Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Uber admits its self-driving cars have trouble with bike lanes

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Uber admits its self-driving cars have trouble with bike lanes

Old 12-20-16, 01:58 PM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,241
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4222 Post(s)
Liked 1,322 Times in 916 Posts
Uber admits its self-driving cars have trouble with bike lanes

I'm somewhat surprised no one has posted this already.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/20/...th-bike-lanes/

(Remember, don't rely on the headline!)
njkayaker is offline  
Old 12-20-16, 06:19 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Talk about not ready for prime time: Issues with pedestrians and cyclists, THE vulnerable road users. If they're putting these things on the road like this, the company should lose its charter. And this is coming from a huge supporter of autonomous cars.

At this point, if someone is harmed by one of Uber's cars, it should be considered premeditated and the corporate executives should be prosecuted for their reckless disregard of human life.
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 12-20-16, 07:40 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,545

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5703 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,345 Posts
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

While self driving cars and trucks may make sense in the highly refined world of out interstate highway system, city streets, an non-limited access highways have a staggering amount of variables.

Of course, in an effort to reassure a skeptical public, they tell us that human drivers will be at the wheel and can take over control if the automatic system fails in any way. However, as the FAA has noted, even highly trained pilots rapidly become over reliant on technology (their phrase), and either don't recognize when to step in, or what to do in a complex cascade of failures.

Let's be real, how can we expect an untrained person, who's half asleep because he trusts the automatic system, to magically recognize a lapse, and instantly assess the problem and take appropriate corrective action?

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 12-20-16, 08:11 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 7,048
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 509 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
If technology were stagnant and we were stuck with something like what we've got today for the next five years or more, I'd agree with you. However, that's just not what's going down. Sure, roadway environments are complex. In fact, they are demonstrably too complex for human drivers to safely operate on. While our current iterations of autonomous vehicles aren't ready to safely take over, it seems clear to me, but perhaps not to everyone, that in the very near future autonomous vehicles will be the only thing on the road because they will be proven to be the only vehicles that can reduce our shameful levels of CARnage to civilized levels. (My state has seen a 50% increase in roadway deaths since 2013 with little sign of abating, so I'm a little biased here.)
B. Carfree is offline  
Old 12-20-16, 08:20 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,812
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,015 Times in 570 Posts
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
....in the very near future autonomous vehicles will be the only thing on the road because they will be proven to be the only vehicles that can reduce our shameful levels of CARnage to civilized levels.
I'd agree that it's in the future, but I don't think full implementation will come any time soon.
jon c. is offline  
Old 12-20-16, 08:31 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,545

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5703 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,345 Posts
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
If technology were stagnant and we were stuck with something like what we've got today for the next five years or more, I'd agree with you. .....
Actually, we don't really disagree. Of course things change over time, and I may change my mind later, when we reach a point that self driving matures.

But as I said, I''m a fan of the technology, and expect that it can bring lots to the table and can lead to improved safety long before it assumes the captains chair.

Smart collision avoidance technologies already exist and are becoming standard in cars. Some on the cusp include sensors that will prevent dooring by scanning the line behind the car and preventing a driver from opening if there's something (a cyclist) coming up that alley. Likewise, passive blind spot monitoring for large trucks is already working, and could be moved into the field just about as fast as mechanics can install the units.

So, I believe that we shouldn't wait for self driving, but focus on co-pilot crash avoidance systems, which can be put on the market immediately, without needing to wait for future refinements.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is online now  
Old 12-20-16, 08:35 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

....

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
Read me first.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 02:09 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 396 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
I'm somewhat surprised no one has posted this already.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/12/20/...th-bike-lanes/

(Remember, don't rely on the headline!)
I didn't start a thread on it. But, In another thread. I had pretty much said how(regardless of a bike lane, or not), I don't trust those cars. I would rather have an 18-wheeler behind me. Instead of an Uber car. 18-wheelers have human drivers.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 05:54 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 7,143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 261 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by jon c.
I'd agree that it's in the future, but I don't think full implementation will come any time soon.
+1

The only reason the self driving Urber car hasn't gotten into more accidents is because there's been a driver behind the wheel ALL the time! Urber is trying desperately trying to get them on the road with a driver because the next step would be to eliminate the human entirely one day.

