On drugs and reaching for a phone
12-12-16, 10:13 AM
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On drugs and reaching for a phone
A very bad combination with a tragic result Indictment: Ga. driver on drugs, answering phone when she killed cyclist from Minn. - StarTribune.com
12-12-16, 11:16 AM
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Being on drugs rarely is a good idea when driving, whatever the coincident activities may be. That said, it appears more likely to my eyes that she had taken several prescriptions medications, and may or may not have been impaired be these at the time of the accident. Also is not mentioned if she was under a physians care and were the drugs prescribed for her and the and levels of the discovered drugs was not stated. Howver there must be a reason for the first degree homicide charges rather than a lesser charge.
12-12-16, 12:15 PM
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Stupidity happens anywhere. Even close to 'home'. I have relatives in Athens. I am glad that driver is off the road.
12-12-16, 12:31 PM
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Yes, so a person driving and doing two or more things that they should not be doing while behind the wheel in the first place and someone with a history of doing the same. Hopefully her child will be raised by someone else who will be a better care giver and not drive them around while under the influence and fooking with a telephone.
Edit: That was harsh. I hope she gets the help she needs and returns from prison to be a productive member of society. Just makes me mad that anyone is killed while they are enjoying life, especially by someone who should have already been on house arrest (at minimum) for the two DUI incidents in the previous months.
Edit: That was harsh. I hope she gets the help she needs and returns from prison to be a productive member of society. Just makes me mad that anyone is killed while they are enjoying life, especially by someone who should have already been on house arrest (at minimum) for the two DUI incidents in the previous months.
Last edited by Number400; 12-12-16 at 12:43 PM.
12-12-16, 01:09 PM
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I hope the authority throws away the key on her . There is zero excuse behind the wheel while on 6 drugs , prescription or not . To top it off , she had a kid at the backseat of the car . What kind of mother would put her kid in a such danger situation . She deserves to have kid taking away from her and lock up for a very long time .
12-12-16, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mapeiboy
There is zero excuse behind the wheel while on 6 drugs , prescription or not.
12-12-16, 01:58 PM
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Methadone?
It is somewhat of a unique prescription drug. Perhaps this would stimulate Minnesota, Georgia, and other states to aggressively collect drivers licenses from individuals prescribed the medication. Perhaps also prevent car ownership (or boot their cars).
I wonder if there is any issue with the driver being from Georgia and driving in Minnesota. Crossing jurisdictions always complicates things.
It is somewhat of a unique prescription drug. Perhaps this would stimulate Minnesota, Georgia, and other states to aggressively collect drivers licenses from individuals prescribed the medication. Perhaps also prevent car ownership (or boot their cars).
I wonder if there is any issue with the driver being from Georgia and driving in Minnesota. Crossing jurisdictions always complicates things.
12-12-16, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Hmmm...aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen, caffeine, nicotine....nope, I guess five is my personal record.
12-12-16, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Hmmm...aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen, caffeine, nicotine....nope, I guess five is my personal record.
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12-12-16, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Hmmm...aspirin, naproxen, ibuprofen, caffeine, nicotine....nope, I guess five is my personal record.
The thing is, the woman was in drug rehab (Methadone). She should never have been behind the wheel.
12-12-16, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
Theobromine? Ethanol?
The thing is, the woman was in drug rehab (Methadone). She should never have been behind the wheel.
The thing is, the woman was in drug rehab (Methadone). She should never have been behind the wheel.
12-12-16, 08:02 PM
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FWIW - here's an explanation of Georgia's vehicular homicide laws. Note that 1st degree vehicular homicide, is not the same as 1st degree murder (with intent), and probably in line with 1st degree mansalughter (though I didn't look it up and compare).
In any case, it seems this case warrants the charge under the law because of the numerous aggravating circumstances.
All in all, it seems to be a reasonable law reasonably applied, and I'm happy to leave it to the judge and jury to achieve some degree of justice.
In any case, it seems this case warrants the charge under the law because of the numerous aggravating circumstances.
