Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 04-10-18, 11:48 AM
  #2876  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,417

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7611 Post(s)
Liked 3,415 Times in 1,807 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
We can only guess
.... which is the standard of proof usual in these posts .....
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 11:52 AM
  #2877  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Speaking of vehicles running on rails, take a look at an interesting article about Uber in the New Yorker Magazine, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...o-shifts-gears. Note the observation about "the cars drive on preprogrammed maps, effectively following virtual tracks like trains".
Human drivers do the same thing when they use car navigation units. Human drivers still manage to drive into lakes.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
We can only guess how often the preprogrammed maps have to be updated to assure that the "virtual tracks" to be driven on are still intact and safe to ride autonomously with human oversight, let alone with no human oversight.

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-10-18 at 12:06 PM.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 12:05 PM
  #2878  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Speaking of vehicles running on rails, take a look at an interesting article about Uber in the New Yorker Magazine, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...o-shifts-gears. Note the observation about "the cars drive on preprogrammed maps, effectively following virtual tracks like trains".

We can only guess how often the preprogrammed maps have to be updated to assure that the "virtual tracks" to be driven on are still intact and safe to ride autonomously with human oversight, let alone with no human oversight.

Most of the article is about the Uber Company operation and its new CEO, but the last 10% of the article deals with the autonomous vehicle project. Especially revealing is what the reporter encountered when allowed to see and report about how the AV cars actually operate and their requirement for human oversight/interaction for safe operation.
Extract:
"He [The autonomous-vehicle operator] summoned a route on a dashboard iPad—the cars drive on preprogrammed maps, effectively following virtual tracks like trains—and pushed a silver button on the dashboard to snap the car into autonomous mode. The vehicle took over, moving smoothly forward. “Now I literally have to do nothing,” the operator commented while waiting to turn at a red light. “But, if this idiot here decides to pull out in front of us, then I may take over.” There was a white Toyota in the opposing lane, and, sure enough, it jumped forward to make a left turn in front of us just as the light turned green. “That’s what’s called a Pittsburgh Left,” the operator said. He explained that the car collected information about every aspect of the ride and sent the data back to Uber’s engineers. “Let’s say we got into an accident. We would have complete video evidence of everything,” he said. “The car doesn’t get tired, it doesn’t get angry, it doesn’t drink . . . it’s just always going to do the right thing.”

Each time a pedestrian appeared in front of us, he or she showed up in blue on the iPad, which reflected what the car was “seeing.” The vehicle could monitor hundreds of pedestrians at a time, the operator said, and had been programmed to be extra cautious around them. As we moved through Pittsburgh’s construction-filled streets, however, the operator jumped in with surprising frequency, taking over when a person in a parked car unexpectedly opened a door, or when passing through school safety zones, where the vehicle automatically slowed to fifteen miles an hour. The operator told me that the car sometimes got into awkward situations, such as when other drivers motioned for it to go ahead, and the car couldn’t pick up on the signal. At one point, a node in the trunk’s hardware stack crashed, and we had to pull over to reboot. Such occurrences, my operator assured me, were rare.

On March 19th, Uber’s entire self-driving pilot program was put on hold after a test vehicle in Tempe, Arizona, killed a forty-nine-year-old woman named Elaine Herzberg."
The item in bold red above is quite easily answered... every time an AV runs the route, the route is verified and/or updated.

Of course this doesn't hold for Uber, who will no doubt try some shortcut, be caught at it, go to court, buy off the offended parties and continue on their foolish quest, until they are broke, or brought down by some official agency. But then Uber does not define all AVs; Uber is NOT GM, Toyota, Waymo, Volvo... etc. Uber is but one player in a much bigger tech sector.
genec is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:11 PM
  #2879  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by McBTC
True, true and that should be the hope anyone with any common sense. Human oversight obviously is overrated when you see train accidents occurring-- that's an example of not being able to count on humans even when the vehicle is on rails and right of way is assumed 100% of the time, which you'd think would enable the 'driver' to at least concentrate on maintaining a proper speed around corners and not speeding...
I believe you are referring to the train crash south of Seattle, for which, if the fancy electronic gear had been in place, vice depending on a too quickly trained human, would have prevented such a collision.

