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Even with Sharrows, cops remain ignorant on use of the full lane

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Even with Sharrows, cops remain ignorant on use of the full lane

Old 03-20-16, 01:34 AM
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CB HI
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Even with Sharrows, cops remain ignorant on use of the full lane

https://youtu.be/2mSErs6XBik Even with sharrows painted in the lane, this cops tries to force a cyclist to ride in the door zone.
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Old 03-20-16, 05:38 AM
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A bit OT, but I'm pretty much against the use off sharrows. The laws are the same regardless of whether sharrows are painted on the road or not. The presence of sharrows in some places and not in others gives the impression that that is not the case.

Evidently this is not the case for this cop, who mistakenly believes that bikes need to stay to right at all times, sharrows or not.
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Old 03-20-16, 06:36 AM
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I think we have arrived at a point where bicycle law needs to be taught in the police academies and in driver's education programs. That cop simply did not get it. I was surprised that he gave the cyclist an opportunity to speak, and he really listened to the cyclist. It'll be interesting to see what happens when it goes to court. I hope we get an update.

That was a low traffic density road at the time of the stop. No motorist who knows how to change lanes would have been impeded or even slowed for more than a few seconds. That bicyclist was riding just like I would have for the full length of the video. When I ride roads like that I will move over into the parking lane if I encounter a long stretch that is unoccupied. Cool bike.
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Old 03-20-16, 08:19 AM
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The simple fact is that you cant impede traffic if you are on a 4 lane street. Faster traffic only needs to move left and pass.
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Old 03-20-16, 10:23 AM
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I wear a Traffic Master jersey by Elevengear. It has the Universal Vehicle Code printed right on the sleeve facing AWAY from me and towards anyone who is questioning my lane position on my bicycle.



Traffic Master Jersey Long-Sleeve Men?s | Elevengear Cycling

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Old 03-20-16, 11:12 AM
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So, would a google car change lanes or try to share the lane and observe the 3' rule?
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Old 03-20-16, 11:58 AM
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Cop did not seem to be a "know it all" and appeared to understand that the difference of opinion was based on how the laws should be interpreted. I don't agree with his suggestion to weave in and out of parked cars. I do understand his concern about impeding traffic; however it did not appear to be happening in the video. Anyhow, the demeanor of the cop made me feel that he would do some homework to understand what the cyclist was presenting.

I bet that if the cyclist were weaving in and out of the parked cars (to stay AFRAP) he would have been pulled over for erratic riding.
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Old 03-20-16, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
So, would a google car change lanes or try to share the lane and observe the 3' rule?
Interesting question. Love to know the answer there... if there IS actually any "default" in the code.
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Old 03-20-16, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
...I do understand his concern about impeding traffic...
The impeding traffic thing always makes me smile. If a car has to wait a few seconds to get around me, to some, I am impeding traffic. But at 5 o'clock rush hour on my way home there could be a hundred cars IMPEDING my progress without concern from the cops. If i am considered a legitimate road user, then I AM TRAFFIC, and therefore can not be impeding traffic.

On the other hand...cyclists in my community cover the entire spectrum for speed. Many cyclists are riding just above walking speed while others are nearing 20 mph. The guy/girl whizzing along at 20mph keeping up with traffic could conceivably have their progress impeded by a cyclist riding a 6 mph. I doubt anyone cares about that. I would LOVE for the cops to clear everyone out of my way who is "impeding" my progress.
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Old 03-20-16, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
https://youtu.be/2mSErs6XBik Even with sharrows painted in the lane, this cops tries to force a cyclist to ride in the door zone.
Oh wow, SDPD... on Park Boulevard near the zoo. The cop is clearly wrong. Doesn't have a clue, is of the "old school" era. There is plenty of room for motorists to pass in the other lane. This BTW was very very typical of the type of roads and traffic (with those same type of parked cars along the side) that I typically faced on my daily commute... with speed limits up to 45MPH. There is no other place to safely ride on the road.

Ironically, I suspect that a couple of cars passing in the background are speeding... but of course Obie doesn't see that... he's busy trying to learn bike law.

What the cop really fails on is the obstructing traffic aspect... there is no way to obstruct traffic on a multilane roads.

