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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 11-14-17, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
I haven't heard of this proposal. Is it on kickstarter?
Brush up on your old copies of Popular Science and the like from the 40's, or 50's or 60's etc.
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Old 11-14-17, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
AeroMobil 4.0 official video

Here's the thing though.

Some of us have walked and ridden among self-driving cars - cars that you say don't exist outside of "tightly controled" test environments.

Some of us have walked and ridden among conventional Ubers and Lyfts too. (Some of us have even taken an Uber or Lyft. I know? Amazing, huh?)



Yet you are *terrified* of the self-driving cars, because, why?

(ps. Flying car - sucks as a car, sucks as a plane. Who knows why they've never "taken off?")

-mr. bill
More cryptic baloney knocking down straw man arguments. While on your next foray into Googling for Factoids, look up the definition of skeptical. Hint it is not synonymous. with terrified
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Old 11-14-17, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
More cryptic baloney knocking down straw man arguments.
A bit of an ironic juxtaposition to reference "straw man arguments" immediately after posting 60 year old Popular Science covers to "prove" ........ actually, I'm not really sure what those are supposed to prove.
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Old 11-14-17, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Level 2 sucks
Originally Posted by noisebeam
The human operator is again the weak point.
Clicking through from road.cc -> Fortune -> Medium:

Originally Posted by Human
To clarify, the car we drove was early 2016 Model S with “Hardware 1,” so there do exist Tesla’s with later versions of the software and additional sensing capabilities. Great question: Were we given training before being allowed to rent the car? The answer is no.
Question? DID ANY OF YOU POST-DOCS READ THE [expletive deleted] MANUAL**********

Originally Posted by Human
Since it’s our field, Wendy Ju had us rent a TESLA, that way our group could experience the closest thing out there to consumer autonomous driving today. Naturally, we took it to the beach. For research. I share Dylan and my report card for its features below.

Originally Posted by MANUAL
Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways and freeways. It should not be used on city streets.
Originally Posted by Human
C [USER-SET TARGET VELOCITY] — dangerous: autopilot seeks to achieve the cruise-control set speed as long as there is not an obstacle. This works fine on the a consistent street like a highway, but we discovered the hard way when we exited the highway onto a country road, switched autopilot on, and it tried to go from 30 to 65mph at maximum acceleration. Expert users would be familiar with this, but we think Tesla can do better.

Originally Posted by MANUAL
Warning: Do not rely on Speed Assist to determine an accurate or appropriate cruising speed. Always cruise at a safe speed based on road conditions.
Originally Posted by Human
A+ [SITUATION AWARENESS DISPLAY] — this display helps the human drivers have a mental model of what the car sees. I’d estimate that Autopilot classified ~30% of other cars, and 1% of bicyclists. Not being able to classify objects doesn’t mean the Tesla doesn’t see that something is there, but given the lives at stake, we recommend that people NEVER USE TESLA AUTOPILOT AROUND BICYCLISTS!

Originally Posted by MANUAL
Warning: Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited-access roads with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer on city streets, in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause serious property damage, injury or death.
-mr. bill
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Old 11-14-17, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
look up the definition of skeptical.
I don't intend to look for non existent words erroneously claimed to be real by others.

-mr. bill
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Old 11-14-17, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
A bit of an ironic juxtaposition to reference "straw man arguments" immediately after posting 60 year old Popular Science covers to "prove" ........ actually, I'm not really sure what those are supposed to prove.
They prove that popular media claims, culled from promoters' press releases, that "the Next Greatest Consumer Invention, Ever and the New Future World beckons" and that these inventions are ready for prime time, have been eagerly promoted by gullible fan boys in the press and the public for decades.
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Old 11-14-17, 10:13 AM
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You can see how the newsreel inspired the Popular Mechanics story. (If someone bothered to read the story.)

(ps. A helicopter is not a flying car.)

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 11-14-17 at 10:48 AM.
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Old 11-14-17, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
They prove that popular media claims, culled from promoters' press releases, that "the Next Greatest Consumer Invention, Ever and the New Future World beckons" and that these inventions are ready for prime time, have been eagerly promoted by gullible fan boys in the press and the public for decades.
Are you seriously comparing fantastic predictions about future technology which would be revolutionary to predictions about future technology based on relatively minor incremental changes to existing proven technology?

Not being gullible is one thing. Learning to read and think critically is quite another.
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Old 11-14-17, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill

(ps. Flying car - sucks as a car, sucks as a plane. Who knows why they've never "taken off?")

-mr. bill
With quick regard to the notion of flying cars... Really, would we want those things flying around with the sort of land based human drivers (pilots) we have now? Can you imagine the havoc they could reek just flying and landing/crashing where ever the human points them?

The reality is flying cars could not exist until they could be safely controlled... by something like autonomous control features.

(and of course there is the "other issue" of the power requirements to keep one in the air)

Yeah, it is ludicrous for some to keep comparing the "promise" of flying cars to the straight forward development of AVs... One may as well cite "flying carpets..."
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Old 11-14-17, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
With quick regard to the notion of flying cars... Really, would we want those things flying around with the sort of land based human drivers (pilots) we have now? Can you imagine the havoc they could reek just flying and landing/crashing where ever the human points them?

