Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 04-08-18, 02:24 PM
  #2851  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Try and stay focused, the subject is the utility/practicality of self driving shuttle bus vehicles currently sitting in the garage in Michigan presumably waiting for the snow to melt, before offering its experimental "service", on its tiny isolated route [see below], not standard shuttle buses (with drivers) you have taken in So Cal.
I am focused... these driverless systems fit very well with work campus transportation. Waymo uses such a system on the Waymo (formally Google) Mountain view Campus in California. This is not pie in the sky... the system has been in place since 2015.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...ing-car-garage

These are limited routes and originally were done with the google "gulf cart" slow vehicle.
genec is offline  
Old 04-08-18, 04:15 PM
  #2852  
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,595 Times in 2,456 Posts
hey, I'm all for companies experimenting on themselves, instead of on us.
unterhausen is offline  
Old 04-08-18, 05:07 PM
  #2853  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,930

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,505 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
I am focused... these driverless systems fit very well with work campus transportation. Waymo uses such a system on the Waymo (formally Google) Mountain view Campus in California. This is not pie in the sky... the system has been in place since 2015.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/...ing-car-garage

These are limited routes and originally were done with the google "gulf cart" slow vehicle.
Sounds just like the "transportation system" on the U of M campus, slow speed, restricted limited route [see below] except the Michigan tests will now presumably put at risk the relatively limited public to be exposed to the tests, thanks to the University and the local government being in the promoters' pocket; just as AZ has been.

"The shuttle service will run on UM roads during business hours to start, with stops only at the Robert H. Lurie Engineering Center and the North Campus Research Complex. There is no cost to riders, and the two shuttles will cover the 2-mile circular route roughly every 10 minutes. Hours of operation and the service area could be increased later if the technology proves effective and consumer acceptance supports expansion."
Driverless shuttle coming to University of Michigan's North Campus | MLive.com
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-08-18, 05:20 PM
  #2854  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,422

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7612 Post(s)
Liked 3,418 Times in 1,808 Posts
And despite Uber's inability to operate safely on a college campus in clear weather, there is footage of cars with more advanced AV systems operating in snowstorms in Russia.

Of course, some people will claim that it is fake.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-08-18, 05:24 PM
  #2855  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Sounds just like the "transportation system" on the U of M campus, slow speed, restricted limited route [see below] except the Michigan tests will now presumably put at risk the relatively limited public to be exposed to the tests, thanks to the University and the local government being in the promoters' pocket; just as AZ has been.

"The shuttle service will run on UM roads during business hours to start, with stops only at the Robert H. Lurie Engineering Center and the North Campus Research Complex. There is no cost to riders, and the two shuttles will cover the 2-mile circular route roughly every 10 minutes. Hours of operation and the service area could be increased later if the technology proves effective and consumer acceptance supports expansion."
Driverless shuttle coming to University of Michigan's North Campus | MLive.com
Pretty much. Low speed, limited exposure to public and very limited route. Apparently they started with the weird google egg cars first and now have transitioned to real cars with the self driving system.

This is Waymo, not Uber... they have more testing miles, and at last press release were doing well over 5000 miles between "assists;" Uber was doing 13 miles between assists. Uber of course (like the rest of their management culture) was pushing things until they broke...

As I mentioned earlier in this thread... this is not about one company marching in this direction... there are dozens, all with slightly different approaches. This is not a single company "scam" like Theranos.

Toyota too is doing their own thing, but their focus is again different... they are gearing up for an aging population, and want to ensure that the cars are 100% safe first as a copilot. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/2/17...e-tri-ad-tokyo

Toyota’s researchers are developing what they call a “guardian angel” system that will automatically take control of a vehicle, or subtly adjust a driver’s actions, in order to avert danger. In contrast to other companies working on self-driving vehicles, the Japanese carmaker sees combining machine and human driving as a key step toward full autonomy.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...sible-copilot/

Of course GM is working on their version as is Volvo... all independently.

Uber may well fail (and probably should, given their history and approach) but I suspect that the sector as a whole will manage to deliver a true self driving car, to the public, in a decade or so.
genec is offline  
Old 04-08-18, 06:06 PM
  #2856  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,422

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7612 Post(s)
Liked 3,418 Times in 1,808 Posts
Cadillac is already advertising a "true, hands-off highway-driving" vehicle. Advertising, as i putting commercials on TV .. so if it were Tesla disaster, I could see Mucho court cases ... which makes me think the car can at least stay within its lane and slow and speed up depending on surrounding traffic.

