Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?
04-13-18, 07:36 PM
#2926
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If you read the relevant standards, you will see that bicycles are a required category of vehicle to be detected by such systems... whether crossing, oncoming, overtaking, being overtaken, going fast, going slow, large, small, etc.
In my opinion GM's approach seems to be pretty level-headed... camera systems have been on cars for YEARS providing lane departure WARNINGS... collision WARNINGS... etc., where the liability and control remain squarely with the driver. As others mentioned, active cruise control has been around even longer. Billions (and billions) of miles worth of data have been handled by such systems globally, I'm sure.
Now GM is going the next baby-step forward, and marketing what they tout as really smart highway-only cruise control. It even ensures that the driver keeps their eyes on the road - probably more strictly than most drivers do while operating their vehicles in conventional circumstances. This seems much more responsible to me vs. companies marketing an "autopilot" at this stage. If successful after another several years, they will probably release another system that allows less supervision, or does a little more in cities, or something.
To get to the point of the post, though, ultimately most road-going bicyclists are out during the day, or at least have lights - indeed it's the law, in this state - and such bicyclists are probably easily detected by most of these systems. Frankly, having known no less than four friends or friends-of-friends who were either severely injured (2) or killed (2) by conventionally-driven cars while riding on the road in 3 separate incidents, I have no doubt that such "assistance features" will make the road safer for bikes by augmenting the driver's awareness.
As to fully self-driving cars, don't think we're there yet.
By the way, a pedestrian was killed a couple years ago crossing the street in similar circumstances a few miles from where I live. Unfortunately accidents do happen, even (especially?) with human drivers.
In my opinion GM's approach seems to be pretty level-headed... camera systems have been on cars for YEARS providing lane departure WARNINGS... collision WARNINGS... etc., where the liability and control remain squarely with the driver. As others mentioned, active cruise control has been around even longer. Billions (and billions) of miles worth of data have been handled by such systems globally, I'm sure.
Now GM is going the next baby-step forward, and marketing what they tout as really smart highway-only cruise control. It even ensures that the driver keeps their eyes on the road - probably more strictly than most drivers do while operating their vehicles in conventional circumstances. This seems much more responsible to me vs. companies marketing an "autopilot" at this stage. If successful after another several years, they will probably release another system that allows less supervision, or does a little more in cities, or something.
To get to the point of the post, though, ultimately most road-going bicyclists are out during the day, or at least have lights - indeed it's the law, in this state - and such bicyclists are probably easily detected by most of these systems. Frankly, having known no less than four friends or friends-of-friends who were either severely injured (2) or killed (2) by conventionally-driven cars while riding on the road in 3 separate incidents, I have no doubt that such "assistance features" will make the road safer for bikes by augmenting the driver's awareness.
As to fully self-driving cars, don't think we're there yet.
By the way, a pedestrian was killed a couple years ago crossing the street in similar circumstances a few miles from where I live. Unfortunately accidents do happen, even (especially?) with human drivers.
04-13-18, 08:04 PM
#2927
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To say, blaming is not the correct... in context it's merely a recognition of the limits of a technology that in some applications, active cruise control is actually capable of bringing the car to a complete stop and start again -- as you would expect of a driverless car -- all without any action whatsoever on the part of the driver other than steering the car... it's a handy feature in stop and go driving situations such as miles of on crowded freeway driving.
I agree, my choice of bad wording.
04-16-18, 07:22 PM
#2928
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https://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle/...andhp#image=20
2 Years...
10 million cars on the road with Autonomous abilities... 
2 Years...
10 million cars on the road with Autonomous abilities...
04-16-18, 08:29 PM
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I also thought that this could be a safety issue for us, cyclists but as long as its system and internet of things(whch leads these technologies) works well and accurately, then there will always be a place for us in the pathways.
04-17-18, 04:26 PM
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A good article on Tesla's "Autopilot" and marketing claims the hardware is ready: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/04...ire-for-tesla/
This section echoes my opinion that Tesla is trying to do self-driving on the cheap:
The most obvious thing missing from Tesla's cars, from an autonomy perspective, is lidar. The companies that have made the most progress toward fully self-driving cars—including Waymo, Uber, and GM's Cruise—all have lidar on their cars.
Defying the industry consensus, Tesla CEO Elon Musk has repeatedly insisted that lidar is merely a "crutch" and that it's possible to build fully autonomous vehicles using only cameras and radar.
But most industry insiders believe lidar plays an important—and probably essential—role. Cameras offer high range and resolution, but they're not very good at estimating distances and they don't work as well in low-light conditions. Radar provides precise distance and velocity measurements but at very low resolution.
This section echoes my opinion that Tesla is trying to do self-driving on the cheap:
The most obvious thing missing from Tesla's cars, from an autonomy perspective, is lidar. The companies that have made the most progress toward fully self-driving cars—including Waymo, Uber, and GM's Cruise—all have lidar on their cars.
Defying the industry consensus, Tesla CEO Elon Musk has repeatedly insisted that lidar is merely a "crutch" and that it's possible to build fully autonomous vehicles using only cameras and radar.
But most industry insiders believe lidar plays an important—and probably essential—role. Cameras offer high range and resolution, but they're not very good at estimating distances and they don't work as well in low-light conditions. Radar provides precise distance and velocity measurements but at very low resolution.
04-19-18, 05:05 AM
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Off topic
I know the topic is how safe would it be for cyclists,, but as far as safety concern when we go to trains and trolley cars that will be "safe" have never seen trains jump off a track and kill or hurt a cyclists.. The very nature of motor vehicles combined with increase in population is a disaster waiting to happen, including the environmental damage .. Autonomous vehicles will pollute just the same.
