JoeyBike

Many years ago when I was in my mid 20s I got hit by a car on a 6-lane highway. Legally, it was the driver's fault. I was crossing the highway legally and his car was facing me stopped in the median up ahead. When we got a small break in traffic we both tried to catch it and of course the driver was only looking upstream and turned into me. The corner of his bumper hit my rear axle and spun me around 180° where I stopped and put my feet down still straddling the bike. He was very apologetic. I checked to see if my bike was in working order because he was going to give me a ride home. All was OK somehow. We continued on our way. Had I been killed of course, the driver would have been at fault and I would not have been able to tell anyone that I did a stupid thing and put myself at great risk. I went where he was SURE to go.

I am older and wiser now but I still feel the same way about putting myself at risk. I accepted partial blame, although I didn't tell him. I was playing around motor vehicles, and doing something dumb at the same time. Some percentage of that is on me.

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More recently (yesterday) I was skating in my local park as usual since I quit cycling recreationally due to my perceived elevated risks now that no one is looking through their windshields any more due to the smartphone craze. Every day the weather is good I take my skates or one of my longboards to the park and put in 10-30 miles going in circles. That equates to 15-40 laps. Been doing this for about two years now. Like any popular MUP, it is pretty much anarchy out there - kids all over the place, dogs off the leash, dogs on 30 foot leashes, people running/walking on the bike side of the path, everyone but me with tiny white wires dangling from their ears, you name it. Also, roughly 10% of all dogs freak out at skates and skateboards. I have been lunged at by dogs large and small many times. In the course of 10 laps I probably freak out 30 dogs on average. Rarely I actually have to clobber one of them. Everyone is SO apologetic.

So yesterday I finally got bitten and pulled down by a dog. Roughly 35 lbs of some Australian Shepherd mix on a leash, well heeled walking next to a young lady. As I passed them from behind, the dog shot across in front of her right to left, I clobbered him with both hands, but somehow he got his teeth in my shirt and pulled me down on a butt cheek. The dog "Wiley" was then as sweet as could be and his owner was flabbergasted. "He has never done that before". Well...Wiley picked the right guy to bite. I didn't get seriously hurt first of all. I KNEW the dog thing was a potential problem when I was lacing up my skates but I proceeded anyway. I decided to skate on the narrower of the two loops because it is more scenic knowing it puts me closer to everyone's mutts. Ten dogs had reacted to me before Wiley pulled me down after one hour of skating. Some lunge at me, some cower.

I got up, we all stepped off the path and onto the grass. I checked the dogs tags (and will call the vet today to confirm his shots are up to date), got some info from the young lady so I could call the Vet, SHOWED HER the bite, and listened to her apologize again for a few seconds. Then she asked if her dog was going to be destroyed. (This almost made me laugh) I told her "This isn't the Wizard of Oz". So long as the shots are up to date and I don't die of infection it's all good. I also mentioned that if the bite was on some kids face instead of on my ribcage her life would likely be ruined.

Of course, if the dog had pulled me down and continued chewing on me sending me to the ER, the outcome for the dog and owner would have been vastly different. But in my mind, part of that blame goes to me. I KNEW the risks and continued the risky activity anyway. Same as when I cycle in traffic. If I get clobbered, no matter the reasons, I am partly to blame for putting myself at risk. I am not just talking the talk here.

I don't expect anybody here on A&S or anywhere else to fell too sorry for me if I get steamrolled by some drunk. I know full well that the drunks are out there, no one is forcing me to go play with them, and I won't be too shocked if one day they get their teeth into me. I only wish more cyclists would at least REALIZE the danger, and consciously accept it, before pedaling off or deciding not to do so. Too many cyclists get clobbered because they are in denial (or totally clueless) about the risks.

If you want to see a nice dog bite, click the link:

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ef&oe=578DBC36

Camilo

When you were hit by the car, how come he didn't see you when he looked "upstream" were you going against traffic or coming across from the opposite side of the road?

As for the dog, it sounds like the dog reacted to getting hit. Definitely the owner's fault and I'm glad for both you and the dog that it wasn't worse. Once when my kid was about 2, he jumped off the couch onto my sleeping, aged dog (think: hard of hearing, sore hips and joints, etc.). This is the family dog that slept in bed with the kids, let them lay on him, let them in his kennel with him, etc. etc. When he jumped on the dog, the dog lashed out and had my kid's cheek and jaw in his jaws, but stopped. There was a slight (very slight, only could notice it if you knew it was there) bruise on his face, no breaking of skin, very, very innocuous.

