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Give Me A Break

Old 07-18-16, 06:07 AM
  #26  
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I don't believe it is a mirror 'issue' btw and you make some valid points as to why you don't use them.
My point though is I don't think you or most other riders(myself included)are as aware of our surroundings as we should be or think we are.
If you are stating that you cannot ride safely while using a mirror how can you expect vehicle drivers to do so? Or are you implying they maybe shouldnt use mirrors?
I am stretching the point a bit ofc but it is valid.
My real concern though is all of the cyclists out there who are riding hard and training on the roads in traffic.
They are regularly trying to push themselves beyond their limits. Many using very expensive electronics to aid them in the process.
And almost all of them reference 'bonking' on multiple occassions.
You cannot tell me that these riders are always riding safely or as aware of their surroundings as they should be.
No way
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Old 07-18-16, 06:29 AM
  #27  
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Personally.... for me... the day I return home from a bicycle ride frustrated enough to post a piece like the OP. That will be the day I hang-up my bike (maybe) for the last time.

There is a lot of medical conditions that can cause emotional responses similar to what is described. But I know of no events that occur during a bicycle ride that would normally cause such a high frustration level.

I don't know if I even believe in the frustration-aggression hypotheses but one thing is sure... you don't sound (read) like a happy cyclist. How can cycling the same roads (and with the same motorist) be such a joy for most cyclists... yet be a source of aggravation for you?

Fear (and it's resulting anger) is an internally generated emotion. If it was me....... I'd look inside myself to find the source of whatever is stealing the cycling fun.
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Old 07-18-16, 06:35 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
On this mirror issue; setting aside the obvious advantages for a moment, there is a reason most riders don't utilize them.
I'm sure comfort, convenience, durability and maintenance are possible reasons. Those can be overcome.

Do some riders also think that the distraction of attention away from the front, and the possibility you may misinterpret what you see in that small mirror are problems?

I think the mirrors could potentially make me less safe. I could see myself spending an inordinate amount of time checking the mirror. I could see myself avoiding dangers that aren't really there. It would clearly divert my attention away from what is in front of me.

A huge risk in my area would be not seeing a pothole in front of me because I was looking in my mirror.
Every other vehicle on the road... the same road you are sharing, has at least two mirrors... some, 3 or more, and you and others dismiss them for reasons of "comfort, convenience, durability and maintenance and distraction?" Surely you jest.

Do you drive? Do you not see the utility of a mirror then?

Perhaps you just have never used a decent bike mirror... there are indeed a bunch of poor bike mirrors out there, so I can understand that issue.
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Old 07-18-16, 06:42 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Personally.... for me... the day I return home from a bicycle ride frustrated enough to post a piece like the OP. That will be the day I hang-up my bike (maybe) for the last time.

There is a lot of medical conditions that can cause emotional responses similar to what is described. But I know of no events that occur during a bicycle ride that would normally cause such a high frustration level.

I don't know if I even believe in the frustration-aggression hypotheses but one thing is sure... you don't sound (read) like a happy cyclist. How can cycling the same roads (and with the same motorist) be such a joy for most cyclists... yet be a source of aggravation for you?

Fear (and it's resulting anger) is an internally generated emotion. If it was me....... I'd look inside myself to find the source of whatever is stealing the cycling fun.
Dave, really? You've "never" had a day with one too many close idiot calls? Really?

Perhaps you cycle in Nervana, I know a time or two I have put up the bike after a bad commute... and anyone with a decent sense of observation can see that not all drivers are fully with the program.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:12 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Fear (and it's resulting anger) is an internally generated emotion. If it was me....... I'd look inside myself to find the source of whatever is stealing the cycling fun.


Personally.....for me, bicycling is another mode of transportation, and not necessarily to be looked at as having fun or enjoyment, it's that some days are so much better that others.
My personal wish is that a few motorists would get frustrated enough to hang up their vehicles keys for good, but a number of those motorists just tend to pass their frustrated driving emotions on down the line.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:16 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Personally.... for me... the day I return home from a bicycle ride frustrated enough to post a piece like the OP. That will be the day I hang-up my bike (maybe) for the last time.