Yeah the irony is just too thick there... pointing out that humans can managed to crash a vehicle on rails.

Meanwhile, at least one poster here believes humans, driving in zero visibility conditions, are doing a great job.
genec is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:12 PM
  #2880  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
The item in bold red above is quite easily answered... every time an AV runs the route, the route is verified and/or updated.
The item in bold red is a small part of getting AVs to work. Other than ILTB, no one is relying on maps being up-to-date would ever be sufficient.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 12:28 PM
  #2881  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
The item in bold red is a small part of getting AVs to work. Other than ILTB, no one is relying on maps being up-to-date would ever be sufficient.
True, the systems rely on "seeing" the current conditions as they drive. The route will merely be verified... just in case a giant hole in the earth opens up before the next run.

I understand a bit of his skepticism... Uber for instance is the proof for his complaints... Poorly managed, overly aggressive, stealing software and indeed managing to kill an innocent pedestrian that it should have noticed.

But Uber is not the only player; this is a huge tech sector involving dozens of companies, all looking to deliver a safe product, soon, but not tomorrow.

Over time, this will be worked out... as software, sensors and processors are all improved.
genec is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:40 PM
  #2882  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
The item in bold red above is quite easily answered... every time an AV runs the route, the route is verified and/or updated.
Are you sure of that, and the map is corrected instantly for every other AV in the fleet? Of course even if true in every case of deviations from the previous map programming it amounts to fixing the AV's "track" after the vehicle has run over it.
Originally Posted by genec
Of course this doesn't hold for Uber, who will no doubt try some shortcut, be caught at it, go to court, buy off the offended parties and continue on their foolish quest, until they are broke, or brought down by some official agency. But then Uber does not define all AVs; Uber is NOT GM, Toyota, Waymo, Volvo... etc. Uber is but one player in a much bigger tech sector.
But at least Uber did allow a reporter to ride in one of its so-called self driving cars and observe and report just how autonomous the the driving actually was. Haven't seen similar reporting of the experiences of reporters on board the AV's of the other promoters while actually being drive anywhere, let alone the AV experience of being driven on city streets where the unexpected can be expected to frequently occur; have seen Google produced videos and press releases though. Even their alleged driver disengagment rate is based on their own definition of what constitutes driver disengagement ",
https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-...getting-better
Extract:
"Companies get to decide how to record these so-called disengagements. In 2017, for instance, relative newcomer Nvidia logged every single time a human touched the steering wheel of its test vehicle, even at the planned end of a test. Waymo, on the other hand, ran complex computer simulations after each disengagement, and only reported to the DMV those where it believed the driver was correct to take charge, rather than being overly-cautious. GM chose not to report at least one instance where an autonomous car was about to block an intersection.

Such variety in reporting makes for widely disparate data. Nvidia told the DMV that its test runs were typically less than five miles in length, and thus it is not surprising that its car traveled an average of just 4.6 miles between disengagements. Waymo said its 75 test vehicles, in comparison, suffered disengagements only about once every 5,600 miles."
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:46 PM
  #2883  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
The only thing I am SURE of is death and taxes... as far as AVs, the future is not here yet.

But please continue to tell us just how and why it will never come. How are those buggy whip sales, these days?
genec is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:50 PM
  #2884  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Meanwhile, at least one poster here believes humans, driving in zero visibility conditions, are doing a great job.
Really? Who posted "doing a great job" or any variation of that? What would your description be of the driving capability/record/"job" of the current crop of AVs when encountering snow/sand storms or any other unexpected weather related events like freezing, snowy or icy roads? How well do they "do the job" in likely black ice locations?

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 04-10-18 at 12:55 PM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:54 PM
  #2885  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
The only thing I am SURE of is death and taxes... as far as AVs, the future is not here yet.

