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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 06-23-17, 09:21 PM
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Old 06-24-17, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by coominya
Don't Believe The Hype About A Driverless Society Being Just A Few Years Away

In 2009, screenwriter Charlie Kaufman spoke to a reporter about the excessive expectations that some people draw from movies. He highlighted how some hope for a life that mirrors Hollywood, and are eventually let down by reality. In the car world, autonomy is pegged as the ideal future, but will it happen as soon as our tech overlords say it will?

I think that people have expectations of themselves and other people that are based on these fictions that are presented to them as the way human life and relationships could be, in some sort of weird, ideal world, but they never are,” Kaufman said in that interview with The Scotsman. “So you’re constantly being shown this garbage and you can’t get there.”
The car industry does the same to consumers. There’s Lyft’s co-founder suggesting car ownership will be an outdated concept by 2025...
deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2
Gee, this piece is so well researched... NOT. Right in the middle it goes into this little "scare number..."
Back in June, just days before reports of the first fatal crash in a self-driving vehicle emerged...
The biggest issue being that no "self driving car" was involved... it was again, that same Tesla, with advanced cruise control.... but for the sake of this sensationalized hit piece... it is a dangerous "self driving car."

Ooooo. Are we scared yet?
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Old 06-24-17, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
Ooooo. Are we scared yet?
Sure, self driving cars are like ghosts, lots of people believe in them, despite scant evidence of their existence.
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Old 06-24-17, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Sure, self driving cars are like ghosts, lots of people believe in them, despite scant evidence of their existence.
Would you have believed that a vehicle will put on it's brakes autonomously even if the driver didn't, when it sensed a collision about to happen 10 or even 5 years ago.? Well they are here, sold to the public, not just tested but here, mass marketed... Even excepted as normal...
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Old 06-24-17, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Sure, self driving cars are like ghosts, lots of people believe in them, despite scant evidence of their existence.
Well in their complete and legal implementation, available to the general public, to be used on public roads, self driving cars in fact DO NOT YET EXIST.

So indeed you are quite right.

But, this is also somewhat like the early days of computing... when the TI-99 made the scene and the Apple 1 had just hit the streets... IBM was announcing that they saw no need for "a personal computer..."

Just a few years later IBM was selling the XT, Apple was selling the Apple ll and people were talking of getting a computer just so they could "put their recipes on it."

Now we have smartphones that have vastly more power than those old 8 bit machines, we surf and shop the internet daily, we have more pictures using space in memory chips than the first computers had in just memory space alone alone. (ooooo... a 10 meg hard drive... wow.... right up there with a google campus car, eh?)

Self driving cars are on the way... but don't expect the streets to be filled with driverless cars for 20 or more years. You have lots and lots of time to tell us that technology just won't do the trick... just like those folks way back in the early days of computing made statements like "there is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

Have a nice day.
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Old 06-24-17, 11:02 AM
  #306  
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
Would you have believed that a vehicle will put on it's brakes autonomously even if the driver didn't, when it sensed a collision about to happen 10 or even 5 years ago.? Well they are here, sold to the public, not just tested but here, mass marketed... Even excepted as normal...
He has to see published statistical evidence before admitting that such a thing is true.

Here is a press release regarding autobraking collision avoidance features from the NHTSA:
The U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety announced today a historic commitment by 20 automakers representing more than 99 percent of the U.S. auto market to make automatic emergency braking a standard feature on virtually all new cars no later than NHTSA's 2022 reporting year, which begins Sept. 1, 2022.
Automakers agree to standard AEB by 2022

So by 2022, 99% of all cars sold with be autobraking...

I cannot find a statistic that lists the number of cars on the road today with AEB (automatic emergency braking), but there is quite a list of vehicles available with this feature, and the IIHS has a short "glossy" report indicating that insurance companies are seeing fewer collision claims on average, from cars equipped with AEB.
Crash avoidance features cut insurance claims