Now the cyclist... well, somewhat full of himself... do we really have to ride with camera and cite law to be able to ride on the streets?

And the cop goes into "minimum speed" aspect... sorry, no minimum speed there unless it is posted.

Yup, time for some LEOs to attend at least a 1-2 hour basic bike law seminar. Just so they know "something."
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Old 03-20-16, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Yup, time for some LEOs to attend at least a 1-2 hour basic bike law seminar. Just so they know "something."
+1!
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Old 03-20-16, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
...yup, time for all motorists to attend at least a 1-2 hour basic bike law seminar. Just so they know "something."
fify
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Old 03-20-16, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Looigi View Post
fify
What would it take to make some decent commercial PSAs... why can't some bike organization in conjunction with some auto companies, put together some education vids for TV... put their damn names on em... let em be sponsored, but dammit, educate folks.
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Old 03-20-16, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
I do understand his concern about impeding traffic; however it did not appear to be happening in the video. Anyhow, the demeanor of the cop made me feel that he would do some homework to understand what the cyclist was presenting.
If this cop actually cared about learning, he would have looked up the meaning and associated laws dealing with sharrows the first time he saw one painted on the road. This cop has patrolled those roads with sharrows painted on them for some time without ever giving a **** about there purpose or meaning.

Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
I bet that if the cyclist were weaving in and out of the parked cars (to stay AFRAP) he would have been pulled over for erratic riding.
Agreed on this.

PS: As mentioned, cyclist cannot be considered impeding on multi-lane roads. Even if cyclist are on 2 lane roads, they can only be considered impeding if they refuse to move to the right at a safe turn out when 5 vehicles or more (3 in some states) back up behind them.
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Old 03-20-16, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
... It'll be interesting to see what happens when it goes to court. I hope we get an update.
No court as the cop did not issue a ticket. The cop lied and used the claim of issuing a ticket simply to get the cyclist drivers license to illegally ID him. By that point the cop had already figured out that he was clueless and would look stupid in court if he actually issued a ticket.
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Old 03-20-16, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Oh wow, SDPD... on Park Boulevard near the zoo. The cop is clearly wrong. Doesn't have a clue, is of the "old school" era. There is plenty of room for motorists to pass in the other lane. This BTW was very very typical of the type of roads and traffic (with those same type of parked cars along the side) that I typically faced on my daily commute... with speed limits up to 45MPH. There is no other place to safely ride on the road.

Ironically, I suspect that a couple of cars passing in the background are speeding... but of course Obie doesn't see that... he's busy trying to learn bike law.

What the cop really fails on is the obstructing traffic aspect... there is no way to obstruct traffic on a multilane roads.

Now the cyclist... well, somewhat full of himself... do we really have to ride with camera and cite law to be able to ride on the streets?

And the cop goes into "minimum speed" aspect... sorry, no minimum speed there unless it is posted.

Yup, time for some LEOs to attend at least a 1-2 hour basic bike law seminar. Just so they know "something."
That cop is dedicated, not to the SDPD. But dedicated to his ignorance of the traffic code as it applies to cyclists'.
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Old 03-20-16, 09:23 PM
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I had this same encounter with a young Oregon State Trooper, except that I was on a two lane road with nine foot travel lanes (only thus for half a mile before the road widens and has a nice shoulder). I schooled him chapter and verse just like the rider in the video. Just like the cop in the video, he looked up the statutes I cited. The difference was that my cop never threatened a citation and he thanked me for the lesson, although he didn't fully accept that the center of a nine-foot lane is the safest place to ride.

There are so few cops in my state that educating them one at a time is fine. It won't take long to get them all.
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Old 03-20-16, 09:43 PM
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Wow, even our local LEOs are better versed than this. This LEO must need to clean his sunglasses, because he sure missed the sharrow markings in the MIDDLE of the one lane.
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Old 03-20-16, 09:45 PM
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Even with separate laws here in CO for 3' clearance, and for crowding/harassing cyclists, I had to educate a couple local LEOs on their existence. My trouble was rewarded with the offending cager (on video) getting a citation.
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Old 03-20-16, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
Cop did not seem to be a "know it all" and appeared to understand that the difference of opinion was based on how the laws should be interpreted. I don't agree with his suggestion to weave in and out of parked cars. I do understand his concern about impeding traffic; however it did not appear to be happening in the video. Anyhow, the demeanor of the cop made me feel that he would do some homework to understand what the cyclist was presenting.