We thought at first that the dog showed aggression and isolated him from the kids for several days and were thinking we'd have to get rid of him. But then, the more we thought about it, we realized he did not "fail" this test, he "passed". He was jumped on by a 2 year old when he was sleeping, probably got the wind knocked out of him and/or hurt leg or hips so he lashed out protecting himself, but stopped himself before he hurt the kid. He lived to the ripe old age of 16 and was a good friend to my kids during that time. Of course, they learned to treat him more gently too.

I almost think that skates are as incompatible with MUPs as bikes, especially if they're crowded and you're trying to get exercise (as opposed to just ambling along gawking).

joeyduck

I understand.

Chris0516

Ouch, That is two puncture wounds!!

The way I look at it. When a cyclist, and a dog owner, are on a bike/ped path. They both have to think about each other. Because, The dog is not a robot, and should be respected by both the owner, and the cyclist.

I know I will catch a lot of heat for saying that from those that have been chased(and bitten) by a dog. I have also been chased. Your bites notwithstanding, I just react to dogs differently, than other cyclists.

Paul Barnard

What park Joey? Audubon? That place is absolutely maddening. You'd think with markings every 100 feet, people could get which lane they should use and which direction they should go in. I looped it once yesterday before it got crowded and still the stupidity was rampant. One man way laying down in the bicycle lane taking a picture of something. Walkers walking in the bike lane. There's always people walking in the separation zone. I wish they would require people with dogs to walk on the edge of the ped lane with dogs on the grass and a 6 foot max leash length. Some dog owners feel like walking on the separation stripes withe their dogs in the bike lane is the best thing to do. I rarely ride the streets of NOLA. I do have an early weekend morning loop that I do that keeps me out of traffic. Other than that I ride the levees or go to Tammany Trace or Hwy 51 in LaPlace.

More on point, I recognize the risks. I have made a life and profession out of risk assessment and mitigation. I have schooled myself on bicycle safety as much as I reasonably can. There are times and places that my strategy is avoidance.

JoeyBike

This was a simple act of crossing 3 lanes of a 6-lane highway with a 40mph speed limit. The motorist who ended up hitting me was directly across from me in the median, I was exiting a side street from a neighborhood. There was no signal, I had a stop sign which I had not choice but to stop at...for a long time as it was rush hour traffic on the highway. Traffic was moving from my left to my right. Had we both gone straight, the car would have proceeded on my left and into the side street, and I would have landed in the median to wait for the next 3 lanes of traffic going right to left.

But the motorist wanted to enter the stream of traffic which would cut him across my path. I saw an opportunity to "frogger" across the street because the car in the median was temporarily blocked by a car in the lane nearest him. When I was halfway across three lanes, the car blocking the guy in the median changed lanes giving him a gap, which he squealed into turning into his near lane. When he looked downstream...there I was proceeding across his lane. He hit the brakes but not quite enough space to stop.

I can't be certain, but I am 90% sure that dog was going to bite me from the get-go. At any rate, had I avoided touching him with my hands he would have put me on my face by grabbing or at least tangling in my leg(s).

This particular loop should be foot traffic only IMO. But the park RENTS bikes, surreys, trikes, and all sorts of contraptions ON THIS PATH. A real recipe for disaster from the start. As for my speed, on the big, wide loop in the same park I can go fast as I want. On the small, narrow loop, i just use that one for cool-down and to break the monotony of skating the big path. At peak times there is just way too much going on in a tight space to get any speed. Often I just have to coast behind walkers until I can squeeze past.

I also use the narrow path on my bike just for a shortcut, but on the bike I just ride the grass next to it whenever the path is choked with daydreamers.

Just one more tidbit: At peak hours this path is FULL of skaters, longboarders, and skateboarders just doing slow laps people watching or whatever. Little kids on scooters, electric cars, tiny bikes, skates, etc. Given what is "allowed" on this path, which is pretty much EVERYONE, the dog walkers are by far the biggest "problem" to other trail users. And there is zero enforcement for anything, ever. 30 foot leashes, dogs off the leash on occasion, and people who KNOW their dog will react to every skater on the path. I had one guy with a doberman who lunged at me and almost knock me down apologize and then tell me "he hates skaters". My response was "perfect place to take him" with sarcasm in my voice.