Here is the list of current vehicles with AEB:
Acura RL, MDX, ZDX Acura RDX, TLX, ILX
Audi A8, A7 from 2010, A6 from 2011, Audi A3 from 2013, Audi Q7 from 2015.
BMW 2-Series, 3-Series, 5-Series, and others[20]
Buick Enclave
2013 Cadillac ATS, 2013 Cadillac XTS
Tenth generation Chevrolet Impala, Chevrolet Traverse, Chevrolet Equinox, Chevrolet Volt
Dodge Durango from 2011
Ford Edge, Everest, Fiesta, Fusion, Flex, Focus, Kuga, Taurus, Lincoln MKC, MKZ, MKX
2012 GMC Terrain, GMC Acadia
Honda Accord, Honda Civic, Honda CR-V, Inspire from 2003,
Hyundai Elantra from 2016
Infiniti FX, EX, Q50, QX56, QX60
Lexus LS from 2003, GS (2005), IS (2005), RX (2008), NX (2014)
Mazda 2, Mazda 3, 6, CX-3, CX-5, CX-9
Mercedes-Benz B Class, CLA Class, E-Class, S-class, M Class
Mitsubishi Outlander, Pajero Sport
Nissan X-Trail Tekna, 2015[21]
Peugeot 308, 2014
Skoda Octavia, 2013, third generation
SsangYong Rexton
Subaru Legacy, Outback, Forester, Impreza Subaru XV Crosstrek With Subaru EyeSight
Suzuki Kizashi, PRECRS, JDM only
Tesla Model S (2015 model year) Tesla Model X
Toyota Avensis Third Generation, Toyota Camry (with XLE option package), Toyota Mirai, Toyota Prius
Volkswagen Up!, SEAT Mii, Skoda Citigo, Golf R
Volvo V40, S60 II, V60, XC60, V70 III, XC70 II, S80 II, XC90 II, S90 II, V90 II
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Old 06-24-17, 11:52 AM
  #307  
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When a driverless car crashes the company could just lie and say the car wasn't in self-driving mode at the time, blaming the accident on the human owner like Tesla usually does when something goes wrong with their autopilot feature. How do you know if they are telling the truth or not?


Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt
Google's self-driving cars identify cyclists, yield the right of way when required by law or safety, never become inattentive, and have a 360 degree field of vision.
Driverless cars will require 360 degree field of hearing as well, to recognize and respond to emergency vehicle sirens, other cars honking at them, etc. More layers of complexity, more things that can break down.
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Old 06-24-17, 01:48 PM
  #308  
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Originally Posted by genec
But, this is also somewhat like the early days of computing... when the TI-99 made the scene and the Apple 1 had just hit the streets... IBM was announcing that they saw no need for "a personal computer..."

Just a few years later IBM was selling the XT, Apple was selling the Apple ll and people were talking of getting a computer just so they could "put their recipes on it."

Now we have smartphones that have vastly more power than those old 8 bit machines, we surf and shop the internet daily, we have more pictures using space in memory chips than the first computers had in just memory space alone alone. (ooooo... a 10 meg hard drive... wow.... right up there with a google campus car, eh?)

Self driving cars are on the way... but don't expect the streets to be filled with driverless cars for 20 or more years. You have lots and lots of time to tell us that technology just won't do the trick... just like those folks way back in the early days of computing made statements like "there is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."

Have a nice day.
Originally Posted by genec
He has to see published statistical evidence before admitting that such a thing is true.

Here is a press release regarding autobraking collision avoidance features from the NHTSA:
Here is the list of current vehicles with AEB:
Are vehicles with an autobraking feature now the new definition of "self driving cars"? I don't think so.

BTW, are we to deduce that because smartphones and personal computers have become available to the general public, and that man has walked on the moon, that every other desired technological dream project (for example a true self driving car... Level 4) will also be successful? Where are those flying cars in every garage?
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Old 06-24-17, 02:16 PM
  #309  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Are vehicles with an autobraking feature now the new definition of "self driving cars"? I don't think so.

BTW, are we to deduce that because smartphones and personal computers have become available to the general public, and that man has walked on the moon, that every other desired technological dream project (for example a true self driving car... Level 4) will also be successful? Where are those flying cars in every garage?
I don't recall major industry working on "flying cars" nor establishing standards for flying cars... However, if you insist...

Dubai to launch driverless flying cars by this summer | The National
5 companies building flying cars - Business Insider
Flying cars no longer a fantasy thanks to trailblazing designers and engineers | Style Magazine | South China Morning Post

But let's face it... you don't even believe automatically braking crash avoidance cars are real, much less the future of self driving cars... so of course flying cars cannot be real.
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Old 06-24-17, 02:35 PM
  #310  
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Originally Posted by genec
I don't recall major industry working on "flying cars" nor establishing standards for flying cars... However, if you insist...