All in all, it seems to be a reasonable law reasonably applied, and I'm happy to leave it to the judge and jury to achieve some degree of justice.
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12-13-16, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mapeiboy
I hope the authority throws away the key on her . There is zero excuse behind the wheel while on 6 drugs , prescription or not . To top it off , she had a kid at the backseat of the car . What kind of mother would put her kid in a such danger situation . She deserves to have kid taking away from her and lock up for a very long time .
Rehab is not a cure, it's tough recovering. And 'locking her up and throwing away the key' is a highly emotional thought that has no basis in penal codes. Drug court will probably mandate that she seek treatment in a closed treatment environment over a long period with counseling and a probationary period in a halfway home with no driving privileges for a long time. After that, time will be evaluated.
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12-13-16, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CB HI
You forgot my only drug of choice, adrenaline from cycling.
They removed the Diet Dew at the gas station so that leaves Diet Shasta and Diet 7-Up, which have no caffeine.
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12-13-16, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by howsteepisit
Unless it has been a long-term maintenance dose. Under that condition, the sedation effect goes away. So says the literature.
It is a very tightly controlled drug, often with in-clinic dosing. Do the recipients also undergo drug testing? Nonetheless, it is often prescribed to addicts.
Were all "six" drugs prescribed? Taken at prescription doses?
Perhaps this is a sign that as a society, we need to be more aware of multi drug interactions. Certainly the elderly often get snowed under by too many prescription drugs, but it can affect others who take multiple drugs for various reasons.
12-13-16, 07:54 AM
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two counts of first-degree homicide for driving under the influence.
nordiazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, amitriptyline, nortriptyline and methadone.
-mr. bill
nordiazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, amitriptyline, nortriptyline and methadone.
-mr. bill
12-13-16, 10:33 AM
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That would appear that that mix was outside of a physician's care. Is a good explaination on the severity of the charges. Sadly messed up girl with tragic consequences for innocent bystanders.
12-13-16, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I looked for Methadone and driving... and didn't see a lot except that it might preclude a CDL.
It is a very tightly controlled drug, often with in-clinic dosing. Do the recipients also undergo drug testing? Nonetheless, it is often prescribed to addicts.
Were all "six" drugs prescribed? Taken at prescription doses?
Perhaps this is a sign that as a society, we need to be more aware of multi drug interactions. Certainly the elderly often get snowed under by too many prescription drugs, but it can affect others who take multiple drugs for various reasons.
It is a very tightly controlled drug, often with in-clinic dosing. Do the recipients also undergo drug testing? Nonetheless, it is often prescribed to addicts.
Were all "six" drugs prescribed? Taken at prescription doses?
Perhaps this is a sign that as a society, we need to be more aware of multi drug interactions. Certainly the elderly often get snowed under by too many prescription drugs, but it can affect others who take multiple drugs for various reasons.
Where I can't comment specifically on "methadone" clinics, I have a bit of experience with the "pain" clinics that doctors forwards patients to who need ongoing pain medications. In the time I used the service I was drug tested every month, along with an in depth consultation/conversation with the prescribing NP or doc and often both. It was clearly stated in the agreement that you weren't allowed to come up dirty for non prescribed substances, to a point that I often had to bring in unused portions of OTC meds I was taking for allergies. It was discussed that I was not allowed to operate machinery or vehicles while taking my prescriptions.
I cannot imagine legal clinic goers being different, but by some of the above posts, she was going to the street pharmacy anyway?
12-15-16, 10:10 AM
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If drivers like this were hung by their ankles at the roadside and bled out like kosher chickens, there could be a deterrent effect on others who have to roll by the corpse.
12-15-16, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast
'locking her up and throwing away the key' is a highly emotional thought that has no basis in penal codes.
12-15-16, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK
I looked for Methadone and driving... and didn't see a lot except that it might preclude a CDL.
Originally Posted by NHTSA on Methadone
...
