American Euchre

There's certainly no harm in running daytime lights.

But most people are lazy and won't do anything that they're not absolutely required to do. Take seatbelts for example.

It takes effort to buy bike lights. To attach them. To remember to recharge the batteries. To remember to turn them on. It's just a little extra effort and most people don't want to invest that little bit of extra time and energy beyond what's absolutely necessary.

On top of that, 90% of bike accessories strike me as cheesy and esthetically unpleasing.

I have 4 taillights.
One is attached to the seat post purely as a backup.
I have a helmet taillight which is always on at night, and sometimes on in the day.
A third is attached to the rack, and the batteries are close to done.
A fourth is a $1 special from china bay. It works ok. Its attached to the rack bag, flopping around and tilted at various odd angles as the light bounces around during a ride.

None of it looks especially nice, but the helmet tail light works reasonably well enough on it's own. But it's nice to have the rest as a backup. Plus, I'm too lazy to change the batteries on the rack light until the batteries are down to zero.

ClydeTim

I can see your point about riding at night without a blinkie but around here, you'd get a ticket. Lost of traffic and lots of cops out. So I use one for that and safety.

I do however follow the same principle, stay out of harms way and don't put yourself in danger. I do ride backstreets where traffic is 35 and plenty of stop signs to control traffic speeds and wide lanes. I do see other cyclists on the main roads, 1/8 mile away with traffic at 50 and no shoulder. I can never figure that one out.

Not to mention I travel north and south which keeps me out of the "blinded by sunset" traffic.

I do have a usb charging rear light. Very nice, like always having a fresh set of batteries, only $25 and well worth it.

kingston 

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't believe that I'm the only American who thinks blinking bike lights are annoying, and I don't believe that using blinking bike lights improves rider safety. I also don't believe that our government is very good at assessing risk so your DOT argument is completely lost on me.

Chris0516

There is another reason why blinking/strobe lights are annoying. Some people with epilepsy, who have seizures as a result of blinking/strobe lights. While I have epilepsy, I don't have seizures from blinking/strobe lights.

I replaced my Niterider MiNewt 600(600 lumens; came out in 2013 no longer made) even though it still works. With the Niderider Lumina 750(750 lumens) Boost. Apart from the obvious difference lumens. Niterider slowed down the speed of the strobe setting. Because of the strobe function causing seizures in people with epilepsy, who are vulnerable to flashing lights.

When I am on my bike I use the strobe. It doesn't cause me to have seizures.

Leisesturm

That trope has been debunked time and again but it just won't die. Given the bolded above, why did you even bring it up?? Did you know that in most states a seizure means a two year revocation of your driving privileges. Its a BIG DEAL. If blinkies were causing seizures in even 0.01% of susceptible drivers they would be banned outright and manufacturers would be paying damages retroactively.

jefnvk

The OP asked about $5 lights, not good lights, which I fully qualified may make a difference. I have a light on the back of my helmet. I turn it on at night, dusk, in the rain, etc., but I don't think it does one bit of good in the day, and it is every bit as bright as the cheap set of "be seen" $10 urban lights I keep in the closest thing I have to a city commuter. I specifically said that a set of nice lights may make a difference, but I don't personally own a set of nice lights, because I don't generally ride at night. I own a set of adequate lights, and a couple sets of generator lights, for those off times.

And I don't have daytime running lights on my car (one of my few complaints about Ford), but again thinking that the luminosity of a bike light is anything approaching a car is silly. I've owned motorcycles as well, I know how well those lights (again, brighter than most bike lights) don't work on many drivers.

But, this is all your or my opinions. Do you mostly ride with hi-viz orange or yellow clothing, as I do? DO you carefully pick your routes on public roads to avoid traffic, as I do? I'd be willing to bet there are a few precautions I feel appropriate that you dismiss.

Chris0516

I brought up. In that, I both agree, and disagree with the use of strobe lights. The serve a function in emergency situations(better than the old-style spinning lights that were commonly used in fire/police/ambulance vehicles). But they also have the potential for causing a seizure.

