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One way to get flattened

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One way to get flattened

Old 10-27-16, 05:52 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by SHBR
I find it rather amusing that the other poster who resides in Shanghai fails to realize that many if not most accidents are likely to happen when the light is green and you have the right of way. I don't run lights either, mostly because I'd rather not be caught out setting a bad example. I'm under no illusions that the color of the traffic light will protect me.
You do realize the lights take turns being green, right? Somebody has the right of way in every accident. You run a light, or they run a light, does it matter who? Collision.

Or are you saying other people should stop for red, but you're too good for all that?

Last edited by Yan; 10-27-16 at 05:56 AM.
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Old 10-27-16, 06:49 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by jeichelberg87
Evidently, she failed to follow safety guidelines.
& that's the OP's point: don't follow 'safety guidelines' and you'll get flattened. And Shaina's story is shared to support the OP; and counter posts that nobody ever get's hurt running red lights.

Originally Posted by lostarchitect
She didn't look where she was going. If she had looked, she would have seen the car and stopped. After the car passed, she could have gone through the red light with no issues. The problem here is not rolling the red light, it's not paying attention. I always look for cars at intersections, even when the light is green.
Shaina made a mistake, she believed the car that stopped for the group of riders in front of her was letting her through too (read the links posted). She saw the SUV, she didn't read the driver's intent correctly. However, the fact remains, she ran a red light and ended up with a TBI. If she stopped for the red light, she'd have biked with Babes in Bikeland this year, instead of watching from her wheelchair.

Final thought: car versus bike, bike will lose every time. Drivers that get mad at 'dangerous bikers' running red lights are effing morons. No SUV driver has ended up in the ER from a biker running a red light. 6,000 lbs of steel, airbags, seatbelts ... there's nothing for them to worry about from 165 lbs of biker. The ONLY person that is going to get hurt is the biker. If you have a death-wish, please run all the red lights. (yes, the SUV can still get you while following the 'safety guidelines'; I have a long list of names I can share of riders 'doing it right' that are now nothing more than a memory and a ghost bike).

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 10-27-16 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 10-27-16, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
When I lived in Toronto, Canada I saw a number of red light/stop sign running bicyclists get hit. i saw a LOT more auto accidents those scofflaw bicyclists caused as cars tried to avoid hitting them. 99% of the time the bicyclist causing the accident took off.
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
I don't expect to get the truth from people who get worked up about stuff like this. I also find it difficult to find credible anyone who really thinks that there are cyclists who maliciously fly through intersections at speed , expecting cross traffic to react in a way that ensures their safety. That crap only happens in action movies and it takes several takes before they get something they can put in theaters.
I also am skeptical of posters who rant about "scofflaw bicyclists" and the alleged carnage they cause.

I never saw any accidents or injuries caused by a cyclist running a red light or stop sign in 60+ years of cycling and crossing streets when I felt it was safe, regardless of the traffic light/stop sign.
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Old 10-27-16, 08:45 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
...I never saw any accidents or injuries caused by a cyclist running a red light or stop sign in 60+ years of cycling and crossing streets when I felt it was safe, regardless of the traffic light/stop sign.
I have about 45 years experience cycling in a city grid where cyclists running red lights and stop signs is the norm by far. Like 99% go when they can. Of course, the local motorists are used to it and I believe generally grateful in most cases, especially when negotiating a dozen stop signs, one at every corner for half a mile. I can't really TRUST any motorist to grant me right of way when I don't have it, but more often than not I get waved through, or I wave them through far in advance.

My point (finally)...45 years in a city grid witnessing tens of thousands of cyclists running red lights and never seen a problem with it. Once or twice a year the news may report on a cyclist getting killed running a red AND going contraflow at the same time (how would he/she KNOW the light was red anyway?). Other than that...no issues.

Also, a friend of my just got back from a honeymoon in Italy. In Rome, he claims, even motorized scooters are exempt from obeying the lights. Looks like mayhem at first glance but he never saw anyone hit.

Seems to me the Boogeyman still resides under some adult's beds.
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Last edited by JoeyBike; 10-27-16 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 10-27-16, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
If you have a death-wish, please run all the red lights. (yes, the SUV can still get you while following the 'safety guidelines'; I have a long list of names I can share of riders 'doing it right' that are now nothing more than a memory and a ghost bike).
Thank you!! The bolded crystalizes the essential FAIL of this threads premise. How long is the list of names you can share of riders doing it wrong? Buy you a condo if that list is even half as long as the list of riders doing it right. Ever see a high wire artist fall to their death when working without a safety net? Me either. I've never seen any of them fall into a safety net either, but I KNOW that the list of high wire artists that have fallen into safety nets is longer than the list of those that have died from not having nets. The higher risk focuses the artist pushes them to extract every ounce of talent they possess. Or else. Red light runners make it more often than not because they have to. They know that. The rest of you are just pantywaist haters.