I wonder who would be responsible once the first cyclist is killed? Who goes to prison if the vehicle plows through a mass of people?
Dahon.Steve is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 05:58 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 9,201
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1186 Post(s)
Liked 289 Times in 177 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.

While self driving cars and trucks may make sense in the highly refined world of out interstate highway system, city streets, an non-limited access highways have a staggering amount of variables.

Of course, in an effort to reassure a skeptical public, they tell us that human drivers will be at the wheel and can take over control if the automatic system fails in any way. However, as the FAA has noted, even highly trained pilots rapidly become over reliant on technology (their phrase), and either don't recognize when to step in, or what to do in a complex cascade of failures.

Let's be real, how can we expect an untrained person, who's half asleep because he trusts the automatic system, to magically recognize a lapse, and instantly assess the problem and take appropriate corrective action?

I think that the self drive technology is wonderful, but IMO, we should establish protocols which relegate to computer to the co-pilots seat, and insist that primary control stay with the captain, except (possibly) on limited access highways.
I don't think it will be long before fully autonomous cars are safer on average than human driven cars. It's not a very high bar.
gregf83 is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 06:23 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
bobwysiwyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 961' 42.28° N, 83.78° W (A2)
Posts: 2,344

Bikes: Mongoose Selous, Trek DS

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 941 Post(s)
Liked 319 Times in 189 Posts
Video of an Uber self-driving car in San Francisco running a red light isn't encouraging.
bobwysiwyg is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 07:18 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg
Video of an Uber self-driving car in San Francisco running a red light isn't encouraging.
Video of an UBER DRIVER running a red light in front of SFMOMA isn't surprising.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 08:08 AM
  #13  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Read me first.

-mr. bill
Then read this
genec is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 08:12 AM
  #14  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg
Video of an Uber self-driving car in San Francisco running a red light isn't encouraging.
See, this is how fake news is promoted.... some source sensationalized the video, the poster here did not check for further news or other sources, and next thing we know The Donald is tweeting "robot cars kill gays"
genec is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 08:21 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Robert C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,248

Bikes: This list got too long: several ‘bents, an urban utility e-bike, and a dahon D7 that my daughter has absconded with.

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 48 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars.
The fascination, as it were, is driven by the desire to eliminate jobs. Self driving personal owned vehicles are of secondary importance; but are essential to getting people to accept self driving commercial vehicles.

There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in America alone that can be eliminated. These jobs are, typically, jobs that pay enough to support families . . . that puts a target on them.
Robert C is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 10:14 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.
I'd like to automate two opposite situations; cruising straight down the interstate and sitting in stop and go traffic. I enjoy driving a lot, but just holding a straight line on cruise control or shuffling up a car length every thirty seconds isn't really what I call driving.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 10:32 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,215

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 51 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
I don't understand the fascination with self driving cars. Of course, I say thay as someone who actually enjoys driving, so I have a bias.
I actually enjoy driving cars, too. That said, I can't wait for self-driving cars. I commute a bit over an hour each way, I could do much better things with that time if my car drove for me.

Not to mentions, the sheer number of wreck that cause mass congestion would be lightened, traffic flow works more efficiently when all the cars communicate with each other and do things like all taking off from a green light at the same time, roadways can smartly allocate routes because they know where everyone is going, etc.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 12:20 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 5,721

Bikes: Kona Dawg, Surly 1x1, Karate Monkey, Rockhopper, Crosscheck , Burley Runabout,

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 854 Post(s)
Liked 111 Times in 66 Posts
Originally Posted by B. Carfree
If technology were stagnant and we were stuck with something like what we've got today for the next five years or more, I'd agree with you. However, that's just not what's going down. Sure, roadway environments are complex. In fact, they are demonstrably too complex for human drivers to safely operate on. While our current iterations of autonomous vehicles aren't ready to safely take over, it seems clear to me, but perhaps not to everyone, that in the very near future autonomous vehicles will be the only thing on the road because they will be proven to be the only vehicles that can reduce our shameful levels of CARnage to civilized levels. (My state has seen a 50% increase in roadway deaths since 2013 with little sign of abating, so I'm a little biased here.)
EVERYONE is looking at their phone and not paying attention. Since 2013? Coincidence with the rise of phone use in cars? I think not.