So given all of this^^, it is obvious that I am partly to blame for skating there during peak hours. This was my point to this post. Sometimes we have to look in the mirror to see the knucklehead who should know better or who knows and does something sketchy anyway.

texaspandj

Well I hope you take this in the spirit it's intended. But you take a risk in anything you do. Driving a car, riding in a plane, mowing your lawn. So maybe you're a low risk taker, I get that but please don't let that keep you from enjoying the short life we're all bound to.
To me owning up is when my teenage niece was in a bad mood (boyfriend stuff) and was being rude to everyone and eventually led to a big outburst and she went home. Later she apologized for being rude and disrespectful. And all was good.
People should be more observant,careful, and look out for the other guy. But when WE don't and accidents happen, they happen. All of our worrying of what May happen will not change what Will happen.
So keep using good judgement and and taking precautionary measures. But I hope this doesn't stop you from skating the same way you stopped biking. Good luck.

JoeyBike

Don't worry. Skating is my "thing". Cycling has always been 90% a means of transportation that makes sense for me, so was much easier to cut back to the minimum. Not sure what the long term solution to this dog thing will be on that particular path. Obviously if getting bitten becomes common something has to give.

One good thing - in New Orleans we have a tiny window of perfect weather in the Spring. This brings out the masses. Once it starts heating up the path gets much less use. Then in the Fall when the weather is perfect, college and pro football keeps everybody in front of the tube all weekend. So I only have a few more weeks to think about, then the whole city is mine again until October.

Thanks for the wishes. Not quitting skating.

CrankyOne

@joeyduck, bummer of a deal. One thing after another for you. I hope it all turns out OK.

I am very much not a fan of MUPs but they can work well in some situations. We have a bunch that I ride daily. They are not too crowded (usually about 1 or 2 people per minute will pass any one point). EVERYONE (bikes, walkers, dog folk, skaters) keeps right. This except to pass or ride/walk side by side and if side by side they always move out of the way properly when necessary. Occasionally a dog person will be on the left because the grass is there but they'll nearly always be on the grass or on the very edge of the asphalt. Most also do a good job of keeping their dogs either on a very short leash of far enough off the path that they'll not be able to reach path users.

There are two older people who don't get the keep right except to pass and who both walk on the left. Several people have talked to them but it's ingrained in them to walk on the left and we all just do our best not to hit them. One this year has been seen a couple of times on the right so maybe we're down to only one lefty. Both are quite nice though so not a big deal and they're rarely out when its very crowded anyway.

There is one section that does need to be split in to separate bike & ped ways. It is the 1/2 mile closest to the center and does get quite crowded at times and the speed differences between people walking and riding causes order to break down. Perhaps all the cyclists should just slow to walking speed until they have a safe chance to pass (which could be a long while on crowded days) like we say cars should do for us when we're on the road.

JoeyBike

I am envious. Except for one local path that is far from my house, it's total chaos. To be honest, I enjoy a little anarchy from time to time, so I just try not to hurt anyone else. That is my one rule.

On certain long paths my wife and I walk and face "traffic", but when someone appears up ahead we just step into the grass for a bit. These paths are training grounds for roadies and tri-geeks so traffic is fast and it would be really easy for a day-dreamer to cause a carbon fiber and bone scrap heap.

99% of cyclists ARE motorists. Many ride like they drive. Watcha gonna do? Just try not to hurt anyone or get hurt.

Paul Barnard

NOLA has great MUPs that run along the river and lake here. There are a few places it gets a little congested, but overall they are very good. If you are the kind of cyclist who likes to bury your head, hammer down and never let off, you'll end up in some unsafe situations. When I pass pedestrians or kids on bikes, I expect the unexpected and pass with minimal speed disparity. This has saved my bacon a few times. The River and Levee MUPs often require a pedal down horrible streets or throwing the bike in the back of the truck. I normally do the latter. Our MUP at Audubon is a zoo, pun intended. The MUP at City Park which, after re-reading the thread, is probably the one Joey is talking about, isn't as bad. It needs new markings even though Audubon proves that doesn't register with all users.

joeyduck

@joeyduck and @JoeyBike are different people

But I'm doing awesome.

JoeyBike

Yep. City park has two circular paths. Big Lake, which is the most scenic and too narrow for bikes and peds in my opinion - is where I was bitten. The Festival Grounds Trail is wide and more open. Both trails have a center line and a designated pedestrian side and wheels side. The markings are not that clear AND nobody cares anyway. Most people walk on the bike side and literally step on the painted bike symbols a dozen times per lap. I would like them to add the word "ONLY" under the bike symbols. Or maybe "Wheels Only". But then.....people with toddlers on tiny bikes wobbling at less than 1mph think they belong on the bike side too. *...sigh...*

The theme of this thread is "Understand the dangers and take SOME responsibility for exposing yourself to those dangers". I can't change the MUPs. I can try to use them or avoid them. That's about it. Same with cycling on the road shared with drunkards.