Medical and Recreational Uses: Methadone is an analgesic prescribed for the relief of moderate to severe pain, and is used in detoxification treatment of opioid dependence and maintenance in narcotic addiction. Compared to morphine, methadone has a much longer duration of action, suppressing opiate withdrawal symptoms and remaining efficacious for an extended period of time with repeated administration. Recreationally, methadone is abused for its sedative and analgesic effects.
...
Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer cautions that methadone may impair the mental and/or physical abilities required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks, and that the sedative effects of the drug may be enhanced by concurrent use of other CNS depressants, including alcohol. In healthy, non-methadone using volunteers, single doses of methadone will impair driving ability. Numerous European studies of long-term methadone maintenance patients have shown that appropriately administered methadone does not cause significant psychomotor or cognitive impairment when administered regularly and when the subject abstains from all other drugs. However, in the majority of cases, patients did not exhibit stable abstinence from drug use and had an increased occurrence of simultaneous psychiatric/neurotic disorders or personality disturbances which, by themselves, could be a reason to doubt their driving ability. In Germany, the Joint Advisory Council for Traffic Medicine at the Federal Ministry of Transport, Building and Housing and the Federal Ministry for Health issued the following recommendation: Heroin addicts treated with methadone are generally not fit to drive; however, these patients may be considered fit to drive if they show a period of methadone substitution for more than a year; stable psychosocial integration; no evidence of the consumption of additional psychotropic substances; evidence of a subject’s readiness to feel responsible for himself/herself; therapy compliance; and no evidence of serious personality defects.
...
Panel’s Assessment of Driving Risks: Moderate to severely impairing in naïve or non-tolerant individuals, causing dose-dependent reductions in reaction time, visual acuity and information processing. Significant psychomotor impairment is not expected in tolerant individuals. Driving ability and driving fitness are nevertheless often limited because of consumption of additional psychotropic substances and psychopathological findings.
...
Medical and Recreational Uses: Methadone is an analgesic prescribed for the relief of moderate to severe pain, and is used in detoxification treatment of opioid dependence and maintenance in narcotic addiction. Compared to morphine, methadone has a much longer duration of action, suppressing opiate withdrawal symptoms and remaining efficacious for an extended period of time with repeated administration. Recreationally, methadone is abused for its sedative and analgesic effects.
...
Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer cautions that methadone may impair the mental and/or physical abilities required for the performance of potentially hazardous tasks, and that the sedative effects of the drug may be enhanced by concurrent use of other CNS depressants, including alcohol. In healthy, non-methadone using volunteers, single doses of methadone will impair driving ability. Numerous European studies of long-term methadone maintenance patients have shown that appropriately administered methadone does not cause significant psychomotor or cognitive impairment when administered regularly and when the subject abstains from all other drugs. However, in the majority of cases, patients did not exhibit stable abstinence from drug use and had an increased occurrence of simultaneous psychiatric/neurotic disorders or personality disturbances which, by themselves, could be a reason to doubt their driving ability. In Germany, the Joint Advisory Council for Traffic Medicine at the Federal Ministry of Transport, Building and Housing and the Federal Ministry for Health issued the following recommendation: Heroin addicts treated with methadone are generally not fit to drive; however, these patients may be considered fit to drive if they show a period of methadone substitution for more than a year; stable psychosocial integration; no evidence of the consumption of additional psychotropic substances; evidence of a subject’s readiness to feel responsible for himself/herself; therapy compliance; and no evidence of serious personality defects.
...
Panel’s Assessment of Driving Risks: Moderate to severely impairing in naïve or non-tolerant individuals, causing dose-dependent reductions in reaction time, visual acuity and information processing. Significant psychomotor impairment is not expected in tolerant individuals. Driving ability and driving fitness are nevertheless often limited because of consumption of additional psychotropic substances and psychopathological findings.
...
Originally Posted by NHTSA on Diazepam
...
