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"Those Bicyclists Blow Right Through Red Lights!"

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"Those Bicyclists Blow Right Through Red Lights!"

Old 05-13-16, 06:57 AM
  #101  
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The problem with the Idaho Rolling Stop (IRS) is not the law, which I agree with, but the way many cyclist practice it. I personally practice the IRS and it's not a law here in Florida, I've even done it in front of cops with no problem. The problem is that many don't do the IRS correctly and cause problems at intersections, but if done properly motorists/pedestrians wouldn't even notice that we didn't put our foot down.

This video shows the correct implementation of the IRS, but many cyclists seem to think that they should never stop at intersections, that's simply not correct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84eB0N-LG6M
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Old 05-13-16, 07:38 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
The problem with the Idaho Rolling Stop (IRS) is not the law, which I agree with, but the way many cyclist practice it. I personally practice the IRS and it's not a law here in Florida, I've even done it in front of cops with no problem. The problem is that many don't do the IRS correctly and cause problems at intersections, but if done properly motorists/pedestrians wouldn't even notice that we didn't put our foot down.

This video shows the correct implementation of the IRS, but many cyclists seem to think that they should never stop at intersections, that's simply not correct: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84eB0N-LG6M
I watched the attached YouTube video, and that basically is how I ride. Except, there are quite a few traffic light controlled intersections that I treat this way. These are intersections I am familiar with. I know the traffic patterns, and I'm always prepared to stop if there is any danger. However, if it is safe, there really is no reason to stop on a bicycle. The example of the rider blowing through the active intersection is clearly wrong. It is not representative of what I do. I also contend that it is an exceedingly rare occurrence due to the very high likelihood of harm to the bicyclist.
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Old 05-13-16, 09:05 AM
  #103  
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I don't care if a light is red or green. I just go when the traffic is clear. Of course, I look and stop if needed. But, if there are no cars, I won't stop. And, I most certainly will not sit there waiting for a light to change if there are no cars anywhere to be seen. That's just stupid.
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Old 05-13-16, 09:19 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I watched the attached YouTube video, and that basically is how I ride. Except, there are quite a few traffic light controlled intersections that I treat this way. These are intersections I am familiar with. I know the traffic patterns, and I'm always prepared to stop if there is any danger. However, if it is safe, there really is no reason to stop on a bicycle. The example of the rider blowing through the active intersection is clearly wrong. It is not representative of what I do. I also contend that it is an exceedingly rare occurrence due to the very high likelihood of harm to the bicyclist.
I've seen it happen countless times; although, I do agree that cyclists "blowing thru" stop signs/lights is an often overused and inaccurate term, simply because many don't do this because it would be suicidal. However, what I've seen is that cyclist (at least in effect) expect motorists and pedestrians to give them the right of way.

Under the IRS law, you are suppose to regard the stop sign as a yield sign, meaning you yield to motorists that get there first, but in practice I see many cyclists consider it a yield sign for everyone else. When using the IRS method it is (at times) common for you to come to a complete stop and allow others to go first, but many cyclist seem to think it only means that you slow down, but keep going. Wrong.
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Old 05-13-16, 09:34 AM
  #105  
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I can't even READ this guy's posts. And it's not really BECAUSE of the BOLD ITALICS so much as the blatant DISINGENUOUS bs.
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Old 05-13-16, 10:46 AM
  #106  
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This topic gets discussed here frequently. I'll say what I always say. Stopping does nothing to enhance your safety. Making sure it's safe to proceed does. That can most often be done without stopping. Sometimes without slowing. A cyclist here told a story some years ago. He came to a complete stop at a red light. When the light turned green, he proceeded across the intersection and was mowed over by a motorist. He did stop. He didn't make sure it was safe to go. You must always do that, even when you have the right of way.

I simply won't bother with being concerned over a what a motorist thinks about me running a stop sign. Most of them are ignorant about safe cycling practices and based upon my observations about 100% will take liberties with the law themselves.
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Old 05-13-16, 01:13 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
This topic gets discussed here frequently. I'll say what I always say. Stopping does nothing to enhance your safety. Making sure it's safe to proceed does. That can most often be done without stopping. Sometimes without slowing. A cyclist here told a story some years ago. He came to a complete stop at a red light. When the light turned green, he proceeded across the intersection and was mowed over by a motorist. He did stop. He didn't make sure it was safe to go. You must always do that, even when you have the right of way.