I bet that if the cyclist were weaving in and out of the parked cars (to stay AFRAP) he would have been pulled over for erratic riding.
Very good point. Not only erratic riding. Potentially subject to a breathalyzer test. Also, Potential violation of 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure.
Originally Posted by Shimagnolo View Post
Even with separate laws here in CO for 3' clearance, and for crowding/harassing cyclists, I had to educate a couple local LEOs on their existence. My trouble was rewarded with the offending cager (on video) getting a citation.
It is astounding and amazing. How many LEO's are oblivious to the exact traffic laws in the state, county, and city/town. Across the U.S.
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Old 03-21-16, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
No court as the cop did not issue a ticket. The cop lied and used the claim of issuing a ticket simply to get the cyclist drivers license to illegally ID him. By that point the cop had already figured out that he was clueless and would look stupid in court if he actually issued a ticket.
Well good on the cop for not taking his bullheadedness too far.
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Old 03-21-16, 06:35 AM
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I wonder how the officer would have reacted if the cyclist had not been so calm, knowledgeable in reciting the law, and wearing a camera, yet still correct in his actions and recitation.
Considering the officer is supposed to be relied upon to know and enforce laws, My question is what could the officer have done differently to not lose face? Which I believe why this video lasted as long as it did. Maybe he also needs a course on that?

Sidenote: Although not a regular on this or many threads/forum topics I'd like to thank all the regulars on A&S your input is valued by me even if I don't always agree with it.

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Old 03-21-16, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
I had this same encounter with a young Oregon State Trooper, except that I was on a two lane road with nine foot travel lanes (only thus for half a mile before the road widens and has a nice shoulder). I schooled him chapter and verse just like the rider in the video. Just like the cop in the video, he looked up the statutes I cited. The difference was that my cop never threatened a citation and he thanked me for the lesson, although he didn't fully accept that the center of a nine-foot lane is the safest place to ride.

There are so few cops in my state that educating them one at a time is fine. It won't take long to get them all.
Don't forget, you have to educate all the motorists too...
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Old 03-21-16, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
https://youtu.be/2mSErs6XBik Even with sharrows painted in the lane, this cops tries to force a cyclist to ride in the door zone.
Please tell me that this cop honestly expects cyclists to constantly pop in and out between parked cars for their "safety?" Isn't doing that going to put cyclists into MORE not LESS danger? Why didn't the cyclist/instructor point out to the officer what the sharrow that was right in front of him meant? Or better yet, ask him what the officer thought that the sharrow meant? And IF the officer was going to look up the statute, why did he need the cyclists ID?

I'd suggest getting the officer's name and badge number and placing a call to his supervisor about the stop and how misinformed his/her officers are about the law and how it applies to bicycles.
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Old 03-21-16, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I think we have arrived at a point where bicycle law needs to be taught in the police academies and in driver's education programs. That cop simply did not get it. I was surprised that he gave the cyclist an opportunity to speak, and he really listened to the cyclist. It'll be interesting to see what happens when it goes to court. I hope we get an update.

That was a low traffic density road at the time of the stop. No motorist who knows how to change lanes would have been impeded or even slowed for more than a few seconds. That bicyclist was riding just like I would have for the full length of the video. When I ride roads like that I will move over into the parking lane if I encounter a long stretch that is unoccupied. Cool bike.
Agreed, I got a kick out how he even said that he rode a bike. I also got a kick out how that cop evidently thought cyclists had to not only always keep right but that we also have to keep popping in and out of any and all openings so as to keep FRAP.

Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
The simple fact is that you cant impede traffic if you are on a 4 lane street. Faster traffic only needs to move left and pass.
Exactly, I think that the cyclist even tried to point that out to the cop.

Originally Posted by curbtender View Post
So, would a google car change lanes or try to share the lane and observe the 3' rule?
That's a very good question.
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