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"Those Bicyclists Blow Right Through Red Lights!"

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"Those Bicyclists Blow Right Through Red Lights!"

Old 05-14-16, 01:26 PM
  #126  
Digital_Cowboy
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
You're revealing your self-loathing bias. The reason there are so many accidents is that you have terrible drivers down there. The behavior of motorists is undoubtedly the biggest threat to cyclists. That's been [B]MY[B]experience.
As much as I would love to but the bulk of the blame on the shoulders of the motorists it is NOT all their fault. There are far too many people who are on bicycles who do NOT think that the rules/laws do not apply to them.
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Old 05-14-16, 01:27 PM
  #127  
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Originally Posted by baron von trail View Post
If I want to stop at signs and lights, I'll drive. Part of being on the bike is to throw a big bird up in the air and flout all the rules. Hell, I'd probably ride drunk...if only I could maintain my balance.
lol. You're one of those guys who doesn't know how to shift gears, aren't you? Winching your way up the hill at 25 rpm in the big chainring...
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Old 05-14-16, 01:28 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by FullGas View Post
let me guess...when you drive, you're the guy in the left lane doing exactly the speed limit when there's 20 cars stacked up behind you wanting to pass...and they can all just suck it 'cause you're OBEYING THE LAW.
And you would be 100% wrong. As the only thing that I drive is my bicycle. By choice I have never (other then a learners permit) have had a drivers license.
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Old 05-14-16, 01:36 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
The proof is in the pudding. Show us the news articles reporting all of these frequent cycling deaths in your city.

Like I said, as did Equinox, if cyclists blowing through intersections is as big a problem as you suggest, cyclists would be dying left and right. You'd here about multiple bicyclist deaths daily in your city. That's not happening, so we can safely conclude that it isn't the problem you claim it to be. Either you're lying, or your observation skills aren't as good as you believe them to be. I suspect it's the latter.
Just because people are not dying every time that they blow/run a red light or a stop sign doesn't mean it isn't happening. How many people have to die before you acknowledge that it is happening? Just look up Florida and the Tampa By Metropolitan area stats to see how bad it is.
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Old 05-14-16, 01:43 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Just because people are not dying every time that they blow/run a red light or a stop sign doesn't mean it isn't happening.
They wouldn't be dying every time, but they absolutely would be dying frequently, which translates to multiple deaths daily if the problem is as rampant as you claim. Again, do you have links to the news articles reporting the deaths?
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Old 05-14-16, 02:01 PM
  #131  
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Here is an article from August of last year:

Florida's bike death rate highest in nation

Hillsborough roads were deadliest ever for pedestrians in 2015

Tampa Bay bicycle deaths rise in 2012

But, hey what do I know, I only live and cycle here, and I see the roadside memorials on a daily basis. But those of you who do not live or cycle here seem to know better about what happens here then someone who does.
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Old 05-14-16, 02:02 PM
  #132  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
They wouldn't be dying every time, but they absolutely would be dying frequently, which translates to multiple deaths daily if the problem is as rampant as you claim. Again, do you have links to the news articles reporting the deaths?
I just posted some please read them and then try and tell me that cyclists are NOT doing the things that I've said that they are doing.
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Old 05-14-16, 02:04 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I just posted some please read them and then try and tell me that cyclists are NOT doing the things that I've said that they are doing.
Those articles don't report fatalities occurring at anywhere close to the rates we would expect (think several hundred bicycle fatalities annually) if the claims you've made are true. They strongly suggest that cyclist are not rampantly blowing through red lights and stops signs.