Last edited by Leisesturm; 10-27-16 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 10-27-16, 09:32 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Thank you!! The bolded crystalizes the essential FAIL of this threads premise. How long is the list of names you can share of riders doing it wrong? Buy you a condo if that list is even half as long as the list of riders doing it right. Ever see a high wire artist fall to their death when working without a safety net? Me either. I've never seen any of them fall into a safety net either, but I KNOW that the list of high wire artists that have fallen into safety nets is longer than the list of those that have died from not having nets. The higher risk focuses the artist pushes them to extract every ounce of talent they possess. Or else. Red light runners make it more often than not because they have to. They know that. The rest of you are just pantywaist haters.
Yes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Wallenda

Are you calling me a "pantywaist hater"? I'm not sayin' your wrong, just not sure who you're directing that at.

Last edited by Hypno Toad; 10-27-16 at 10:28 AM. Reason: if it doesn't have an edit, I've been hacked
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Old 10-27-16, 09:52 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast
Quite frankly, I am shooting for a massive heart attack in my own bed in the middle of the night.
I want to go at age 90 being shot by a jealous husband while sneaking out a bedroom window.
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Old 10-27-16, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
I want to go at age 90 being shot by a jealous husband while sneaking out a bedroom window.
Me too. And there's some conjecture that one of my ancestors died exactly that way.

The same one that married a woman with two sisters, hired both sisters as housekeepers, then proceeded to have three children within two months of each other. (All the documentation says his wife had all three, but that seems a bit unlikely.)
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Old 10-27-16, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
& that's the OP's point: don't follow 'safety guidelines' and you'll get flattened. And Shaina's story is shared to support the OP; and counter posts that nobody ever get's hurt running red lights.
No. As you correctly point out in this next paragraph, the safety guideline she failed to follow is:

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
... she believed the car that stopped for the group of riders in front of her was letting her through too (read the links posted). She saw the SUV, she didn't read the driver's intent correctly.
See? You know what she did wrong...the other three cyclists did know what was going on. Unfortunately, in this case, she did not.

Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Final thought: car versus bike, bike will lose every time. Drivers that get mad at 'dangerous bikers' running red lights are effing morons. No SUV driver has ended up in the ER from a biker running a red light. 6,000 lbs of steel, airbags, seatbelts ... there's nothing for them to worry about from 165 lbs of biker. The ONLY person that is going to get hurt is the biker. If you have a death-wish, please run all the red lights without thoroughly examining the totality of your circumstances!
FIFY
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Old 10-27-16, 03:47 PM
  #60  
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Old 10-27-16, 04:00 PM
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Yes. Handle it.
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Old 10-27-16, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
You stop first...
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Old 10-27-16, 11:02 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Yan
You do realize the lights take turns being green, right? Somebody has the right of way in every accident. You run a light, or they run a light, does it matter who? Collision.

Or are you saying other people should stop for red, but you're too good for all that?
Right of way is a joke in China, in case you haven't noticed. How will that help after you end up in the ER or worse?

I actually follow the traffic rules if it is safe to do so, however I don't expect them to offer any protection against those who don't.
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Old 10-27-16, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Right of way is a joke in China, in case you haven't noticed. How will that help after you end up in the ER or worse?

I actually follow the traffic rules if it is safe to do so, however I don't expect them to offer any protection against those who don't.
Let's not over exaggerate. Right of way is poorly followed here, but it could be a lot worse. Anyone who dismisses the concept altogether is simply adding to the problem. Do you want India traffic in Shanghai?

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Old 10-28-16, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Yan
Let's not over exaggerate. Right of way is poorly followed here, but it could be a lot worse. Anyone who dismisses the concept altogether is simply adding to the problem. Do you want India traffic in Shanghai?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjrEQaG5jPM
Worse? Heh, that video looks quite sane actually, no accidents even. No false expectations about right of way, the biggest vehicle wins everytime, even most animals understand this concept. BTW where are the cows, elephants and other animals? I've encountered many animals on Chinese roads, not just the human variety.

The only real solution is completely automated motorised vehicle traffic, something that is possible now, however the public isn't sufficiently trained to accept it.

Here is a perfect example of a cyclist in Minnesota that had right of way, however if the motorist had failed to hit the brakes it would have ended up much worse.


My response to such a situation after living in China would be to cut left and go around them, when it became clear that they had no intention of stopping. (the video shows this happens before the cyclist enters the intersection, as he was also aware of this by using his voice)

So yeah, if you think you can get others to follow the traffic rules, more power to you. In China its a lost cause that will only end in failure.

Here are the elephants.

Last edited by SHBR; 10-28-16 at 06:05 AM.
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Old 10-28-16, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad
Drivers that get mad at 'dangerous bikers' running red lights are effing morons.
I am a driver (and cyclist) who gets mad at 'dangerous bikers" running red lights.