I simply won't bother with being concerned over a what a motorist thinks about me running a stop sign. Most of them are ignorant about safe cycling practices and based upon my observations about 100% will take liberties with the law themselves.
100% agree
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Old 05-13-16, 01:30 PM
  #108  
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Any and all of the arguments stated for a cyclist not following traffic rules boils down to: I am a special, self centered being, everything is and should be for my convenience, my decision making is superior to anyone and everyone elses on the roads and is completely infallible.

The same arguments, if applied to any other vehicle class, would be soundly rejected.

So if it is ok for cyclists to run red lights and stops signs it should be ok for all other drivers as the think they are just a special.

as for do cylist run reds and stops, sometimes at speed

in the last 5 years 2 pedestrians in SF were killed by cyclists running red lights

I almost hit a cyclist a week ago at a busy 4 way stop, ignored the stop. speed wasn't high

I almost got hit a year ago (driver had to brake hard and i swerved) when I ran stop sign at 5 mph (I don't claim perfection, I am human) This was an odd multple stop intersection that "never" has traffic, so I wasn't as alert as I should have been. had I stopped no issue.

traffic rules provide predictability, which then helps with safety. Overall cyclists are far less predictable on the road than cars are.
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Old 05-13-16, 01:53 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Any and all of the arguments stated for a cyclist not following traffic rules boils down to: I am a special, self centered being, everything is and should be for my convenience, my decision making is superior to anyone and everyone elses on the roads and is completely infallible.
sorry, but I'm not putting a foot down in an empty intersection...

call it what you like...scofflaw, self-centered, whatever.

it just isn't going to happen.
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Old 05-13-16, 02:03 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Any and all of the arguments stated for a cyclist not following traffic rules boils down to: I am a special, self centered being, everything is and should be for my convenience, my decision making is superior to anyone and everyone elses on the roads and is completely infallible.

The same arguments, if applied to any other vehicle class, would be soundly rejected.

So if it is ok for cyclists to run red lights and stops signs it should be ok for all other drivers as the think they are just a special.

as for do cylist run reds and stops, sometimes at speed

in the last 5 years 2 pedestrians in SF were killed by cyclists running red lights

I almost hit a cyclist a week ago at a busy 4 way stop, ignored the stop. speed wasn't high

I almost got hit a year ago (driver had to brake hard and i swerved) when I ran stop sign at 5 mph (I don't claim perfection, I am human) This was an odd multple stop intersection that "never" has traffic, so I wasn't as alert as I should have been. had I stopped no issue.

traffic rules provide predictability, which then helps with safety. Overall cyclists are far less predictable on the road than cars are.
That's a bad take on the situation. Look at it this way. I, along with just about every other motorist takes liberty with the law after reasonable risk assessment. In the cyclist accidents you highlighted, they forgot one important rule. Make sure it's safe to go. In your close call, if you had stopped then proceeded without looking, the same thing would have happened. See how that works?

Nobody here is advocating that cyclists can proceed with reckless abandon. In fact we have condemned that kind of behavior. Go back and read my previous response. Specifically address the flaw of my argument as written.
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Old 05-13-16, 02:28 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Any and all of the arguments stated for a cyclist not following traffic rules boils down to: I am a special, self centered being, everything is and should be for my convenience, my decision making is superior to anyone and everyone elses on the roads and is completely infallible.

The same arguments, if applied to any other vehicle class, would be soundly rejected.