Dubai to launch driverless flying cars by this summer | The National
5 companies building flying cars - Business Insider
Flying cars no longer a fantasy thanks to trailblazing designers and engineers | Style Magazine | South China Morning Post

But let's face it... you don't even believe automatically braking crash avoidance cars are real, much less the future of self driving cars... so of course flying cars cannot be real.
The subject is not about just one step (setting standards) in bringing real "self driving cars" successfully to market. Do real self driving cars (Level 4) exist or not?
Do you believe that current cars with a so-called crash avoidance braking system are self driving cars?
Don't be a dingbat and fabricate falsehoods about what I believe or posted.

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Old 06-24-17, 02:38 PM
  #311  
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I bet we see flying cars and autonomous cars about the same time.
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Old 06-24-17, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeOK
I bet we see flying cars and autonomous cars about the same time.
Maybe we will see the cure for cancer first; lotsa money spent on that desired and desirable goal too.

Then again alchemists have been working forever on turning lead into gold, but haven't been successful yet.
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Old 06-24-17, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
The subject is not about just one step (setting standards) in bringing real "self driving cars" successfully to market. Do real self driving cars (Level 4) exist or not?
Do you believe that current cars with a so-called crash avoidance braking system are self driving cars?
Don't be a dingbat and fabricate falsehoods about what I believe or posted.
back in post 310, I gave you those answers...
self driving cars in fact DO NOT YET EXIST.

So indeed you are quite right.
However, you foresee or at least seem to profess, that they won't ever arrive... and this is where we part company... just the braking aspect alone. (now mandated for 99% of all new cars in 2022) will make the roads safer for cyclists (the question of this thread). So just how far do self driving cars have to go to meet that standard... of making it safer for cyclists?

As a side note, the issue of flying cars is one of energy... it takes a lot of energy to make a car fly, vice roll.
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Old 06-24-17, 05:04 PM
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No @
genec , there are no fully autonomous cars in the showrooms across America. You can't buy one, no matter how much you stamp your feet and rant and rave, they don't exist yet, they only exist in the marketing videos, in your conditioned mind, and of course, in SiFi movies.

So if you really want to see a true autonomous car in action, get back to the movies, but not that movie about being stranded on MARS. We don't need a whole thread cluttered with your opinions about how mankind is going to have a colony on mars in a couple of years and will build a space elevator and be sending Martian minerals and oil back Blah Blah Blah.





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Old 06-24-17, 05:06 PM
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Waymo seeks Arizona volunteers for rides in self-driving cars

A licensed driver must be responsible for the vehicles, and the order allows universities to test vehicles with no driver on board so long as a licensed driver has responsibility for the cars and can take control remotely if the vehicle needs assistance.

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Old 06-24-17, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by coominya

No @
genec , there are no fully autonomous cars in the showrooms across America. You can't buy one, no matter how much you stamp your feet and rant and rave, they don't exist yet, they only exist in the marketing videos, in your conditioned mind, and of course, in SiFi movies.

So if you really want to see a true autonomous car in action, get back to the movies, but not that movie about being stranded on MARS. We don't need a whole thread cluttered with your opinions about how mankind is going to have a colony on mars in a couple of years and will build a space elevator and be sending Martian minerals and oil back Blah Blah Blah.





Please check your reading comprehension... I clearly said they are not here yet... Not only that, I have also indicated that it is highly likely that you will never "own" one. But hey, you'd have to actually follow a thread and read it to see that. I have also offered links to those who are involved in the industry... so you and anyone else can see where self driving cars are today, and what has been accomplished to date. But again, you have to actually READ to see that.

BTW in post 310 I actually say "self driving cars in fact DO NOT YET EXIST." CAN YOU READ?
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Old 06-24-17, 05:17 PM
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Nah, can't happen... they only exist in movies...
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Old 06-24-17, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Maybe we will see the cure for cancer first; lotsa money spent on that desired and desirable goal too.
The polls say no one wants to drive them
The evidence says they crash for the stupidest reasons
And logic dictates they would be like putting Pink Battle Tanks in a warzones after removing their main guns.