I should not have included blinkies(taillights). But flashing lights in general, can cause a seizure for those with photo-sensitive seizures.

Photosensitivity and Seizures | Epilepsy Foundation

Bright, Flashing, or Flourescent Lights | Epilepsy Foundation

While you are right about a person being banned from driving for two years in most states. The above links refer to those who are passengers in a vehicle, not the driver.

The two-year ban would be a moot point with this kind of epilepsy. Because, Unless a driver's epilepsy changes, a driver would automatically lose their license, not getting it back, or never being able to get one in the first place.

Leisesturm

I'll assume that the disco ball thing is sarcasm, but that your disdain for idiot motorists is a true reflection of your world-view. Actually, the majority of road users are fairly competent. Beyond a token amount of visibility enhancement there really is no need to become "annoying". It is my opinion that civil interaction has been eroding for years and recent events have touched off a spike in random violence. Only around 25% of hit and runs are ever solved. It would be quite ironic, I think, for a cyclist to invest money and time to become annoying to drivers as an aid to safety, and instead become the tragic victim of a deliberate vehicle strike by one of the growing number of people with extremely low thresholds of annoyance.

AlmostTrick

Since you know how many hit and runs are solved, maybe you can tell us what percentage of vehicle strikes are deliberate while you're at it.

Leisesturm

Surely a minuscule (but not nonexistent) amount. And? What? Does not negate the irony potential if one occurred.

Leisesturm

Mainly because of this thread, I paid very close attention yesterday and this morning, on the effect my lights had on drivers, and other cyclists, and vice versa. There is a T intersection that has a bike lane at the top of the T. I usually thread my way through any two cars stopped at the light and turn left into the bike lane. My flamethrower MagicShine is swinging right past the driver in the car on my right. Unavoidable, and lasts less than a second. No reaction. One of the streets I ride is a designated bike-way, and I am heading east against the main flow of millenials heading in to town to start their workdays. 90% of headlights are flashing, pulsing, or strobing, or all of the preceding at once! The rest are steady, as is mine, and a tiny fraction (really tiny, like two, in dozens) are running ninja.

Bicycle headlights (taillights too) can be up high on helmets, lower on bars, or even lower on fork crowns, or fork legs. Do you know how many automobiles cannot be imported into the U.S. because their headlights are too high (or too low) for DOT regulations? Bicycles are about the most unregulated human conveyances that exist. That should change. Or not, but I reject the assertion of some of you that a bicycle is a legal road vehicle at all! I love bikes, I love biking, but a legal road-going vehicle I ain't. Which is fine by me. Just don't attempt to tax or otherwise profit from my use of the road. And definitely, keep your cool when I blast that red. But I digress...

I have no blinkers on the rear on this bike but I have armbands that flash. Again, 90% or more of the taillights I see are flashing in every way possible, from a mild one or two flashes per second, to all manner of bizarro patterns. I did not see even one pedestrian or shotgun passenger exhibiting signs of incipient or active seizure.

To say that lights or hi-viz do not increase visibility cannot be allowed to be a "let's agree to disagree". One could argue that even without the enhanced visibility ones chances of survival in traffic are quite decent. But, let's not kid ourselves, with a light on your bike, you are more visible to cars, bikes and pedestrians than otherwise. There can be, and should not be any argument about that. In the dusk and dark all you can see of an approaching cyclist is their headlight, if they have one! People put flashing collars on their dogs, and flashers on their children or their children's back-packs and they themselves go out at night with nothing brighter than a navy blue tracksuit. Who is going to feed the dog when you get the Mother of All DNF's?