It might not avoid collisions ... but cruise control has been able to speed and slow for a while now, and most highways have Botts dots or very visible lines, and no real turns or corners until one wishes to exit.

If the TV commercial showed the driver cruising down the highway with neither hand on the wheel (and it does,) then "truth in advertising" laws might apply if the car couldn't perform as illustrated. And I can guarantee you Cadillac doesn't want its customer base hearing about court cases over collisions.

Tesla owners are already willing to push the envelope. Caddy, not so much i think.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 01:01 AM
  #2857  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
And despite Uber's inability to operate safely on a college campus in clear weather, there is footage of cars with more advanced AV systems operating in snowstorms in Russia.
Level of automation required to be better than a Russian driver: brick on the gas pedal and a bungee cord on the steering wheel.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 01:03 AM
  #2858  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
In the winter in Michigan ....
HTFU and pedal faster if you want heat.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 02:17 AM
  #2859  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 8,050

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Level of automation required to be better than a Russian driver: brick on the gas pedal and a bungee cord on the steering wheel.

Aren't dashcams entertainment in Russia?
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 10:22 AM
  #2860  
Senior Member
 
squirtdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,798

Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque

Mentioned: 104 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2284 Post(s)
Liked 2,685 Times in 1,472 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
And despite Uber's inability to operate safely on a college campus in clear weather, there is footage of cars with more advanced AV systems operating in snowstorms in Russia.

Of course, some people will claim that it is fake.
here is a finnish company with a focus on AV in snow....which they call a unique problem https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/fi...-driving-snow/


my point is that AV is a long way from handling all the varying road conditions out there. I think besides the relatively lax governmental oversight, the weather is probably a big draw to using Arizona as a test area.

a short quote "The point isnít to make a perfect consumer car for snowy weather, but to tackle the unique technical problems pertaining to it. For instance, can Marttiís optical instruments tweak the wavelength they use depending on conditions in order to gain a small but significant increase in accuracy? What about detecting icy conditions and traction problems ahead of time ó how should the car collect this data, and how should it act until itís sure what to do?

Inter-car networks may be critical for this, the researchers suggested, including both other autonomous cars on the road and specialty vehicles that can test for and broadcast information like snow pack, traction, road temperature and so on."
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)



squirtdad is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 12:21 PM
  #2861  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by squirtdad
here is a finnish company with a focus on AV in snow....which they call a unique problem https://techcrunch.com/2017/12/15/fi...-driving-snow/


my point is that AV is a long way from handling all the varying road conditions out there. I think besides the relatively lax governmental oversight, the weather is probably a big draw to using Arizona as a test area.

a short quote "The point isnít to make a perfect consumer car for snowy weather, but to tackle the unique technical problems pertaining to it. For instance, can Marttiís optical instruments tweak the wavelength they use depending on conditions in order to gain a small but significant increase in accuracy? What about detecting icy conditions and traction problems ahead of time ó how should the car collect this data, and how should it act until itís sure what to do?

Inter-car networks may be critical for this, the researchers suggested, including both other autonomous cars on the road and specialty vehicles that can test for and broadcast information like snow pack, traction, road temperature and so on."
One might ask just how skilled motorists are in handling weather... Do we human drivers really handle it well, or are we just faking it and hoping for the best? I think more so the latter than some special ability to really do well when visibility is near zero.

A month or so back I was caught on central valley (CA) highways (5 and 99) while towing a trailer, in the middle of a sudden (I knew "something was coming...") torrential downpour. Yes, all the traffic suddenly slowed from freeway speeds to about 35 MPH. But could we really see well, or as I experienced, was I nearly "blind" and just hoping for the best as I squinted to see the brake/tail lights in front of me? The CA central valley is renowned for huge pileup crashes when "valley fog" descends... why is this... is it simply drivers following tail lights and hoping for the best... but in reality not being well equipped for driving in such conditions?

Sure regular rain and snow can be handled by human drivers... but "blinding conditions?" I think we simply tend to push on and hope for the best. AVs might actually be able to "see" something in such conditions, using mm wave radar. And if such AVs are communicating with other AVs in such conditions, they could (yeah, I know, conjecture...) paint a far more complete picture than simple humans who can barely see a glint of red tail lights ahead.