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Old 05-14-16, 02:11 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
Those articles don't report fatalities occurring at anywhere close to the rates we would expect (think several hundred bicycle fatalities annually) if the claims you've made are true. They strongly suggest that cyclist are not rampantly blowing through red lights and stops signs.
Again, how many people need to die in order to convince you that things are bad here? Does EVERYONE who blows/runs a red light or stop sign have to die in order for you to believe that it is happening?
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Old 05-14-16, 02:26 PM
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
I just posted some please read them and then try and tell me that cyclists are NOT doing the things that I've said that they are doing.
You default to the conclusion that a fatality or injury is a result of the cyclist's action when all the evidence indicates that it is more likely due to the motorist's actions. The scenario you posit is commonly cited by the public, and it is simply false. I find it upsetting because it is a lie that distracts from the real problems facing bicycle riders. Motorists need to be educated about the rights of cyclists to use the roads as well as their moral and civil and criminal responsibilities as operators of the deadliest vehicles on the road. You are not a liar, but you are dangerous to the cycling community. You are absolutely misinterpreting what you see and you are applying your bias to your observation. This is common among cyclists and non-cyclists alike. There are many self loathing cyclists and it is a way of elevating one's self as being somehow "superior" to the "dangerous" cyclists out there.
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Old 05-14-16, 02:38 PM
  #136  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Again, how many people need to die in order to convince you that things are bad here? Does EVERYONE who blows/runs a red light or stop sign have to die in order for you to believe that it is happening?
I believe things are bad. I know it is because of bad drivers. I'm curious. Given the scenario that you proposed, i.e. a cyclist riding at speed against a red light at an active intersection with absolutely no regard for oncoming traffic (no checking, no speed modulation); what do you think the odds are of that cyclist making it through that intersection without getting hit by an oncoming vehicle? I think it would be a 10% chance they would make it through safely. What do you think?
(As I write out that scenario, I sincerely can't believe any one could possibly believe this would actually happen. Utterly absurd.)
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Old 05-14-16, 02:51 PM
  #137  
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Originally Posted by skye View Post
lol. You're one of those guys who doesn't know how to shift gears, aren't you? Winching your way up the hill at 25 rpm in the big chainring...
It sure makes it easier when you get to the other side. Just take a swig of beer and fly down the hill...in the lane opposite to traffic flow.
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Old 05-14-16, 02:53 PM
  #138  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I believe things are bad. I know it is because of bad drivers. I'm curious. Given the scenario that you proposed, i.e. a cyclist riding at speed against a red light at an active intersection with absolutely no regard for oncoming traffic (no checking, no speed modulation); what do you think the odds are of that cyclist making it through that intersection without getting hit by an oncoming vehicle? I think it would be a 10% chance they would make it through safely. What do you think?
(As I write out that scenario, I sincerely can't believe any one could possibly believe this would actually happen. Utterly absurd.)
I am sure that there are some people who do this. It's one reason that group rides insist on two things:
1. VC
2. plastic hat.

But, assuming someone riding on their own is not a complete moron and has some sense of self-preservation, riding by observation and as conditions allow should be perfectly fine.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:02 PM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Again, how many people need to die in order to convince you that things are bad here? Does EVERYONE who blows/runs a red light or stop sign have to die in order for you to believe that it is happening?
That's the thing. If the problem was as bad as you claim, nearly everyone who practiced the behavior would die. It's the bicycle equivalent of Russian Roulette. They might get away with it a few times, but very few would manage to escape with their lives after doing it regularly. It's a self-limiting behavior. That isn't what is happening, hence the behavior is obviously not as you describe.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:08 PM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
That's the thing. If the problem was as bad as you claim, nearly everyone who practiced the behavior would die. It's the bicycle equivalent of Russian Roulette. They might get away with it a few times, but very few would manage to escape with their lives after doing it regularly. It's a self-limiting behavior. That isn't what is happening, hence the behavior is obviously not as you describe.
I will admit this much. If someone blows red lights, signs and rides in ways drivers would not expect like in the opposite direction of traffic flow or by cutting across traffic lanes, then that rider better be alert as hell. It's awful easy to miss seeing a car.

Now, with the above said and taken into account, assuming someone has reasonable vision and uses it effectively, then the risk of dying by breaking rules of the road is no higher than it would be by following them.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:19 PM
  #141  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I believe things are bad. I know it is because of bad drivers. I'm curious. Given the scenario that you proposed, i.e. a cyclist riding at speed against a red light at an active intersection with absolutely no regard for oncoming traffic (no checking, no speed modulation); what do you think the odds are of that cyclist making it through that intersection without getting hit by an oncoming vehicle? I think it would be a 10% chance they would make it through safely. What do you think?
(As I write out that scenario, I sincerely can't believe any one could possibly believe this would actually happen. Utterly absurd.)
so i have to close my eyes while peddaling full speed, in that case 80%, since youre asking
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Old 05-14-16, 03:22 PM
  #142  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Here is an article from August of last year:

Florida's bike death rate highest in nation

Hillsborough roads were deadliest ever for pedestrians in 2015

Tampa Bay bicycle deaths rise in 2012

But, hey what do I know, I only live and cycle here, and I see the roadside memorials on a daily basis. But those of you who do not live or cycle here seem to know better about what happens here then someone who does.
peole get killed everywhere, how do red lights come in?
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Old 05-14-16, 03:24 PM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
With all those bold, italicized words, you MUST know what you're talking about.

The fact is, Equinox is right. If cyclists were doing as you claim, as rampantly as you claim, they'd be dying left and right. That isn't happening, not even in Florida. The MUCH more likely explanation is that you don't know what to look for to see if cyclists are taking sufficient care before proceeding through intersections.
HE KNEW!
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Old 05-14-16, 03:25 PM
  #144  
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Whenever someone criticizes bicycles for the certain traffic violations they do, I ask in return how he feels about motorists who do the same thing. Not that I’m defending any of the offending practices of cyclists, I’m gauging whether the critic is being balanced or if he is critical only of cyclists.