There is a lot of medical conditions that can cause emotional responses similar to what is described. But I know of no events that occur during a bicycle ride that would normally cause such a high frustration level.

I don't know if I even believe in the frustration-aggression hypotheses but one thing is sure... you don't sound (read) like a happy cyclist. How can cycling the same roads (and with the same motorist) be such a joy for most cyclists... yet be a source of aggravation for you?

Fear (and it's resulting anger) is an internally generated emotion. If it was me....... I'd look inside myself to find the source of whatever is stealing the cycling fun.
Seriously, the source of whatever is stealing the cycling fun does not reside within me. I am a very happy cyclist. I always expect to have a good time on my rides. However, most people I know have an emotional response to a close call.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:27 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post

I think the mirrors could potentially make me less safe. I could see myself spending an inordinate amount of time checking the mirror. I could see myself avoiding dangers that aren't really there. It would clearly divert my attention away from what is in front of me.

A huge risk in my area would be not seeing a pothole in front of me because I was looking in my mirror.

If potholes are more of a risk than cars, then the dangers of diverted attention is a valid point. Thankfully, potholes are far less of a concern in my area, making a mirror a extremely valuable tool in working urban traffic, and aiding me in better timing my roadway maneuvers.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:29 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
But then, do you leave yourself any run off space to the right? Personally I ride in the right wheel track. If a car approaches (and it's safe to pass) I move right to the white line.

I usually ride from 3-6" from the natural turf on the side of the road if there is not a solid line to my left with at least 24" of width. I'm sure drivers appreciate this. If there is a good-sized breakdown lane, I tend to ride "center-right".

Once, my wife crashed because a police car beeped at her in passing (Maybe they considered her out too far?) Do not lose focus.

I'd like to add that when someone beeps, there is really no way of knowing how much, if any, malice is involved.

Old people get frightened (and angry). Teens like to play a prank. Some people who aren't thinking clearly might just want to signal their presence. Some are just having a bad day. All we can do is thank our lucky stars and refuse to let one event spoil the ride.

Last edited by 1989Pre; 07-18-16 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:32 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Every other vehicle on the road... the same road you are sharing, has at least two mirrors... some, 3 or more, and you and others dismiss them for reasons of "comfort, convenience, durability and maintenance and distraction?" Surely you jest.

Do you drive? Do you not see the utility of a mirror then?

Perhaps you just have never used a decent bike mirror... there are indeed a bunch of poor bike mirrors out there, so I can understand that issue.
I don't think comparing mirrors on a motor vehicle with mirrors on a bicycle is fair. But please don't misinterpret my position as anti- mirror. Mirrors on a car are bigger and positioned in a way that you can scan them with a very slight eye movement. The cars suspension gives a clear and stable image of the back and both sides. Since a car isolates you from the driving experience, you wouldn't know what's behind you without mirrors.

The types of mirrors I've seen for road bikes consist of helmet or sunglass mounted versions and mirrors on the handlebar ends. Watching my friends, it seems to require a significant effort and diversion to utilize their mirrors compared to using a mirror in a car. I see their heads turning, I see them searching for an image. You can't deny it is a momentary distraction. The mirrors on the handlebar ends seem pretty useless, based on the impression I get when I pass those riders and I get the feeling they never saw me approaching.

My eyes are constantly moving when i drive. Scanning my mirrors constantly with the slightest eye movement. My head never moves except for the momentary blindspot check.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:35 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by dynodonn View Post
If potholes are more of a risk than cars, then the dangers of diverted attention is a valid point. Thankfully, potholes are far less of a concern in my area, making a mirror a extremely valuable tool in working urban traffic, and aiding me in better timing my roadway maneuvers.
Without a doubt, where I live, the risk of pot holes is greater than the risk of beig hit by a car from behind.
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Old 07-18-16, 07:46 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Just look around the A&S thread. There is not much evidence of supernatural vehicular intervention out there.
Whenever I roll up to my door after doing a long (or short) ride.., that's evidence.
Whenever I wake up in the morning.., that's evidence.