04-19-18, 07:01 AM
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Wonder how the passengers would have fared on Southwest Flight 1380 flight after it encountered a difficult/unanticipated scenario, if Captain Tammie Jo Shults had been replaced with the software/hardware for an autonomously controlled aircraft?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/u...e-failure.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/u...e-failure.html
04-19-18, 02:01 PM
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Probably not. I don't expect it to make it more safe for drivers overall either though they will push it through anyways.
04-22-18, 04:55 PM
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Wonder how the passengers would have fared on Southwest Flight 1380 flight after it encountered a difficult/unanticipated scenario, if Captain Tammie Jo Shults had been replaced with the software/hardware for an autonomously controlled aircraft?
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/u...e-failure.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/u...e-failure.html
Don't forget the ginormous amount of electronics used to fly that plane as well. While she knew how to handle the plane, without the advanced controls and systems built into it the incident could have been quite difficult.
It's a testament to modern design how well that aircraft endured and only had one very unfortunate fatality. A depressurizing cabin is a very serious problem.
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05-01-18, 04:38 PM
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more real world fun with these can't use a car wash, but cleaning is critical to function... it is going to be the simple, non super tech things that are going to take time 
For self-driving cars, car washes are a nightmare
For self-driving cars, car washes are a nightmare
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05-02-18, 07:47 AM
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more real world fun with these can't use a car wash, but cleaning is critical to function... it is going to be the simple, non super tech things that are going to take time
For self-driving cars, car washes are a nightmare
For self-driving cars, car washes are a nightmare
05-02-18, 12:20 PM
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more details on issue with self driving cars from CA DMV reports
small quote
It turns out that a number of the issues reported are shared across technology from different companies. Some of the problems had to do with the way the cars sense the environment around them. Others had to do with how the vehicles maneuver on the road. And some had to do with what you might expect from systems made up of networked gadgets: hardware and software failures.
The disengagement reports themselves identify other problems some self-driving vehicles struggle with, for example heavy pedestrian traffic or poorly marked lanes.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/...n-dmv-reports/
small quote
It turns out that a number of the issues reported are shared across technology from different companies. Some of the problems had to do with the way the cars sense the environment around them. Others had to do with how the vehicles maneuver on the road. And some had to do with what you might expect from systems made up of networked gadgets: hardware and software failures.
The disengagement reports themselves identify other problems some self-driving vehicles struggle with, for example heavy pedestrian traffic or poorly marked lanes.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/05/...n-dmv-reports/
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05-02-18, 12:54 PM
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I bet the systems have trouble in sandstorms, too.
i bet early autopilots in planes had a ton of trouble with take-off and landing.
I haven't been to a car-wash in a while but i have never been to a car wash where I had to drive. every one I have been to, the car was pulled through on a conveyor ... probably so a stupid driver wouldn't speed up, stop, or turn and hit a machine.
05-02-18, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SJMN
Google spin-off Waymo described one of its vehicles failing to see that a “no right on red” signal had been turned on...
-mr. bill
05-03-18, 07:53 PM
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Wouldn't these be exactly the situations in which you'd expect such systems to be particularly challenged? That's like saying, "The blind audience members by and large did not comment on the movements of the ballerinas, and the deaf patrons seemed not to have much to say about the music."
I bet the systems have trouble in sandstorms, too.
i bet early autopilots in planes had a ton of trouble with take-off and landing.
I haven't been to a car-wash in a while but i have never been to a car wash where I had to drive. every one I have been to, the car was pulled through on a conveyor ... probably so a stupid driver wouldn't speed up, stop, or turn and hit a machine.
I bet the systems have trouble in sandstorms, too.
i bet early autopilots in planes had a ton of trouble with take-off and landing.
I haven't been to a car-wash in a while but i have never been to a car wash where I had to drive. every one I have been to, the car was pulled through on a conveyor ... probably so a stupid driver wouldn't speed up, stop, or turn and hit a machine.
Freezing rain will cause havoc with the AV sensors. Unless they build in heaters to clear the ice or, only operate in warm climates.
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05-04-18, 11:39 PM
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How
How can humans make a self driving car when we haven't landed on the moon yet?
05-05-18, 02:42 AM
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Takeoffs and landings are not controlled by 'auto-pilot'! They are not that simple.
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05-05-18, 03:17 AM
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But if you were looking for my Point ... I think you managed to overlook it.
That earns extra BF Bonus points. You win!
05-05-18, 07:49 AM
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05-05-18, 09:36 AM
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Take you valid information and get out of here ... this is A&S, and we don't need no facts.
05-05-18, 07:34 PM
#2946
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05-06-18, 09:25 AM
#2947
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The high cost of insurance doesn't deter them from bad driving either. They just complain about the high cost.
Regardless of what one's own opinion will be, one can bet insurance for manually-driven vehicles will be alot higher than for self-driving vehicles. One can argue and complain to the insurance companies about this, but unless there's legislation, they won't be budging.
Exactly. That's why insurance is so high. Bad drivers aren't thinking about that.
05-07-18, 01:02 AM
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05-07-18, 02:31 AM
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There should be some limitation on liabilities. if you strap a billion dollar satelite to a car and it gets damaged by a simple crash you obviously did not use due caution. Same with the automated car prototype and its sensors.
05-07-18, 06:16 PM
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/software-...213657866.html
According to this article the system recognized the woman and then ignored her because the software parameters were not set properly.
FWIW.
According to this article the system recognized the woman and then ignored her because the software parameters were not set properly.
FWIW.
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