But please continue to tell us just how and why it will never come. How are those buggy whip sales, these days?
Try, for a change, to quote, or at least paraphrase correctly correctly.
Who posted "never will come"? Again, why not cut out posting strawman arguments and fabricated statements attributed to me. Smarmy references to buggy whips are not productive either.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:58 PM
  #2886  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,417

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7611 Post(s)
Liked 3,415 Times in 1,807 Posts
Hi, I am looking for the thread where people bicker over silly things for no particular reason. Is this it?

I think I have a lot to offer .... sadly ...
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 12:59 PM
  #2887  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
The item in bold red is a small part of getting AVs to work. Other than ILTB, no one is relying on maps being up-to-date would ever be sufficient.
They are currently relying on human oversight if/when the maps are not sufficient. Or avoiding all streets and roads altogether that might challenge their ability to use the maps for guidance.

In the future? Who knows?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 01:08 PM
  #2888  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Really? Who posted "doing a great job" or any variation of that?
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Saw the human driven cars managing to navigate safely under those difficult conditions....
I saw people driving unsafely. It is possible to do something insanely dangerous and NOT die you know.

Just ask people who "safely" play Russian Roulette.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 01:15 PM
  #2889  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
They are currently relying on human oversight if/when the maps are not sufficient. Or avoiding all streets and roads altogether that might challenge their ability to use the maps for guidance.
The maps will never be "sufficient" given that the maps don't include things like pedestrians or other cars or animals, etc. I would have thought that was clear.

They are relying on human oversight as a temporary measure. The idea is to replace that human oversight.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 01:18 PM
  #2890  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
True, the systems rely on "seeing" the current conditions as they drive. The route will merely be verified... just in case a giant hole in the earth opens up before the next run.
The problem isn't following a "virtual track". The problem never was that.

Originally Posted by genec
I understand a bit of his skepticism... Uber for instance is the proof for his complaints... Poorly managed, overly aggressive, stealing software and indeed managing to kill an innocent pedestrian that it should have noticed.

But Uber is not the only player; this is a huge tech sector involving dozens of companies, all looking to deliver a safe product, soon, but not tomorrow.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical. Uber seems to be a company apart from the others (Uber doesn't seem representative at all).
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 01:18 PM
  #2891  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
The idea is to replace that human oversight.
A fine idea. Good Luck, though it will take more than that even with a boatload of money and wishful thinking.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 01:32 PM
  #2892  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
I saw people driving unsafely. It is possible to do something insanely dangerous and NOT die you know.

Just ask people who "safely" play Russian Roulette.

-mr. bill
Some might say the same thing about cyclists riding on the road in busy high speed traffic scenarios.

Just ask 'em, in fact you probably wouldn't have to ask, some people just might gratuitously offer their opinion when they view what they might describe as "insanely dangerous" activity. Perhaps even post their views on this subject in the comments section of blogs and on line media outlets whenever the subject of cyclists involved in crashes comes up.

The bottom line is that some scenarios are more difficult than others to drive in, some scenarios are safer than others (think dry roads over snowy/frozen roads, good visibility vice restricted visibility) but not necessarily impossible if given appropriate attention, which of course is different than being impossible to navigate safely at all at any speed at the present development stage of the AV.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 01:34 PM
  #2893  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
A fine idea. Good Luck, though it will take more than that even with a boatload of money and wishful thinking.
Well, as hard as it might be, that is the idea.

In any case, your talking about the map stuff is just irrational panicking.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 01:36 PM
  #2894  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times in 3,157 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Try, for a change, to quote, or at least paraphrase correctly correctly.
Who posted "never will come"? Again, why not cut out posting strawman arguments and fabricated statements attributed to me. Smarmy references to buggy whips are not productive either.
I cannot quote you saying this directly... as all you have done is compare the coming of AVs to other failed things in the past... such as Popular Mechanics and the advent of the flying car or Theranos and their tech scam...

This is about as close as you come to saying "never will come:"
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Good Luck, though it will take more than that even with a boatload of money and wishful thinking.
No, you never actually come out and say "never will come." You just deny any progress or press release or involvement by any group involved in reaching the goal of autonomous vehicles.

