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Old 11-14-17, 05:03 PM   #626
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They have laser discs in the buggy whip museum?
Yup, right next to the Edsels... which are behind the flying car display.
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Old 11-14-17, 06:07 PM   #627
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Yup, right next to the Edsels... which are behind the flying car display.
And right next to sucks as phone, sucks as camera.

Though history later proved if you got it right you could kill Kodak and Polaroid and....

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Old 11-14-17, 06:38 PM   #628
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Though history later proved if you got it right you could kill Kodak and Polaroid and....
Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated -Edwin Land

https://www.amazon.com/Polaroid-PIC-.../dp/B003B2ITI4
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Old 11-14-17, 06:56 PM   #629
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I didn't see this posted here yet, I just got it in an email earlier.
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/cy...iving-features

Last edited by dksix; 11-14-17 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:21 PM   #630
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They prove that popular media claims, culled from promoters' press releases, that "the Next Greatest Consumer Invention, Ever and the New Future World beckons" and that these inventions are ready for prime time, have been eagerly promoted by gullible fan boys in the press and the public for decades.
An almost perfect analogy to the state of self driving vehicle technology today.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:33 PM   #631
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Food for thought.
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Old 11-14-17, 07:39 PM   #632
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Rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated -Edwin Land

https://www.amazon.com/Polaroid-PIC-.../dp/B003B2ITI4
Fuji by way of Kodak (sort of).

20x24 is done.

Kind of like “Hi, Neighbor, have a 'Gansett!”

-mr. bill
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Old 11-14-17, 07:59 PM   #633
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I didn't see this posted here yet, I just got it in an email earlier.
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/cy...iving-features
I was wondering the same thing myself.
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Old 11-15-17, 04:52 AM   #634
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I didn't see this posted here yet, I just got it in an email earlier.
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/cy...iving-features
Level 2 sucks. And still undetermined is whether it was even engaged.
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Old 11-15-17, 09:08 AM   #635
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Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their self driving cars!
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Old 11-15-17, 02:34 PM   #636
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Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their self driving cars!
Nothing in our lifetimes will come close to how much AVs will affect cycling safety and advocacy.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:29 AM   #637
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So far, all of the automated vehicles on public roads have actual humans present. What we don't know is how much interaction actually takes place between the vehicle and its operator. If no interaction was necessary, this conversation wouldn't exist.

Regardless of public safety, this technology is being forced on the public, freedom of movement will soon be a luxury, not a right.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:36 AM   #638
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So far, all of the automated vehicles on public roads have actual humans present. What we don't know is how much interaction actually takes place between the vehicle and its operator. If no interaction was necessary, this conversation wouldn't exist.

Regardless of public safety, this technology is being forced on the public, freedom of movement will soon be a luxury, not a right.
Wrong.

Quote:
Waymo, the autonomous vehicle division of Alphabet, Google's parent company, reached an important milestone recently: since mid-October, the company has been operating its autonomous minivans on public roads in Arizona without a safety driver — or any human at all — behind the wheel.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/7/1...ler-autonomous
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Old 11-16-17, 08:40 AM   #639
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Read the article.

Quote:
There are some caveats, of course. A Waymo employee will remain in the vehicle for now. But instead of being in the front seat, that employee will likely sit behind the driver’s seat. (Waymo says that won’t always be the case, though.) The cars won’t have free rein over Arizona’s roads. They’ll be geofenced within a 100-square-mile area of the town of Chandler, a suburb of Phoenix — though Waymo says it plans to expand to areas beyond that as its cars collect more data and conduct more trips. And the cars won’t be available to just anyone who wants to go for a ride. Members of Waymo’s Early Rider program, which has been in operation in Chandler since last April, will be the first to experience the new technology.
Closed course. Show me how this will work in Shanghai traffic.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:43 AM   #640
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Read the article.
How much driving can one do from behind the drivers seat?
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Old 11-16-17, 09:12 AM   #641
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Sorry, its a closed course, case closed.