Of course the counter argument (which I know some of you will jump on) is that AVs do not yet even have as complete a picture as humans, with our well developed eyesight. And yes, this is true, currently. Even with the ability to see in darkness (lidar, radar, and IR) AVs still do not fully "comprehend" the situation before them... but over time, (10+ years) this may become massively improved as processors and software are improved.
genec is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 02:33 PM
  #2862  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,930

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,505 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
... but over time, (10+ years) this may become massively improved as processors and software are improved.
It might, it might not be massively improved enough to be successfully/economically fielded. Over time almost anything is possible. I recommend that you don't hold your breath waiting for this bad weather self driving product to be commercially available.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 03:15 PM
  #2863  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
It might, it might not be massively improved enough to be successfully/economically fielded. Over time almost anything is possible. I recommend that you don't hold your breath waiting for this bad weather self driving product to be commercially available.
Yeah, no way I could hold my breath for 10 years.
genec is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 03:25 PM
  #2864  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Arizona storms:

Start at 5:00:
noisebeam is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 05:15 PM
  #2865  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,930

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,505 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam
Saw the human driven cars managing to navigate safely under those difficult conditions, didn't see any Uber, Waymo or any other AV in sight. Got any reference to the AZ AV testers venturing out of their isolated comfort geo restricted zones and driving without real time human control/oversight through those AZ storms or any scenario beyond good weather, mostly suburban/college campus cruising on constantly mapped out well marked streets?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 06:15 PM
  #2866  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Saw the human driven cars managing to navigate safely under those difficult conditions, didn't see any Uber, Waymo or any other AV in sight. Got any reference to the AZ AV testers venturing out of their isolated comfort geo restricted zones and driving without real time human control/oversight through those AZ storms or any scenario beyond good weather, mostly suburban/college campus cruising on constantly mapped out well marked streets?
Saw a whole bunch of IDIOTS with get-there-itus.

Folks like that donít end up in Kansas anymore.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 07:08 PM
  #2867  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Posts: 3,849

Bikes: 27 speed ORYX with over 39,000Kms on it and another 14,000KMs with a BionX E-Assist on it

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1024 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Saw the human driven cars managing to navigate safely under those difficult conditions, didn't see any Uber, Waymo or any other AV in sight. Got any reference to the AZ AV testers venturing out of their isolated comfort geo restricted zones and driving without real time human control/oversight through those AZ storms or any scenario beyond good weather, mostly suburban/college campus cruising on constantly mapped out well marked streets?
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-vi...-401-1.3232670 and how are these human drivers doing in your opinion...??? Not too good in my opinion...

Last edited by 350htrr; 04-09-18 at 07:29 PM.
350htrr is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 09:10 PM
  #2868  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Saw a whole bunch of IDIOTS with get-there-itus.

Folks like that donít end up in Kansas anymore.

-mr. bill
Exactly my point... those drivers are simply searching for any point of light or reference out there. It's more drive by feel and hope.
genec is offline  
Old 04-09-18, 10:04 PM
  #2869  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,030

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5345 Post(s)
Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Exactly my point... those drivers are simply searching for any point of light or reference out there. It's more drive by feel and hope.
At 9:15. "I can't see" (but I'll keep going anyway)

Last edited by noisebeam; 04-09-18 at 10:08 PM.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 09:24 AM
  #2870  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,930

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,505 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Exactly my point... those drivers are simply searching for any point of light or reference out there. It's more drive by feel and hope.
I thought your point was that driver-less vehicles that can crawl along at 25mph in sunny and warm good weather on well mapped and marked wide streets in residential and suburban areas or corporate/university campuses like Phoenix or San Diego are THE transportation solution that will validate/justify the hoopla about self driving vehicles making the world safe for motorists, pedestrians and bicyclists.

Side Bet Fun:
Which highly touted transportation project will be available first to meet the transportation needs of public in the future: commercially available Level 5 (no driver or real time human oversight) autonomous vehicles or a high priced boutique public transit project*). Will we see either in the next decade or even many decades on the streets of NYC? Will we see in the next decade Level 5 AVs available for public use and operating safely in any large city that isn't Phoenix, Orlando or a warm weather amusement park parking lot?

If no Level 5 capability is commercially successful what is the significant advantage of any lower level AV capability if it still requires real time human oversight and driving capability?

*https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/10/n...yn-queens.html
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 09:42 AM
  #2871  
Senior Member
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,888

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
...


Of course the counter argument (which I know some of you will jump on) is that AVs do not yet even have as complete a picture as humans, with our well developed eyesight. And yes, this is true, currently. Even with the ability to see in darkness (lidar, radar, and IR) AVs still do not fully "comprehend" the situation before them... but over time, (10+ years) this may become massively improved as processors and software are improved.
True, true and that should be the hope anyone with any common sense. Human oversight obviously is overrated when you see train accidents occurring-- that's an example of not being able to count on humans even when the vehicle is on rails and right of way is assumed 100% of the time, which you'd think would enable the 'driver' to at least concentrate on maintaining a proper speed around corners and not speeding...
McBTC is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 09:43 AM
  #2872  
Senior Member
 
hotbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 3,749

Bikes: a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 74 Posts
The Uber crash in Tempe, AZ, is bad news, both for cyclists and the autonomous vehicle industry.