Last edited by Leebo; 12-21-16 at 02:23 PM.
Leebo is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 02:59 PM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
coominya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643

Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 1 Post
A self driving truck in an open cut mine is one thing, a car on suburban streets? Never take off. It's just another gimmick to attract investment capital so some IT boffins can dive Maserati's. Some people have watched too many episodes of star trek I'm afraid.
coominya is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 04:38 PM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by coominya
A self driving truck in an open cut mine is one thing, a car on suburban streets?
Nah; just give me the option on open rural interstate. For most of the distance, it could even be mostly mechanical; think of a guide rail like the "driving" rides at amusement parks, with some other form of guidance for the gaps needed to allow entry/exit. OBD monitors for mechanical issues and refuses to engage the self-drive (for use of the rail equipped priority lane) if a serious problem exists that might prevent continued safe operation for the next segment. (Thus preventing the problem of a stopped car on the rail.) Where exits are 1-4 miles apart, there's just not much "driving" to be done.

In traffic jams, lane holding and keeping a set distance from the car ahead isn't exactly rocket surgery. Remote transmitters could even set up an orderly automated migration to the clear lanes when some are blocked ahead. When the jam starts to clear, you could have an audible alert, letting the driver know to take over again, or else the car pulls over and stops rather than continuing to self-drive in the dense-but-accelerating traffic right past a jam.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 05:06 PM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
One thing that the USA needs is a 100% accurate MAP.

Build a new street, and update the master map.

Add bike lanes, update the master map.

Restrict travel (size, weight, etc), update the map.

There have been videos posted of ambiguous bike lanes with cars driving in them with a person behind the wheel. If it is all mapped out, then it should actually be easier for a computer to tell where lanes are than for a human.

Unfortunately, all the maps seem to have serious shortcomings. Rather than the government that is building and painting the streets updating the maps, it seems more up to people driving them to discover new roads.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 07:08 PM
  #22  
Senior Member
 
bobwysiwyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 961' 42.28° N, 83.78° W (A2)
Posts: 2,344

Bikes: Mongoose Selous, Trek DS

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 941 Post(s)
Liked 319 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
See, this is how fake news is promoted.... some source sensationalized the video, the poster here did not check for further news or other sources, and next thing we know The Donald is tweeting "robot cars kill gays"
Please point me to reliable information that disputes what seems to have happened.
bobwysiwyg is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 07:11 PM
  #23  
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,644
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Video of an UBER DRIVER running a red light in front of SFMOMA isn't surprising.

-mr. bill
Originally Posted by genec
See, this is how fake news is promoted.... some source sensationalized the video, the poster here did not check for further news or other sources, and next thing we know The Donald is tweeting "robot cars kill gays"
So many believing Uber's fake response to an actual video catching them.

Much like Hillary telling people they should not read the e-mails because they were hacked vice saying the e-mails are false.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.

Last edited by CB HI; 12-21-16 at 07:22 PM.
CB HI is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 07:18 PM
  #24  
Cycle Year Round
 
CB HI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 13,644
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1316 Post(s)
Liked 92 Times in 59 Posts
Originally Posted by coominya
A self driving truck in an open cut mine is one thing, a car on suburban streets? Never take off. It's just another gimmick to attract investment capital so some IT boffins can dive Maserati's. Some people have watched too many episodes of star trek I'm afraid.
How so, when things get tough, the helmsman always take manual control on Star Trek.
__________________
Land of the Free, Because of the Brave.
CB HI is offline  
Old 12-21-16, 09:01 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,888

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 39 Posts
If Tesla is solidly behind it you know it's all hype...
McBTC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.