CrankyOne

Many rural bikeways in The Netherlands allow people to walk on them as well so they function kind of like our MUPs. However the ratio is maybe 1,000 bicycle riders for each person walking. On these people will walk on the left, facing traffic, and this works since there are so few of them (people walking). I've encountered them on training rides occasionally and the first person in line simply points them out and we all go around without a problem (though faced with a team heading for them at 30 mph they'd often step off anyway).

JoeyBike

This is called courtesy or being polite. Problem in my area is that people think they have some God given obligation to hold their ground, but are generally not paying any attention whatsoever (because of their God given right), so it then becomes impossible to act with courtesy or politeness even if they had the desire to do so. Then Heaven help the cyclist who passes without calling out as they will be verbally assaulted for startling the mindless drones paying no attention to anything.


BTW...calling out is generally considered a fine courtesy but sometimes backfires and sends a predictable pedestrian on a Ginger Rogers twirling spree dead center of the path.

Seattle Forrest

That was an amazing (and probably rare) act of compassion on your part. I hope the lady who keeps the dog realizes it.

JoeyBike

I did ask the dog's Vet to make a note in the dog's file that he bit someone unprovoked. If he bites someone else seriously enough to justify checking up on his shots, the file is already flagged. I didn't get the impression (from the dog) after the event that he was a public menace. There is a behavior called "fear biting" where some dogs just bite as a first response to surprises. Part of me wanted to make a big deal out of it so save some kid from getting bitten on the face or worse. Within two minutes it was fairly obvious that the owner was sufficiently mortified and concerned and the dog was calm. Would be a shame to punish (or kill) the animal for "protecting" that young woman from a presumed attack, which is how I believe the dog perceived me.

I guess I just took one for the "team" because I seriously doubt she will trust the dog on the path around so many skates/board/scooters with children at throat level to the dog. At least that was my parting suggestion to her. One less mutt to dodge in the future.

CrankyOne

In The Netherlands and other parts of Europe people walking are generally considered guests on bikeways though bicycle riders are still expected to be careful around them. They do not necessarily have any rights on the bikeway though so are usually very courteous guests.

Calling out of anything like 'on your left' is almost never heard outside of North America. People use bells instead. Bells are less offensive and require little to no thinking - hear a bell, move to the right or off the path entirely. 'On your left' is far to often initially interpreted as 'please move left' and people do and then they process it a bit more and think, 'oh, I heard on your left so I guess I should move right'. It's complicated. :-)

Korina

That's why I've taken to hollering (politely), 'Passing on your left!' It seems to work. Around here, a bell just confuses peds.

Digital_Cowboy

Joey Bike,

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to disagree with you when you labeled certain activities as being "risky." Cycling, walking, skating, are not in and of themselves "risky" activities. What makes them "risky" are the third parties who themselves are NOT paying attention to what they're supposed to be doing/paying attention to, but that does NOT make certain activities in and of themselves "risky."

That's NOT to say that those relatively benign activities can't be made to be risky by people who are texting on their cell phones, or who are in the habit of running red lights & stop signs, or listening to music at a loud volume in both ears. But again, for the most part they are NOT risky activities.

Digital_Cowboy

Which is why I prefer to call out "coming up behind you, sir or ma'am or you folks," depending on who is in front of me. And I've pretty much have been thanked for it every time.

Camilo

Yea, I hope no criticism of anything you did was implied - sounds like things that might be anticipated and avoided by you, the driver and the dog owner (especially the dog owner), but also leaning towards "$hit happens"

I know that the couple of times I've actually hit, been hit or come close to being hit by a car were either clearly my fault, or something I would easily anticipate and avoid with my current level of experience and caution. I always feel embarrassed when a mistake on my part causes a pedestrian or motorist to have to avoid me. That's why I am pretty mellow when it comes to other people being boneheaded ... I are one.

JoeyBike

Certainly the activities you listed are not dangerous "in a vacuum". I never heard of anyone getting seriously hurt by someone else in a spinning class. And if I were skating in a vacant parking lot and knock out a tooth in a fall - that is 100% on me. However, once we venture out into that big, nasty world of ours the odds of becoming an "innocent" victim increases and sometimes greatly increases. So if we leave the gym or the parking lot, we should accept SOME of the responsibility for whatever happens to us.

Apparently..."I are one" as well depending on which K-9 you ask around here.