So if it is ok for cyclists to run red lights and stops signs it should be ok for all other drivers as the think they are just a special.

as for do cylist run reds and stops, sometimes at speed

in the last 5 years 2 pedestrians in SF were killed by cyclists running red lights

I almost hit a cyclist a week ago at a busy 4 way stop, ignored the stop. speed wasn't high

I almost got hit a year ago (driver had to brake hard and i swerved) when I ran stop sign at 5 mph (I don't claim perfection, I am human) This was an odd multple stop intersection that "never" has traffic, so I wasn't as alert as I should have been. had I stopped no issue.

traffic rules provide predictability, which then helps with safety. Overall cyclists are far less predictable on the road than cars are.
Not really... the issues that we cyclists deal with are largely due to a motor vehicle centeric society that has established laws that favor motor vehicles... clear case in point is the Idaho stop laws that seem to be working darn well in Idaho. Bicycles ARE a special class of non polluting vehicle... since ecars and car pools have special rules... why not bikes? Why... to favor the cyclist and save inertia. The bicycle is the most efficient mode of mechanized transport there is... and the current laws fail to recognize that... in most states.
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Old 05-14-16, 07:02 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
With all those bold, italicized words, you MUST know what you're talking about.

The fact is, Equinox is right. If cyclists were doing as you claim, as rampantly as you claim, they'd be dying left and right. That isn't happening, not even in Florida. The MUCH more likely explanation is that you don't know what to look for to see if cyclists are taking sufficient care before proceeding through intersections.
So I guess my friend and I while on our way home from the local VA did NOT see a woman ON a bicycle texting or otherwise using her cell phone? Nor I guess do we see (admittedly most of them are on the sidewalk) cyclists blowing or running red lights or stop signs?

And please explain how the cyclist that I mentioned the other day who had to take evasive action to avoid being nailed by the pickup truck had taken "sufficient care" when they blew through the second stop sign.

I know what I see when I am out on the road.

Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I think one of our problems understanding each other is we're talking about different things. I'm talking about highly-skilled, mature, road bike riders. The last time I saw ear buds a long time ago. The Lawyer sometimes uses his cell phone, but nobody likes him any way, because, you know, he's a lawyer. What would you figure a person's chances are of truly "blowing" a red light? For some reason, I figure 10%. You must have seen a lot of dead cyclists. What I do see on every ride are motorists jeopardizing bicyclists who are properly using the road, and even deferring to motorists. I could go on forever. Passing too close. Passing improperly. Speeding. Right hooks. Rolling coal.Yelling and cursing for no apparent reason. Whatever.
No, we are not. The gal that I have mentioned before considered herself to be a "considerate" cyclist and she DID in fact blow/run the red light cutting off a motorist who DID have the right of way. Just about everyday I personally witness this. Cyclists who from the way they are dressed and the bicycles that they are operating just "mindlessly" blowing/running red lights and stop signs. I'm sorry, but again on pretty much a daily basis I DO in fact see cyclists who are cycling while using ear buds, as well as full over the ear headphones. I also do see cyclists who ARE talking or texting on their cell phones while cycling. One such person that I witnessed drove off of the road into someone's front yard.

As I am sorry, but it IS a little hard to miss someone who does NOT stop for either a red light or a stop sign.

I'd say pretty damn good because I do see it all the time. Some "might" slow down a little bit but most of the ones that I have seen do NOT slow down at all. They do just go "barrelling" through the intersection.

IF cyclists and pedestrians are NOT taking unnecessary chances with their safety then how do you explain the state of Florida and the Tampa Bay Metropolitan area dismal track record regarding car v bicycle and car v pedestrian crashes that result in serious injury and/or death?
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Old 05-14-16, 07:06 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I watched the attached YouTube video, and that basically is how I ride. Except, there are quite a few traffic light controlled intersections that I treat this way. These are intersections I am familiar with. I know the traffic patterns, and I'm always prepared to stop if there is any danger. However, if it is safe, there really is no reason to stop on a bicycle. The example of the rider blowing through the active intersection is clearly wrong. It is not representative of what I do. I also contend that it is an exceedingly rare occurrence due to the very high likelihood of harm to the bicyclist.

I invite you to come down to the Tampa Bay Area. And you WILL in fact see cyclists doing just that.
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Old 05-14-16, 07:09 AM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by squirtdad View Post
Any and all of the arguments stated for a cyclist not following traffic rules boils down to: I am a special, self centered being, everything is and should be for my convenience, my decision making is superior to anyone and everyone elses on the roads and is completely infallible.

The same arguments, if applied to any other vehicle class, would be soundly rejected.