The reality is flying cars could not exist until they could be safely controlled... by something like autonomous control features.
Well, we don't have to imagine. There are recreational pilots flying planes and helicopters now.

But there is a startup near here, Terrafugia, who is taking orders for a flying car - the Transition, scheduled to ship to customers in 2019. Key to their business model is to allow someone with a "sports pilot certificate" to fly one. (They needed a waiver, because they are actually a bit heavy for a light sport aircraft.) It also incorporates autonomous technologies, whatever that means.

Their name is derived from the Latin-ish, they claim it is derived from "Escape the Earth."

It brings to my mind the Latin sentence "Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine."

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 11-14-17 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 11-14-17, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Well, we don't have to imagine. There are private pilots flying planes and helicopters now.

But there is a startup near here, Terrafugia, who is taking orders for a flying car - the Transition, scheduled to ship to customers in 2019. Key to their business model is to allow someone with a "sports pilot certificate" to fly one. (They needed a waiver, because they are actually a bit heavy for a light sport aircraft.) It also incorporates autonomous technologies, whatever that means.

Their name is derived from the Latin-ish, they claim it is derived from "Escape the Earth."

It brings to my mind the Latin sentence "Requiem aeternam dona eis, Domine."

-mr. bill
Trained pilots are one thing... but people are thinking flying cars should be for everyone... and THAT, based on current collision data, is well, "an accident waiting to happen."

Take the controls away from every "Tom, Dick and Harry" and make it computer controlled... then, well, maybe.
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Old 11-14-17, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Trained pilots are one thing... but people are thinking flying cars should be for everyone... and THAT, based on current collision data, is well, "an accident waiting to happen."

Take the controls away from every "Tom, Dick and Harry" and make it computer controlled... then, well, maybe.
I have complete faith that almost nobody will want to purchase a sucks as a car, sucks as a plane, let alone drive or fly them.

Then again, who am I to "turn up my nose" at such things, so maybe the roads and skies will indeed be filled with sucks as cars, sucks as planes. We'll want to add scanning the skies for incoming to scanning for left crosses and right hooks.

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 11-14-17 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 11-14-17, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Well, we don't have to imagine. There are recreational pilots flying planes and helicopters now.
Yes there are and the death and dismemberment statistics are as bad as you can imagine. Probably the only reason private pilots can get insurance at all is because pilots are usually wealthier than the general population and NOT because private piloting is so inherently safe.
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Old 11-14-17, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
More cryptic baloney knocking down straw man arguments. While on your next foray into Googling for Factoids, look up the definition of skeptical. Hint it is not synonymous. with terrified
The skepticism would be warranted 10 years ago. In 2017, after the public go lives of numerous testing programs both controlled and uncontrolled, any continued skepticism marks the skeptic as being kind of mentally suspect if you really want the truth.
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Old 11-14-17, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
I have complete faith that almost nobody will want to purchase a sucks as a car, sucks as a plane, let alone drive or fly them.

Then again, who am I to "turn up my nose" at such things, so maybe the roads and skies will indeed be filled with sucks as cars, sucks as planes. We'll want to add scanning the skies for incoming to scanning for left crosses and right hooks.

-mr. bill
No, you are right... people want "Jetsons flying cars." Not the sucks as both car/plane. So this really isn't an issue... except to those that feel it was some sort of "tech promise never kept." Those folks will just have to live with the tech that actually makes it to the market... IE not "Beta Video tape." Heck, remember "Laser Discs?" Where are those today? Same place as buggy whips.
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Old 11-14-17, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Heck, remember "Laser Discs?" Where are those today? Same place as buggy whips.
They have laser discs in the buggy whip museum?
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Old 11-14-17, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
They have laser discs in the buggy whip museum?
Yup, right next to the Edsels... which are behind the flying car display.
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Old 11-14-17, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Yup, right next to the Edsels... which are behind the flying car display.
And right next to sucks as phone, sucks as camera.

Though history later proved if you got it right you could kill Kodak and Polaroid and....

-mr. bill
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Old 11-14-17, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Though history later proved if you got it right you could kill Kodak and Polaroid and....
Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated -Edwin Land

https://www.amazon.com/Polaroid-PIC-.../dp/B003B2ITI4
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Old 11-14-17, 06:56 PM
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I didn't see this posted here yet, I just got it in an email earlier.
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/cy...iving-features

Last edited by dksix; 11-14-17 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
They prove that popular media claims, culled from promoters' press releases, that "the Next Greatest Consumer Invention, Ever and the New Future World beckons" and that these inventions are ready for prime time, have been eagerly promoted by gullible fan boys in the press and the public for decades.
An almost perfect analogy to the state of self driving vehicle technology today.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:33 PM
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Food for thought.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated -Edwin Land

https://www.amazon.com/Polaroid-PIC-.../dp/B003B2ITI4
Fuji by way of Kodak (sort of).

20x24 is done.

Kind of like “Hi, Neighbor, have a 'Gansett!”

-mr. bill
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Old 11-14-17, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dksix
I didn't see this posted here yet, I just got it in an email earlier.
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/cy...iving-features
I was wondering the same thing myself.
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Old 11-15-17, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dksix
I didn't see this posted here yet, I just got it in an email earlier.
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/cy...iving-features
Level 2 sucks. And still undetermined is whether it was even engaged.
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