- They make cyclists in general look bad.
- They may influence others or kids to think "this is okay to do".
- I NEVER want to hit a single person due to their own stupidity. Ever. As a decent human being, it would haunt me even if the dumbest person chose to rush out in front of my car and I could absolutely nothing to avoid him/her.
- The damage caused to my vehicle can never be reclaimed, and it's not even MY FAULT. I'm not going to pretend her life is so important mine should just be put on hold, but losing a few hundred dollars+time - for some people - is no laughing matter.
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Old 10-28-16, 06:14 AM
  #67  
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Oh no! Somebody might dig your precious SUV while sustaining a life-changing TBI... I'll stand by my quoted text in the above post.
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Old 10-28-16, 09:20 AM
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Not just that, but someone running a red light and getting flattened by your car will likely file or have family members filing a lawsuit against you, even though you had the right of way and there was nothing you could do to prevent the accident. Months or even years after the fact, who's going to prove who had the green light?
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Old 10-28-16, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by keyven
- They make cyclists in general look bad.
No one cares.

Originally Posted by keyven
- They may influence others or kids to think "this is okay to do".
It is OK to do.

Originally Posted by keyven
- I NEVER want to hit a single person due to their own stupidity. Ever. As a decent human being, it would haunt me even if the dumbest person chose to rush out in front of my car and I could absolutely nothing to avoid him/her.
Be responsible for yourself, not others, that's all you can ever do.

Originally Posted by keyven
- The damage caused to my vehicle can never be reclaimed, and it's not even MY FAULT. I'm not going to pretend her life is so important mine should just be put on hold, but losing a few hundred dollars+time - for some people - is no laughing matter.
Oh lord, think of the cars.
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Old 10-28-16, 03:39 PM
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A very long time ago I learned to look at vehicles approaching stop signs on the road they are traveling along even when the road I'm traveling on that crosses their road has no stops sign at the intersection thus giving me the right of way. Far too many times the driver or bicyclist approaching their stop sign drives/rides right past it into the intersection. With the increase in distracted/uncaring drivers/bicyclists I'm seeing this happening more often.

Reminds me of the joke where a passenger in a car is scared to death because the driver blows through red lights all the time because the driver's brother does it all the time. However when the driver cameto a green light he slammed on the brakes because as he explained to his perplexed passenger - the driver's brother might be coming along the cross road.

The problem with stop sign and/or red light runners is that they often run either where the sight line for them is just not that good. With electric vehicles the risks of relying on hearing to tell if something is coming your way is much greater as electric vehicles are very nearly silent.

Red light runners, stop sign runners and wrong-direction riders are a hazard to all not just to themselves.

Cheers
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Old 10-28-16, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by keyven
I am a driver (and cyclist) who gets mad at 'dangerous bikers" running red lights.

- They make cyclists in general look bad.
Stereotype much in all other worldviews?

Let us rephrase the statement...

"I am a cyclist (and driver) who gets mad at "dangerous drivers" running red lights.

- They make drivers in general look bad."

Have you ever closed a day in your life with that thought?
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Old 10-28-16, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
A very long time ago I learned to look at vehicles approaching stop signs on the road they are traveling along even when the road I'm traveling on that crosses their road has no stops sign at the intersection thus giving me the right of way. Far too many times the driver or bicyclist approaching their stop sign drives/rides right past it into the intersection. With the increase in distracted/uncaring drivers/bicyclists I'm seeing this happening more often.

Reminds me of the joke where a passenger in a car is scared to death because the driver blows through red lights all the time because the driver's brother does it all the time. However when the driver cameto a green light he slammed on the brakes because as he explained to his perplexed passenger - the driver's brother might be coming along the cross road.

The problem with stop sign and/or red light runners is that they often run either where the sight line for them is just not that good. With electric vehicles the risks of relying on hearing to tell if something is coming your way is much greater as electric vehicles are very nearly silent.

Red light runners, stop sign runners and wrong-direction riders are a hazard to all not just to themselves.

Cheers

Kindly explain the video showing traffic in India.
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Old 10-28-16, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Once or twice a year the news may report on a cyclist getting killed running a red AND going contraflow at the same time (how would he/she KNOW the light was red anyway?)
IF it is a four way intersection would there not be red, yellow and green lights for all directions? North and south bound traffic would have a red light at the same time, right?
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Old 10-28-16, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jeichelberg87
Kindly explain the video showing traffic in India.
Forget about India!

Most here are talking about running red lights and/or stop signs here in North American and the likely results of doing so.

Cheers
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Old 10-28-16, 08:12 PM
  #75  
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Gosh, I'd reckon that half of the world population lives in China and India, somehow they seem to manage. In China I would say the sense of entitlement is fast approaching North American levels, and the results aren't pretty.

Last edited by SHBR; 10-28-16 at 08:19 PM.
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