So if it is ok for cyclists to run red lights and stops signs it should be ok for all other drivers as the think they are just a special.

as for do cylist run reds and stops, sometimes at speed

in the last 5 years 2 pedestrians in SF were killed by cyclists running red lights

I almost hit a cyclist a week ago at a busy 4 way stop, ignored the stop. speed wasn't high

I almost got hit a year ago (driver had to brake hard and i swerved) when I ran stop sign at 5 mph (I don't claim perfection, I am human) This was an odd multple stop intersection that "never" has traffic, so I wasn't as alert as I should have been. had I stopped no issue.

traffic rules provide predictability, which then helps with safety. Overall cyclists are far less predictable on the road than cars are.

+1,000,000
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Old 05-14-16, 07:19 AM
  #115  
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Let's face it, anyone who can't/won't stop their bike for a sign or a red light is just too much of a damn wimp to be out on the road. If you lack the basic muscular and cardiovascular sufficiency to stop your bike and bring it back up to speed again, you really need to go back to the bike path with Gramps and the dog poop.
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Old 05-14-16, 07:36 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by skye View Post
Let's face it, anyone who can't/won't stop their bike for a sign or a red light is just too much of a damn wimp to be out on the road. If you lack the basic muscular and cardiovascular sufficiency to stop your bike and bring it back up to speed again, you really need to go back to the bike path with Gramps and the dog poop.
Agreed, as others here have said I personally have no problems with stopping for all red lights and stop signs and starting back up again.

And only once in all of my years of cycling have I ever been hit while stopped at a stop sign. It was at a four-way stop and the motorist in question had made an illegal left hand turn. If I had been in a car or on a motorcycle or a scooter I still probably would have been hit.

So to all of you out there who keep trying to say that stopping for an "empty" intersection is "too dangerous" then please how do you explain that only once have I ever been hit while doing so? Shouldn't I have been hit more than once by now?

Also to those of you who say that you "don't stop at nothing" how is stopping for either a red light or a stop sign "stopping for nothing?"
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Old 05-14-16, 07:59 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by skye View Post
Let's face it, anyone who can't/won't stop their bike for a sign or a red light is just too much of a damn wimp to be out on the road. If you lack the basic muscular and cardiovascular sufficiency to stop your bike and bring it back up to speed again, you really need to go back to the bike path with Gramps and the dog poop.
That's exactly my point!
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Old 05-14-16, 08:00 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I invite you to come down to the Tampa Bay Area. And you WILL in fact see cyclists doing just that.
Unless 9 out of 10 of them become grease spots, it's not happening.
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Old 05-14-16, 08:07 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
+1,000,000

Are you a self loathing cyclist? Do you maintain this ridiculous, sanctimonious attitude for self- aggrandizement to make yourself feel superior to other riders?
Just curious.
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Old 05-14-16, 08:58 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by skye View Post
Let's face it, anyone who can't/won't stop their bike for a sign or a red light is just too much of a damn wimp to be out on the road. If you lack the basic muscular and cardiovascular sufficiency to stop your bike and bring it back up to speed again, you really need to go back to the bike path with Gramps and the dog poop.
If I want to stop at signs and lights, I'll drive. Part of being on the bike is to throw a big bird up in the air and flout all the rules. Hell, I'd probably ride drunk...if only I could maintain my balance.
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Old 05-14-16, 12:19 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So I guess my friend and I while on our way home from the local VA did NOT see a woman ON a bicycle texting or otherwise using her cell phone? Nor I guess do we see (admittedly most of them are on the sidewalk) cyclists blowing or running red lights or stop signs?

And please explain how the cyclist that I mentioned the other day who had to take evasive action to avoid being nailed by the pickup truck had taken "sufficient care" when they blew through the second stop sign.

I know what I see when I am out on the road.



No, we are not. The gal that I have mentioned before considered herself to be a "considerate" cyclist and she DID in fact blow/run the red light cutting off a motorist who DID have the right of way. Just about everyday I personally witness this. Cyclists who from the way they are dressed and the bicycles that they are operating just "mindlessly" blowing/running red lights and stop signs. I'm sorry, but again on pretty much a daily basis I DO in fact see cyclists who are cycling while using ear buds, as well as full over the ear headphones. I also do see cyclists who ARE talking or texting on their cell phones while cycling. One such person that I witnessed drove off of the road into someone's front yard.