And then I remind him of these recent incidences:

Vehicle rollover on Highway 27 caught on dramatic dashcam video - Toronto - CBC News

SUV crashes into Stop 'n' Go convenience store at Bathurst and Harbord - Toronto - CBC News
Woman killed after car smashes into Queen Street East dance studio - Toronto - CBC News
Police seeking Toyota Corolla driving in wrong direction near Markham high school - Toronto - CBC News
Cyclist struck, pinned under car in Distillery District - Toronto - CBC News
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Old 05-14-16, 03:28 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
You default to the conclusion that a fatality or injury is a result of the cyclist's action when all the evidence indicates that it is more likely due to the motorist's actions. The scenario you posit is commonly cited by the public, and it is simply false. I find it upsetting because it is a lie that distracts from the real problems facing bicycle riders. Motorists need to be educated about the rights of cyclists to use the roads as well as their moral and civil and criminal responsibilities as operators of the deadliest vehicles on the road. You are not a liar, but you are dangerous to the cycling community. You are absolutely misinterpreting what you see and you are applying your bias to your observation. This is common among cyclists and non-cyclists alike. There are many self loathing cyclists and it is a way of elevating one's self as being somehow "superior" to the "dangerous" cyclists out there.
Gee golly wiz I am so glad that I have someone like you to tell me that I am misinterpreting things, such as the aforementioned cyclist who while traveling in the gutter pan, or I did I also misinterpret that as well? Who was almost hit because of the pickup truck that had had the right of way, I am glad that I have you to tell only myself but my friend misinterpreted seeing a cyclist on their cell phone while riding on the sidewalk. I am so glad I have you to tell me that I am misinterpreting it every time that I see a cyclist in the road with ear buds or headphones on. Please tell me how did I live so long without you in my life to tell me that I am misinterpreting everything that I see.

About the only thing that you and I agree on is the need for more education for motorists, cyclists and pedestrians alike.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:31 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I believe things are bad. I know it is because of bad drivers. I'm curious. Given the scenario that you proposed, i.e. a cyclist riding at speed against a red light at an active intersection with absolutely no regard for oncoming traffic (no checking, no speed modulation); what do you think the odds are of that cyclist making it through that intersection without getting hit by an oncoming vehicle? I think it would be a 10% chance they would make it through safely. What do you think?
(As I write out that scenario, I sincerely can't believe any one could possibly believe this would actually happen. Utterly absurd.)
Come down to Florida and see for yourself first hand. I wish that I have a GoPro so that I could shoot footage of what I see. But I'm sure that you'd still come up with some argument about how I wasn't really recording what was actually happening. So come on down and see for yourself. And I never said that everyone who does this is getting hit or killed just that here in Florida we have about the worst track record in the nation.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:34 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by Jaywalk3r View Post
That's the thing. If the problem was as bad as you claim, nearly everyone who practiced the behavior would die. It's the bicycle equivalent of Russian Roulette. They might get away with it a few times, but very few would manage to escape with their lives after doing it regularly. It's a self-limiting behavior. That isn't what is happening, hence the behavior is obviously not as you describe.
So then according to you EVERY single crash between either a cyclist or a pedestrian is solely the fault of the motorist. And cyclists and pedestrians are never to blame, right, am I reading you correctly. Then how the bloody hell do you explain all of the roadside memorials that I see while out on my bike and in my friends cars?

I guess that I am just misinterpreting them as well, huh? And I guess that person I saw in the gutter pan really was riding in a safe manner and didn't almost get hit by a pickup truck. Thanks for correcting me.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:40 PM
  #148  
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Okay, answer me this, IF as according to some of you that stopping for red lights and stop signs is also a dangerous activity how come the streets/intersections aren't littered from the carnage of people doing so? I mean if stopping for red lights and stop signs is so dangerous then how come countless cyclists are not dying ever year doing so? Explain that one please.
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Old 05-14-16, 03:45 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
Okay, answer me this, IF as according to some of you that stopping for red lights and stop signs is also a dangerous activity how come the streets/intersections aren't littered from the carnage of people doing so? I mean if stopping for red lights and stop signs is so dangerous then how come countless cyclists are not dying ever year doing so? Explain that one please.
Are you going to tell me what percentage of riders blowing though red lights you think will make it through safely?
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Old 05-14-16, 03:46 PM
  #150  
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Originally Posted by Digital_Cowboy View Post
So then according to you EVERY single crash between either a cyclist or a pedestrian is solely the fault of the motorist. And cyclists and pedestrians are never to blame, right, am I reading you correctly. Then how the bloody hell do you explain all of the roadside memorials that I see while out on my bike and in my friends cars?

I guess that I am just misinterpreting them as well, huh? And I guess that person I saw in the gutter pan really was riding in a safe manner and didn't almost get hit by a pickup truck. Thanks for correcting me.
Why are you assuming the roadside memorials represent fatalities as a result of a bicyclist doing something wrong?
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