Don't get me wrong, though: I do appreciate your concern for others' welfare.
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Old 07-18-16, 10:18 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
I usually ride from 3-6" from the natural turf on the side of the road if there is not a solid line to my left with at least 24" of width. I'm sure drivers appreciate this. If there is a good-sized breakdown lane, I tend to ride "center-right".

Once, my wife crashed because a police car beeped at her in passing (Maybe they considered her out too far?) Do not lose focus.

I'd like to add that when someone beeps, there is really no way of knowing how much, if any, malice is involved.

Old people get frightened (and angry). Teens like to play a prank. Some people who aren't thinking clearly might just want to signal their presence. Some are just having a bad day. All we can do is thank our lucky stars and refuse to let one event spoil the ride.

Wow, well, do whatever is best for you, but I consider riding that close to the edge of the road an invitation for motorists to pass too closely. I have a mirror and I see them coming up behind, and I move over when safe, but even then I am not 3-6" from the edge of the pavement. Maybe 12" sometimes.

For what it's worth, I think most non-aggressive beepers (not the people who hold the horn) are just trying to alert you that they're there and they're passing you. I find it annoying, but it is usually not meant to be malicious.
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Old 07-18-16, 10:46 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter View Post
Personally.... for me... the day I return home from a bicycle ride frustrated enough to post a piece like the OP. That will be the day I hang-up my bike (maybe) for the last time.

There is a lot of medical conditions that can cause emotional responses similar to what is described. But I know of no events that occur during a bicycle ride that would normally cause such a high frustration level.

I don't know if I even believe in the frustration-aggression hypotheses but one thing is sure... you don't sound (read) like a happy cyclist. How can cycling the same roads (and with the same motorist) be such a joy for most cyclists... yet be a source of aggravation for you?