As I am sorry, but it IS a little hard to miss someone who does NOT stop for either a red light or a stop sign.

I'd say pretty damn good because I do see it all the time. Some "might" slow down a little bit but most of the ones that I have seen do NOT slow down at all. They do just go "barrelling" through the intersection.

IF cyclists and pedestrians are NOT taking unnecessary chances with their safety then how do you explain the state of Florida and the Tampa Bay Metropolitan area dismal track record regarding car v bicycle and car v pedestrian crashes that result in serious injury and/or death?
You're revealing your self-loathing bias. The reason there are so many accidents is that you have terrible drivers down there. The behavior of motorists is undoubtedly the biggest threat to cyclists. That's been [B]MY[B]experience.
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Old 05-14-16, 12:50 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Agreed, as others here have said I personally have no problems with stopping for all red lights and stop signs and starting back up again.
let me guess...when you drive, you're the guy in the left lane doing exactly the speed limit when there's 20 cars stacked up behind you wanting to pass...and they can all just suck it 'cause you're OBEYING THE LAW.
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Old 05-14-16, 01:12 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So I guess my friend and I while on our way home from the local VA did NOT see a woman ON a bicycle texting or otherwise using her cell phone? Nor I guess do we see (admittedly most of them are on the sidewalk) cyclists blowing or running red lights or stop signs?

And please explain how the cyclist that I mentioned the other day who had to take evasive action to avoid being nailed by the pickup truck had taken "sufficient care" when they blew through the second stop sign.
The proof is in the pudding. Show us the news articles reporting all of these frequent cycling deaths in your city.

Like I said, as did Equinox, if cyclists blowing through intersections is as big a problem as you suggest, cyclists would be dying left and right. You'd here about multiple bicyclist deaths daily in your city. That's not happening, so we can safely conclude that it isn't the problem you claim it to be. Either you're lying, or your observation skills aren't as good as you believe them to be. I suspect it's the latter.
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Old 05-14-16, 01:22 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
Unless 9 out of 10 of them become grease spots, it's not happening.
No, not all of them have been hit and killed, plenty have "just" been hit and severely injured and yes others have just missed getting hit by the "skin of their teeth," and YES, cyclists here are IN fact doing everything that YOU keep saying that cyclists are not doing.

As I have seen I have everyone from what a former landlord of mine reffed to as a BOB (Bum on a Bike) to fully kitted carbon riding cyclists blowing and/or running through red lights and stop signs. Do they all have to be killed in order for you to acknowledge what they are doing wrong?

Does it really take that much time to come to a complete stop and to start back up again? And again, how do you explain the fact if as according to you that it is "safe" to blow/run red lights and stop signs did that person who was in the gutter pan, or am I also mistaken about them having been in the gutter pan? I mean even though I was there and you weren't, you seem to know more about it then I do. Miss something as a large as a pickup truck if he was "just moving his head an inch" to check to see if the cross street was clear or not before failing to stop for the stop sign resulting in his having to take evasive action to avoid being hit by the aforementioned pickup truck?

I guess, because he didn't end up as a "grease spot" it didn't happen, huh? I know what I see, and everyday I see some cyclist not slowing down and blowing through both red lights and stop signs, I also on a daily basis see people out on the roads who ARE using ear buds, headset/phones, etc. to listen to iPod (or what have you), and at volumes so loud that it is blocking out all sound. But again, hey what do I know, right?
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Old 05-14-16, 01:24 PM
  #125  
Digital_Cowboy
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Bikes: Specialized Hardrock Mountain (Stolen); Giant Seek 2 (Stolen); Diamondback Ascent mid 1980 - 1997

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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
Are you a self loathing cyclist? Do you maintain this ridiculous, sanctimonious attitude for self- aggrandizement to make yourself feel superior to other riders?
Just curious.
No, I am just someone who tries to follow the rules to the best that any of us can. We are all human and as such we do from time-to-time make mistakes. But when I see cyclists who fail to even slow down or look before running a red light or a stop sign it ticks me off, because it IS sending the wrong message to other road users out there.
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