Medical and Recreational Uses: Used medicinally in the management of anxiety disorders, as an adjunct for the relief of skeletal muscle spasm and for convulsive disorders/status epilepticus, and as a minor tranquilizer or sedative. Also used to suppress or dampen acute alcohol withdrawal, and anxiety-related gastrointestinal disorders such as stress ulcers. Diazepam is used recreationally as a sedative or to enhance the effects of alcohol or opioids. For example, administration of diazepam 30 minutes after a dose of oral methadone reportedly produces an augmented high. Diazepam is used by cocaine users to increase seizure threshold and by heroin users to enhance the effects of heroin, and by both of these users to reduce the impact of withdrawal symptoms between doses.
...
Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer suggests patients treated with diazepam be cautioned against engaging in hazardous occupations requiring complete mental alertness such as driving a motor vehicle. Simulator and driving studies have shown that diazepam produces significant driving impairment over multiple doses. Single doses of diazepam can increase lateral deviation of lane control, reduce reaction times, reduce ability to perform multiple tasks, decrease attention, adversely effect memory and cognition, and increase the effects of fatigue. Significant impairment is further increased when diazepam is combined with low concentrations of alcohol (0.05 g/100 mL). A number of epidemiological studies have been conducted to evaluate the risk of crashes associated with the use of diazepam and other benzodiazepines. These show a range of relative risk, but most demonstrate increases in risk compared to drug free drivers. These increases have been twice to several fold. The elderly may have an increased risk of a motor vehicle crash.
...
Panel’s Assessment of Driving Risks: The incidences of diazepam in drivers involved in road crashes and in drivers suspected of being under the influence, suggest an adverse effect of diazepam on road safety. Data are available to demonstrate that single therapeutic doses of diazepam can significantly impair psychomotor skills associated with safe driving, with some effects still observable the morning after a nighttime dose.
...
Medical and Recreational Uses: Used medicinally in the management of anxiety disorders, as an adjunct for the relief of skeletal muscle spasm and for convulsive disorders/status epilepticus, and as a minor tranquilizer or sedative. Also used to suppress or dampen acute alcohol withdrawal, and anxiety-related gastrointestinal disorders such as stress ulcers. Diazepam is used recreationally as a sedative or to enhance the effects of alcohol or opioids. For example, administration of diazepam 30 minutes after a dose of oral methadone reportedly produces an augmented high. Diazepam is used by cocaine users to increase seizure threshold and by heroin users to enhance the effects of heroin, and by both of these users to reduce the impact of withdrawal symptoms between doses.
...
Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer suggests patients treated with diazepam be cautioned against engaging in hazardous occupations requiring complete mental alertness such as driving a motor vehicle. Simulator and driving studies have shown that diazepam produces significant driving impairment over multiple doses. Single doses of diazepam can increase lateral deviation of lane control, reduce reaction times, reduce ability to perform multiple tasks, decrease attention, adversely effect memory and cognition, and increase the effects of fatigue. Significant impairment is further increased when diazepam is combined with low concentrations of alcohol (0.05 g/100 mL). A number of epidemiological studies have been conducted to evaluate the risk of crashes associated with the use of diazepam and other benzodiazepines. These show a range of relative risk, but most demonstrate increases in risk compared to drug free drivers. These increases have been twice to several fold. The elderly may have an increased risk of a motor vehicle crash.
...
Panel’s Assessment of Driving Risks: The incidences of diazepam in drivers involved in road crashes and in drivers suspected of being under the influence, suggest an adverse effect of diazepam on road safety. Data are available to demonstrate that single therapeutic doses of diazepam can significantly impair psychomotor skills associated with safe driving, with some effects still observable the morning after a nighttime dose.
...
-mr. bill
Last edited by mr_bill; 12-15-16 at 12:07 PM.
12-15-16, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast
Rehab is not a cure, it's tough recovering. And 'locking her up and throwing away the key' is a highly emotional thought that has no basis in penal codes. Drug court will probably mandate that she seek treatment in a closed treatment environment over a long period with counseling and a probationary period in a halfway home with no driving privileges for a long time. After that, time will be evaluated.
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