Have a nice day.
genec is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 01:39 PM
  #2895  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
Sure.

In any case, your talking about the map stuff is just irrational panicking.
I am not panicking, just observant and not posting about my blind faith in the promises found in press releases of the promoters and techno fan bois.

Which AV promoter does not include accurate and current mapping as an integral component of its current or future Level 4 or Level 5 AVs?
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 01:50 PM
  #2896  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I am not panicking, just observant and not posting about my blind faith in the promises found in press releases of the promoters and techno fan bois.
No, you want other people to panic about what is mostly a nonissue.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Speaking of vehicles running on rails, take a look at an interesting article about Uber in the New Yorker Magazine, https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...o-shifts-gears. Note the observation about "the cars drive on preprogrammed maps, effectively following virtual tracks like trains".
This is a weird way of describing the process (the cars drive on actual roads).

The process is not much different than what millions of humans do when using car navigation systems.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Which AV promoter does not include accurate and current mapping as an integral component of its current or future Level 4 or Level 5 AVs?
Which anybody does not include "accurate and current mapping as an integral component" of transportation in general?

It may be necessary but no one is arguing that it's sufficient. Maps aren't the hard part.

The maps won't include other vehicles and pedestrians etc.

Last edited by njkayaker; 04-10-18 at 01:57 PM.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 02:05 PM
  #2897  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,918

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,497 Times in 1,020 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker
No, you want other people to panic about what is mostly a nonissue.


This is a weird way of describing the process. It's not much different than what millions of humans do when using car navigation systems.



Which anybody does not include "accurate and current mapping as an integral component" of transportation in general?

It may be necessary but no one is arguing that it's sufficient. Maps aren't the hard part.

The maps won't include other vehicles and pedestrians etc.
I agree that there are many "hard parts" to be resolved before Level 5 AVs will be a viable commercial transportation choice anywhere but a few isolated locations such as amusement parks or closed (to outsider) campuses.

I am certainly not of the school of thought that if government regulators would just let the wizards of technology loose with unrestricted/monitored testing on public roads, a bright shining future accident free transportation is right around the corner.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 02:06 PM
  #2898  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,209
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4189 Post(s)
Liked 1,291 Times in 895 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I agree that there are many "hard parts" to be resolved before Level 5 AVs will be a viable commercial transportation choice anywhere but a few isolated locations such as amusement parks or closed (to outsider) campuses.
Does anybody here disagree with this?

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I am certainly not of the school of thought that if government regulators would just let the wizards of technology loose with unrestricted/monitored testing on public roads, a bright shining future accident free transportation is right around the corner.
Has anybody here made this claim or is it a strawman?

(Hint: it's a strawman.)
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-10-18, 02:53 PM
  #2899  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,417

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 143 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7611 Post(s)
Liked 3,415 Times in 1,807 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
I agree that there are many "hard parts" to be resolved before Level 5 AVs will be a viable commercial transportation choice anywhere but a few isolated locations such as amusement parks or closed (to outsider) campuses.
Originally Posted by njkayaker
Does anybody here disagree with this? .
yes, I do.

A certain poster keeps saying that the Waymo taxis in Chandler, Arizona only run on prescribed routes like train tracks.

I have seen no evidence of this, and neither has he. He just keeps saying it to be contrary.

From everything I have read, Waymo taxis, with no back-up driver, have been performing as full-service taxis in the Phoenix suburb of Chandler since the Arizona governor sighed the Executive Order on March 1. As far as I have read, they started testing over a year ago (see this article from Nov.7, 2017. https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...a-12339152.php)

Unless someone has Corroborated, Factual Evidence to the contrary well, I will stick with reality and let other posters live in the dystopias of their choosing.

I am not afraid of being proved wrong Id much rather have facts than suppositions. So stand and deliver, people.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 04-10-18, 03:01 PM
  #2900  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,529
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2111 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
The bottom line is that some scenarios are more difficult than others to drive in....
Helpful safety information on how to drive in a haboob.

The bottom line - don’t.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 04-10-18 at 03:28 PM. Reason: topy
mr_bill is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.