Somehow I doubt the population density of the whole state of Arizona comes anywhere close to what exists in typical urban centers that most of the human population lives in.

Not ready for prime time.
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Old 11-16-17, 09:30 AM   #642
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Sorry, its a closed course, case closed.

Somehow I doubt the population density of the whole state of Arizona comes anywhere close to what exists in typical urban centers that most of the human population lives in.

Not ready for prime time.
OK, I'll contact everyone and have them stop right now... obviously you know what is right. Apparently there is no reason to procede.
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Old 11-16-17, 09:34 AM   #643
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Good luck with that.
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Old 11-16-17, 10:21 AM   #644
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Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their ̶s̶e̶l̶f̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ cars!
fify
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Old 11-16-17, 10:32 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their ̶s̶e̶l̶f̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ cars!
fify
More accurately, some BF members love their cars or using them, just as they may love their bicycles or riding them, and some posters seem to hate other people who own or drive cars for any reason that the haters disapprove.
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Old 11-16-17, 07:57 PM   #646
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Automation like the automobile is just a tool.

It can be a weapon, or beneficial, depending on the user.

Humans, unfortunately can't be automated, (yet) and this is why there will always be unintended consequences.

Technology works best when it is open source, and relatively easy for most people to understand.

The bicycle, (and the automobile before everything went electronic) are mostly user serviceable, the common person could repair most problems with minimal training or expertise.

Looking at the track record of Google, one of the major players in AV technology doesn't inspire confidence.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:25 PM   #647
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Sorry, its a closed course, case closed.

Somehow I doubt the population density of the whole state of Arizona comes anywhere close to what exists in typical urban centers that most of the human population lives in.

Not ready for prime time.
It is a geo restricted area, but on public roads open to everyone, not closed.
Phx-metro is the 12th largest metro area in USA. 4.6M people.
The initial geo restricted area of Chandler AZ has 250k pop, 65 sq.mi.
I like cycling around these machines.
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Old 11-17-17, 12:19 AM   #648
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It is a geo restricted area, but on public roads open to everyone, not closed.
Phx-metro is the 12th largest metro area in USA. 4.6M people.
The initial geo restricted area of Chandler AZ has 250k pop, 65 sq.mi.
I like cycling around these machines.
How many have you cycled around?

I can see this being possible, in limited numbers on relatively low traffic roads.

In China, even the most well intentioned road users end up in some sort of accident sooner or later.
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Old 11-17-17, 03:23 AM   #649
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More accurately, some BF members love their cars or using them, just as they may love their bicycles or riding them, and some posters seem to hate other people who own or drive cars for any reason that the haters disapprove.
While that division between BF members and posters undoubtedly does exist to some degree, it does not seem to be behind the differences of opinion in this thread. Car-driving loving and car hating both seem to underlie resistance to, and skepticism of, self-driving cars.

Did you miss the recent piece by Bob Lutz? Not exactly a car hater.

www.autonews.com/article/20171105/INDUSTRY_REDESIGNED/171109944/bob-lutz:-kiss-the-good-times-goodbye

Yet he gets it. Why don't you?
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Old 11-17-17, 03:34 AM   #650
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Automation like the automobile is just a tool.

It can be a weapon, or beneficial, depending on the user.

Humans, unfortunately can't be automated, (yet) and this is why there will always be unintended consequences.

Technology works best when it is open source, and relatively easy for most people to understand.

The bicycle, (and the automobile before everything went electronic) are mostly user serviceable, the common person could repair most problems with minimal training or expertise.

Looking at the track record of Google, one of the major players in AV technology doesn't inspire confidence.
You haven't read much of this thread, have you?

Self-driving cars shouldn't have to be perfect to be successful. Just better than a human driver, which is a very low bar.

Some time ago Google/Waymo crossed the 3 million self-driven mile mark, with zero crashes and rapidly declining rates of incidence of need for human driver intervention.

The self-driving ship has not only sailed, it has arrived at its destination, and is merely making its way to port.
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