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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 11-15-17, 09:08 AM
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Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their self driving cars!
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Old 11-15-17, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their self driving cars!
Nothing in our lifetimes will come close to how much AVs will affect cycling safety and advocacy.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:29 AM
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So far, all of the automated vehicles on public roads have actual humans present. What we don't know is how much interaction actually takes place between the vehicle and its operator. If no interaction was necessary, this conversation wouldn't exist.

Regardless of public safety, this technology is being forced on the public, freedom of movement will soon be a luxury, not a right.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
So far, all of the automated vehicles on public roads have actual humans present. What we don't know is how much interaction actually takes place between the vehicle and its operator. If no interaction was necessary, this conversation wouldn't exist.

Regardless of public safety, this technology is being forced on the public, freedom of movement will soon be a luxury, not a right.
Wrong.

Waymo, the autonomous vehicle division of Alphabet, Google's parent company, reached an important milestone recently: since mid-October, the company has been operating its autonomous minivans on public roads in Arizona without a safety driver or any human at all behind the wheel.
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/7/1...ler-autonomous
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Old 11-16-17, 08:40 AM
  #630  
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Read the article.

There are some caveats, of course. A Waymo employee will remain in the vehicle for now. But instead of being in the front seat, that employee will likely sit behind the driver’s seat. (Waymo says that won’t always be the case, though.) The cars won’t have free rein over Arizona’s roads. They’ll be geofenced within a 100-square-mile area of the town of Chandler, a suburb of Phoenix — though Waymo says it plans to expand to areas beyond that as its cars collect more data and conduct more trips. And the cars won’t be available to just anyone who wants to go for a ride. Members of Waymo’s Early Rider program, which has been in operation in Chandler since last April, will be the first to experience the new technology.
Closed course. Show me how this will work in Shanghai traffic.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Read the article.
How much driving can one do from behind the drivers seat?
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Old 11-16-17, 09:12 AM
  #632  
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Sorry, its a closed course, case closed.

Somehow I doubt the population density of the whole state of Arizona comes anywhere close to what exists in typical urban centers that most of the human population lives in.

Not ready for prime time.
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Old 11-16-17, 09:30 AM
  #633  
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Sorry, its a closed course, case closed.

Somehow I doubt the population density of the whole state of Arizona comes anywhere close to what exists in typical urban centers that most of the human population lives in.

Not ready for prime time.
OK, I'll contact everyone and have them stop right now... obviously you know what is right. Apparently there is no reason to procede.
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Old 11-16-17, 09:34 AM
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Good luck with that.
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Old 11-16-17, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their ̶s̶e̶l̶f̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ cars!
fify
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Old 11-16-17, 10:32 AM
  #636  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick
Wow, 635 posts! BF members really love/hate their ̶s̶e̶l̶f̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶v̶i̶n̶g̶ cars!
fify
More accurately, some BF members love their cars or using them, just as they may love their bicycles or riding them, and some posters seem to hate other people who own or drive cars for any reason that the haters disapprove.
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Old 11-16-17, 07:57 PM
  #637  
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Automation like the automobile is just a tool.

It can be a weapon, or beneficial, depending on the user.

Humans, unfortunately can't be automated, (yet) and this is why there will always be unintended consequences.

Technology works best when it is open source, and relatively easy for most people to understand.

The bicycle, (and the automobile before everything went electronic) are mostly user serviceable, the common person could repair most problems with minimal training or expertise.

Looking at the track record of Google, one of the major players in AV technology doesn't inspire confidence.
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Old 11-16-17, 08:25 PM
  #638  
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Sorry, its a closed course, case closed.

Somehow I doubt the population density of the whole state of Arizona comes anywhere close to what exists in typical urban centers that most of the human population lives in.

Not ready for prime time.
It is a geo restricted area, but on public roads open to everyone, not closed.
Phx-metro is the 12th largest metro area in USA. 4.6M people.
The initial geo restricted area of Chandler AZ has 250k pop, 65 sq.mi.
I like cycling around these machines.
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Old 11-17-17, 12:19 AM
  #639  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
It is a geo restricted area, but on public roads open to everyone, not closed.
Phx-metro is the 12th largest metro area in USA. 4.6M people.
The initial geo restricted area of Chandler AZ has 250k pop, 65 sq.mi.
I like cycling around these machines.
How many have you cycled around?

I can see this being possible, in limited numbers on relatively low traffic roads.