I couldn't think of a worse fate than being trapped in a car without a steering wheel on American roads. You're a sitting duck for every psycho with a grudge against technology and every kid who's bored and wants to kick some *ss

The blind believers here should go up and read some of the threads where cyclists are being shot and run off the roads. People in AI cars will get the same treatment. It will be a bloodbath if they ever went into production.

No, the gurus will make their billions as usual, and slowly back away as the whole brainless scheme is swept under the rug with all the other techno-failures. Oh there will be a car here and there, probably some tiny autonomous pizza car, but that's it.
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Old 06-24-17, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
back in post 310, I gave you those answers...

However, you foresee or at least seem to profess, that they won't ever arrive... and this is where we part company... just the braking aspect alone. (now mandated for 99% of all new cars in 2022) will make the roads safer for cyclists (the question of this thread). So just how far do self driving cars have to go to meet that standard... of making it safer for cyclists?

As a side note, the issue of flying cars is one of energy... it takes a lot of energy to make a car fly, vice roll.
What you seem to profess is nothing but your own fabricated straw man arguments about what I claim about what may or might happen in the future about self driving cars. To help you of your confusion between what I actually posted and what you fabricate, self driving cars are not here now, and don't seem likely to appear soon just because PR flacks and organizations are spending a lot of money on the their dream. Also claims about their certainty to to reduce traffic collisions if and when common are just so much speculation, wishful thinking and PR flackery.

You profess that "self driving cars in fact DO NOT YET EXIST" and then go on about an advance in braking systems and "just how far do self driving cars have to go to meet that standard... of making it safer for cyclists" as if that somehow reveals anything about when or if self driving cars will ever arrive let alone be a practical alternative to existing automotive systems.
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Old 06-24-17, 05:50 PM
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Waymo seeks Arizona volunteers for rides in self-driving cars
Originally Posted by genec
Nah, can't happen... they only exist in movies...

BTW in post 310 I actually say "self driving cars in fact DO NOT YET EXIST." CAN YOU READ?

Yes I can read, no need to shout. Can you discern between fact from fiction?
Half your posts admit they don't exist
While the other half talk about how great it's going to be when we're all driving them?

I don't think you have done any primary research into this technology, you have no idea even what these test models cost. You seem to be just parroting the latest blurb of the television set.

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Old 06-24-17, 06:39 PM
  #321  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
What you seem to profess is nothing but your own fabricated straw man arguments about what I claim about what may or might happen in the future about self driving cars. To help you of your confusion between what I actually posted and what you fabricate, self driving cars are not here now, and don't seem likely to appear soon just because PR flacks and organizations are spending a lot of money on the their dream. Also claims about their certainty to to reduce traffic collisions if and when common are just so much speculation, wishful thinking and PR flackery.

You profess that "self driving cars in fact DO NOT YET EXIST" and then go on about an advance in braking systems and "just how far do self driving cars have to go to meet that standard... of making it safer for cyclists" as if that somehow reveals anything about when or if self driving cars will ever arrive let alone be a practical alternative to existing automotive systems.

There is nothing I can say... this is all moving and future technology. Tech has a way of advancing quickly.

Wait and see... anything else is speculation.
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Old 06-24-17, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Nah, can't happen... they only exist in movies...
If you don't believe they already exist what exactly is your point?
Make up your mind! Do you believe self driving cars already exist or not?
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Old 06-24-17, 10:32 PM
  #323  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
If you don't believe they already exist what exactly is your point?
Make up your mind! Do you believe self driving cars already exist or not?
Really?

Prototypes exist and are being tested. None exist for general public use, except some campus vehicles.

The tech that has been developed, toward the eventual true class 4 self driving car, such as AEB... an agreed upon eventual standard item, has lead to ins co claims of fewer collisions.

The question posed by the OP was "would." A completely law abiding vehicle "would" be safer than a vehicle driven by human drivers.

There it is.
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Old 06-24-17, 10:39 PM
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What are the insurance companies going to do when all these cars start crashing into each other because they lost a signal or some other required thing? They won't have a person to blame.
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Old 06-24-17, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
such as AEB... an agreed upon eventual standard item, has lead to ins co claims of fewer collisions.
Please explain or translate what "ins co claims of fewer collisions" means in regards to vehicles that don't currently exist and may (or may not ever) be owned and driven by the public in the future. Do you mean insurance company speculation about future claims on futuristic cars driven on futuristic traffic road systems?
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