I saw the video, and I don't think the Uber car even had it's headlights on. Feet show up like that when my car has the fog lights on only. Maybe the lights were turned off so the driver could sleep?
hotbike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 09:59 AM
  #2873  
Senior Member
 
hotbike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Island, New York
Posts: 3,749

Bikes: a lowrider BMX, a mountain bike, a faired recumbent, and a loaded touring bike

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 74 Posts
I would like a self driving vehicle , a very small self driving vehicle , to accompany me on long bicycle rides. It would have to be at least the height and width of a spare bicycle wheel, but no bigger. maybe three meters long.
If autonomous vehicles are to be used for deliveries, then there doesn't need to be room for a driver. Self driving car could be much smaller , NO headroom , NO legroom, No elbow room , inside . Just the stuff I asked for, thank you.
hotbike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 10:41 AM
  #2874  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,422

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7612 Post(s)
Liked 3,418 Times in 1,808 Posts
Originally Posted by hotbike
I would like a self driving vehicle , a very small self driving vehicle , to accompany me on long bicycle rides. It would have to be at least the height and width of a spare bicycle wheel, but no bigger. maybe three meters long.
late to the show, bro.

Wind-breaking, paceline-leading, drink-dispensing tool/snack carts have already been discussed and are probably in development.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 11:35 AM
  #2875  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,930

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,505 Times in 1,023 Posts
Originally Posted by McBTC
True, true and that should be the hope anyone with any common sense. Human oversight obviously is overrated when you see train accidents occurring-- that's an example of not being able to count on humans even when the vehicle is on rails and right of way is assumed 100% of the time, which you'd think would enable the 'driver' to at least concentrate on maintaining a proper speed around corners and not speeding...
Speaking of vehicles running on rails, take a look at an interesting article about Uber in the New Yorker Magazine, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...o-shifts-gears. Note the observation about "the cars drive on preprogrammed maps, effectively following virtual tracks like trains".

We can only guess how often the preprogrammed maps have to be updated to assure that the "virtual tracks" to be driven on are still intact and safe to ride autonomously with human oversight, let alone with no human oversight.

Most of the article is about the Uber Company operation and its new CEO, but the last 10% of the article deals with the autonomous vehicle project. Especially revealing is what the reporter encountered when allowed to see and report about how the AV cars actually operate and their requirement for human oversight/interaction for safe operation.
Extract:
"He [The autonomous-vehicle operator] summoned a route on a dashboard iPad—the cars drive on preprogrammed maps, effectively following virtual tracks like trains—and pushed a silver button on the dashboard to snap the car into autonomous mode. The vehicle took over, moving smoothly forward. “Now I literally have to do nothing,” the operator commented while waiting to turn at a red light. “But, if this idiot here decides to pull out in front of us, then I may take over.” There was a white Toyota in the opposing lane, and, sure enough, it jumped forward to make a left turn in front of us just as the light turned green. “That’s what’s called a Pittsburgh Left,” the operator said. He explained that the car collected information about every aspect of the ride and sent the data back to Uber’s engineers. “Let’s say we got into an accident. We would have complete video evidence of everything,” he said. “The car doesn’t get tired, it doesn’t get angry, it doesn’t drink . . . it’s just always going to do the right thing.”

Each time a pedestrian appeared in front of us, he or she showed up in blue on the iPad, which reflected what the car was “seeing.” The vehicle could monitor hundreds of pedestrians at a time, the operator said, and had been programmed to be extra cautious around them. As we moved through Pittsburgh’s construction-filled streets, however, the operator jumped in with surprising frequency, taking over when a person in a parked car unexpectedly opened a door, or when passing through school safety zones, where the vehicle automatically slowed to fifteen miles an hour. The operator told me that the car sometimes got into awkward situations, such as when other drivers motioned for it to go ahead, and the car couldn’t pick up on the signal. At one point, a node in the trunk’s hardware stack crashed, and we had to pull over to reboot. Such occurrences, my operator assured me, were rare.

On March 19th, Uber’s entire self-driving pilot program was put on hold after a test vehicle in Tempe, Arizona, killed a forty-nine-year-old woman named Elaine Herzberg."
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.