-16, 11:46 AM
  #90  
molten
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
And unless I missed something it's a BUS not a BIKE lane.



It also amazes me how many motorists just have to "race us" to get to either the red light or stop sign first, what the smeg is up with that?
You ever wonder how many of those 'motorists' that "race us to get" to the stop sign first ---- are also other cyclists. Just driving their cars.
It may be for the jealousy of another's bike; the '*****' game -- in that one is bigger than the other. Like the big one beating up the smaller one in school years. Etc.

Last edited by molten; 03-27-16 at 11:48 AM. Reason: add
molten is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
raria
Advocacy & Safety
20
11-19-18 11:14 PM
coominya
Advocacy & Safety
49
09-18-17 12:34 AM
smasha
Advocacy & Safety
5
05-08-15 02:50 AM
badmother
Commuting
4
08-05-12 02:11 PM
squirtdad
Advocacy & Safety
15
02-25-12 02:06 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.