In China, even the most well intentioned road users end up in some sort of accident sooner or later.
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Old 11-17-17, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
More accurately, some BF members love their cars or using them, just as they may love their bicycles or riding them, and some posters seem to hate other people who own or drive cars for any reason that the haters disapprove.
While that division between BF members and posters undoubtedly does exist to some degree, it does not seem to be behind the differences of opinion in this thread. Car-driving loving and car hating both seem to underlie resistance to, and skepticism of, self-driving cars.

Did you miss the recent piece by Bob Lutz? Not exactly a car hater.

www.autonews.com/article/20171105/INDUSTRY_REDESIGNED/171109944/bob-lutz:-kiss-the-good-times-goodbye

Yet he gets it. Why don't you?
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Old 11-17-17, 03:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Automation like the automobile is just a tool.

It can be a weapon, or beneficial, depending on the user.

Humans, unfortunately can't be automated, (yet) and this is why there will always be unintended consequences.

Technology works best when it is open source, and relatively easy for most people to understand.

The bicycle, (and the automobile before everything went electronic) are mostly user serviceable, the common person could repair most problems with minimal training or expertise.

Looking at the track record of Google, one of the major players in AV technology doesn't inspire confidence.
You haven't read much of this thread, have you?

Self-driving cars shouldn't have to be perfect to be successful. Just better than a human driver, which is a very low bar.

Some time ago Google/Waymo crossed the 3 million self-driven mile mark, with zero crashes and rapidly declining rates of incidence of need for human driver intervention.

The self-driving ship has not only sailed, it has arrived at its destination, and is merely making its way to port.
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Old 11-17-17, 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
So far, all of the automated vehicles on public roads have actual humans present. What we don't know is how much interaction actually takes place between the vehicle and its operator. If no interaction was necessary, this conversation wouldn't exist.
This data is a couple of years old but shows the rate of improvement in the technology.



Regardless of public safety, this technology is being forced on the public, freedom of movement will soon be a luxury, not a right.
To the contrary, this technology will enhance freedom of movement.

Nothing inhibits freedom of movement like being hit by a multi-thousand pound machine operated by an errant human.
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Old 11-17-17, 04:08 AM
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2016 Google Waymo California disengagement report

California requires AV testers to track and file disengagements - incidents where a human had to intervene.

Here is Google's 2016 report. It's a large PDF, but clarifies much.

www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/wcm/connect/946b3502-c959-4e3b-b119-91319c27788f/GoogleAutoWaymo_disengage_report_2016.pdf

Reports from others for 2016 are linked here:

www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/vr/autonomous/disengagement_report_2016

But nobody else comes close to what Waymo has accomplished, at least not in California.
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Old 11-17-17, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
It is a geo restricted area, but on public roads open to everyone, not closed.
Phx-metro is the 12th largest metro area in USA. 4.6M people.
The initial geo restricted area of Chandler AZ has 250k pop, 65 sq.mi.
Sorry, this thread must remain free of facts. The only thing that matters is the unbeliever. Or is it the believer, who is one of the select who sees through the vast conspiracies?

Of course Chandler is open. So too is Pittsburgh.

Which just “proves” that you and I are part of the grand conspiracy.

But there are closed courses where automated vehicles are being tested too. Mcity and Uber ATC for example.

Originally Posted by noisebeam
I like cycling around these machines.
I too would rather ride next to an automated Uber being tested than ride next to an Uber.

By the way, how do you like cycling around car planes?


-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 11-17-17 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 11-17-17, 07:38 AM
  #645  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
By the way, how do you like cycling around car planes?
Drafting them takes cycling to a whole new level.
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Old 11-17-17, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
Drafting them takes cycling to a whole new level.
Around here cycling around around car planes is a non-issue.

-mr.bill
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Old 11-17-17, 10:51 AM
  #647  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Around here cycling around around car planes is a non-issue.

-mr.bill
Uh, "car planes?"

I guess I missed where you got that one...
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Old 11-17-17, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
Technology works best when it is open source, and relatively easy for most people to understand.
Not true. That are some applications (e.g. cryptography) that can benefit from open source, but open source doesn't correlate with quality in the least. But making the user interface easy to understand is generally a good thing.
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Old 11-17-17, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
Uh, "car planes?"

I guess I missed where you got that one...
Plane cars? Cairplanes? Plars? Air Car? (The Jetsons called it a Space Car afterall.)

Maybe it's the name that's the problem.

-mr. bill
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Old 11-17-17, 12:05 PM
  #650  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill
Plane cars? Cairplanes? Plars? Air Car? (The Jetsons called it a Space Car afterall.)

Maybe it's the name that's the problem.

-mr. bill
Oh. Flying car.
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