In broad daylight I do not use any lights. I do not feel it is necessary. I add hours of runtime to my battery pack each week by NOT using it when the sun is shining. To say nothing of the untold hours of additional battery pack life over its expected lifetime! Same goes for my flashers. They use C2032 batteries, and they aren't cheap (the batteries), nor do they last especially long. Preserving their limited life for the nighttime hours is a worthwhile trade-off as far as I am concerned. The proof in the pudding, I think, is the fact that I am writing this after decades of commutes in NYC, MI and OR respectively.

adablduya

if the driver said he couldn't see you with your headlight on strobe, he is completely incompetent. on my daily commute home thru a small town, now in the dark, i turn my headlight to strobe mode exactly to be sure i'm seen; steady state will only blend in and not make me stand out. strobe mode is impossible to miss, unless of course, one is totally incompetent (including being oblivious ...). to those who suggest that it is distracting, then no better reason to have it on as i'm achieving my intention. keep that strobe on, i say !

adablduya

so, please tell me i'm getting you wrong here... are you seriously suggesting that the hit-and-runs are more likely to occur as a result of "annoyance" due to the use of "visibility enhancements" ? please.....

Leisesturm

Of course not. Visibility enhancements are encouraged. All bets are off, however, if the number of rear flashers exceeds two, and the potential for aggression goes up dramatically if sequins and/or Disco Balls are involved. Do you see the difference?

mr_bill

I think he's suggesting that there is a strong anti-Disco sentiment on the road.


-mr. bill

adablduya

cute ! i will say, though, that in addition to my 2 flashing red blinkies on the back (one on the helmet, one on the rack), i wear a Tracer360 visibility vest. impossible for any driver to say he didn't see me.....

FBinNY 

Trying to stay realistic, the number of intentional attacks remains very small, despite any so-called annoyance factor, or supposed hatred of bicyclists.

Just about all hit an runs started as accidents - unintentional crashes - with the running because of unwillingness to deal with the consequences. Many if not most involve a specific reason for running, such as no or suspended license, alcohol, no insurance, etc.

FWIW the number of car/bicycle fatalities mirrors ridership trends more than anything else. So far, cell phones and texting haven't led to a dramatic uptick, and more use of brighter lighting hasn't led to a drop. So, unless you want to believe that these magically cancel each other out, it's reasonable to assume that the various changes are at the fringes.

I expect that the biggest changes await us as automated crash avoidance systems begin to be seen on an increasing portion of the cars on the road.

Meanwhile, bicycling on our public roads remains relatively safe, though riding smart is always a good idea.

hotbike

Been running a 12 volt system, day and night. Rear "Tractor" reflector is now accented with LED strips. Gotta "box-in" the rear wheel with Coroplast™ Panniers BEFORE you can add the SMV (Slow Moving Vehicle Sign):
LED Bicycle Headlights by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

kingston 

Nobody on this thread has claimed that lights or hi-vis do not increase visibility.

What I said is that I don't believe that lights during the daytime or blinking lights ever do anything to improve rider safety. There's no evidence one way or the other on either of those points so we have no choice but to agree to disagree.

Leebo

No sarcasm, will post pics later on install. Competent? Ever been to Boston, MA? Where we vie for the top 5 spot of worst drivers year after year. Been rear ended 4 times in my car here. 4. Annoying? I just want them to put down the phones and see me. That is all.

Leebo

The evidence is here, you chose not to see.

bobwysiwyg

I've had drivers pull up next to me at lights and thank me for my lights as well as hi-vis clothing, they really noticed me unlike many who use no light, dark bikes and dark clothing. At least 'they' noticed me more easily.

drlogik 

I ride in the city every day and can tell everyone that where I live, riding with lights burning during the day makes drivers stop, use more caution, let me pass and/or give me right-of-way more often than not running day lights. The days that I leave without a light, I might be invisible that day or sometimes drivers just don't care to see me but they do behave differently. The bright strobing light definitely makes them take pause.

Is this statistically sound data? No, but in the last few months the few times a motorist has pulled out in front of me, cut me off, or similar was when I was not burning my front and rear lights. That's statistically accurate enough for me though!

Chris0516

The driver was a female, but they aren't any better. Yes she was incompetent. Your reason for having your headlight on strobe, is exactly why, I had my light on strobe. I had previously kept it on a steady setting.

jefnvk

FWIW, driving home tonite, there was a bike riding the wrong way against traffic with lights. First thing that identified it as a bike to me? The reflectors on the pedals. Didn't even notice the light until I figured out what it was.

Lights are no guarantee of identification or avoidance of a bike, even at night, and people see things differently.