Fear (and it's resulting anger) is an internally generated emotion. If it was me....... I'd look inside myself to find the source of whatever is stealing the cycling fun.
ummm...ALL emotions are internally generated, and most people experience the range of them through the course of a single day. If you are incapable of experiencing fear, anger and frustration, you might have issues.
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Old 07-18-16, 11:17 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
A huge risk in my area would be not seeing a pothole in front of me because I was looking in my mirror.
That's exactly why I use a mirror; glancing at the mirror keeps the road in front of me in peripheral vision. That way I can save the shoulder check for when the mirror appears to be showing me clear road behind and I just need to verify that.
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Old 07-18-16, 01:01 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH View Post
That's exactly why I use a mirror; glancing at the mirror keeps the road in front of me in peripheral vision. That way I can save the shoulder check for when the mirror appears to be showing me clear road behind and I just need to verify that.
What you are saying seems counter-intuitive. Looking behind you helps you prepare for what's in front of you? I'm sure you develop a skill at using a bike mirror after awhile, just like anything else. My observation of my fellow riders is that the mirror gives a very limited image. It requires more than just a glance of the eye. I see my friends moving their heads quite a bit when they use their mirrors to scan behind them. Perhaps the mirror shifts or whatever it is attached to shifts. I know that they are not looking at the road in front of them.
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Old 07-18-16, 01:17 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
What you are saying seems counter-intuitive. Looking behind you helps you prepare for what's in front of you? I'm sure you develop a skill at using a bike mirror after awhile, just like anything else. My observation of my fellow riders is that the mirror gives a very limited image. It requires more than just a glance of the eye. I see my friends moving their heads quite a bit when they use their mirrors to scan behind them. Perhaps the mirror shifts or whatever it is attached to shifts. I know that they are not looking at the road in front of them.
I look in the mirror for like half a second at a time. If they're staring at it they're doing it wrong. It's no more distracting--maybe less--than the 3 mirrors in my car.
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Old 07-18-16, 01:40 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I look in the mirror for like half a second at a time. If they're staring at it they're doing it wrong. It's no more distracting--maybe less--than the 3 mirrors in my car.
You are more skilled than most of my friends.
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Old 07-18-16, 02:03 PM
  #43  
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Wife and I were driving (not riding a bike) yesterday and had a cyclist (was riding on the white line) make a sudden move into our lane. Fortunate for him; My wife sometimes bikes with me and is aware of being courteous/cautious overtaking cyclists and has good driving handling reaction skills. This cyclist almost ruined our day. And this isn't the only jackass move by a road biker I've seen this summer. Do you see my point? I don't know what the guy was doing but there was no excuse for suddenly crossing over into the lane given the amount of clean shoulder right of the line.
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Old 07-18-16, 02:22 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
What you are saying seems counter-intuitive. Looking behind you helps you prepare for what's in front of you? I'm sure you develop a skill at using a bike mirror after awhile, just like anything else. My observation of my fellow riders is that the mirror gives a very limited image. It requires more than just a glance of the eye. I see my friends moving their heads quite a bit when they use their mirrors to scan behind them. Perhaps the mirror shifts or whatever it is attached to shifts. I know that they are not looking at the road in front of them.
If you keep the adjustments tight, and make sure the mirror is lined up properly before you get up to speed, it's not hard to simply glance at the mirror to scan 1-2 lanes of traffic you need to be concerned with. My only concern on 90% of mirror checks is whether there's a car within ~100 yards on roads 45mph and under.
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Old 07-18-16, 02:39 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Luke Jackson View Post
You cannot claim to be "hyper aware" if your sight is only focused forward and your only clue at what is coming up behind you is your ears.
Just sayin...
yes you can, the magic is in the friction
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Old 07-18-16, 02:43 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
Without a doubt, where I live, the risk of pot holes is greater than the risk of beig hit by a car from behind.
once a hole is there, it stays there, doesnt it?
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Old 07-18-16, 02:47 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Dave, really? You've "never" had a day with one too many close idiot calls? Really?
Are you kidding!?!? I once laid down my bicycle with the idea of pulling a guy from his car. He drove off. I took a couple of deep breaths.... and had a nice laugh. It was a great ride... and a great day. So yes... I have also seen idiots. And NO... never once a bad cycling day!
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Old 07-18-16, 03:22 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by italktocats View Post
once a hole is there, it stays there, doesnt it?
ummmm....yes???
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Old 07-18-16, 05:06 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by italktocats View Post
once a hole is there, it stays there, doesnt it?
You've never seen our potholes then. They don't so much move as morph daily.
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Old 07-18-16, 06:12 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Equinox View Post
I don't think comparing mirrors on a motor vehicle with mirrors on a bicycle is fair. But please don't misinterpret my position as anti- mirror. Mirrors on a car are bigger and positioned in a way that you can scan them with a very slight eye movement. The cars suspension gives a clear and stable image of the back and both sides. Since a car isolates you from the driving experience, you wouldn't know what's behind you without mirrors.

The types of mirrors I've seen for road bikes consist of helmet or sunglass mounted versions and mirrors on the handlebar ends. Watching my friends, it seems to require a significant effort and diversion to utilize their mirrors compared to using a mirror in a car. I see their heads turning, I see them searching for an image. You can't deny it is a momentary distraction. The mirrors on the handlebar ends seem pretty useless, based on the impression I get when I pass those riders and I get the feeling they never saw me approaching.

My eyes are constantly moving when i drive. Scanning my mirrors constantly with the slightest eye movement. My head never moves except for the momentary blindspot check.
Like I said... get better mirrors... a lot of them are crap and too concave... shop around. Motorcycle mirrors are about the same location on handlebars and work OK.
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