Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 11-17-17, 12:10 PM
  #651  
Arizona Dessert
 
noisebeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: AZ
Posts: 15,029

Bikes: Cannondale SuperSix, Lemond Poprad. Retired: Jamis Sputnik, Centurion LeMans Fixed, Diamond Back ascent ex

Liked 2,169 Times in 1,288 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Oh. Flying car.
Can I repeat my joke? It seemed to fall flat the first time.

Originally Posted by noisebeam
Drafting them takes cycling to a whole new level.
noisebeam is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 12:19 PM
  #652  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by noisebeam
Can I repeat my joke? It seemed to fall flat the first time.
It was the non segue shift in post Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists? that threw me...

It went from cycling around AV "machines" to drafting car planes... without much of leap...
genec is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 06:49 PM
  #653  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
It was the non segue shift in post Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists? that threw me...

It went from cycling around AV "machines" to drafting car planes... without much of leap...
Won’t quit my day job. Driving planes?

Anyhow, pretty much one of the few things from The Jetsons that hasn’t come true becomes the “truth” of conspiracy theorists. Oh, we didn’t land on the moon either, and the Earth is flat.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 11-17-17, 10:26 PM
  #654  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Those folks will just have to live with the tech that actually makes it to the market... IE not "Beta Video tape."
Uh...hate to break it to you, but Betamax is still in commercial use, because it always was the better format. Sony killed it for the consumer market by being greedy and keeping it proprietary.

Heck, remember "Laser Discs?" Where are those today? Same place as buggy whips.
Really wish someone would apply BluRay technology in a LaserDisc form factor. That should be able to back up an entire hard drive (or several) on just a few discs. (And thus a lot less user time spent swapping discs.) A 12cm standard CD/DVD/BluRay has roughly 8605 sq mm of recording area, and triple layer BluRay fits 100GB in that, so at ~7.5x the recording area, fitting most of a TB on a single 30cm LaserDisc isn't unreasonable.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 01:25 AM
  #655  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,058
Liked 777 Times in 543 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH

Really wish someone would apply BluRay technology in a LaserDisc form factor. That should be able to back up an entire hard drive (or several) on just a few discs. (And thus a lot less user time spent swapping discs.) A 12cm standard CD/DVD/BluRay has roughly 8605 sq mm of recording area, and triple layer BluRay fits 100GB in that, so at ~7.5x the recording area, fitting most of a TB on a single 30cm LaserDisc isn't unreasonable.
What, The Cloud isn't a good enough backup medium for you?
Leisesturm is offline  
Old 11-18-17, 07:06 AM
  #656  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by Leisesturm
What, The Cloud isn't a good enough backup medium for you?
It's unsecure. Too many hacks of supposedly secure data shows just that. (Equifax, anyone? Even the NSA has been hacked) Plus, I don't trust businesses to not raise prices for cloud services while holding your data "hostage" (photobucket, anyone?)

I find external 2T USB HDs vastly more portable than "30cm laser discs" that won't fit into any slot on my PC or laptops.

Last edited by genec; 11-18-17 at 07:10 AM.
genec is offline  
Old 11-19-17, 11:33 PM
  #657  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Does "smartphone tapping" also mean that affordable personal flying cars in every garage really are ready for imminent release, production and adaption by the public?

It only means that Judy Jetson will want to borrow the flying car for a date.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 11-19-17, 11:48 PM
  #658  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Really wish someone would apply BluRay technology in a LaserDisc form factor. That should be able to back up an entire hard drive (or several) on just a few discs. (And thus a lot less user time spent swapping discs.) A 12cm standard CD/DVD/BluRay has roughly 8605 sq mm of recording area, and triple layer BluRay fits 100GB in that, so at ~7.5x the recording area, fitting most of a TB on a single 30cm LaserDisc isn't unreasonable.

Considering that the last software titles were pressed in 2001 and the machines retired in 2009 or '10, you have as much chance to get then on CEDs.


And BOTH were used to store sequential single frame files such as catalogs of art.


Laserdiscs were haphazard from the start, the construction was salvaged from poorly conceived ideas (led by Lew Wasserman of MCA, who was sure that he could just press them like records, not so and it needed 'clean rooms' and lots of QC to get rid of defects. Then the MCA Discovision Associates people basically stabbed co-developer Philips in the back by changing the playback standards before the introduction of Magnavox players and not telling them, it almost died, IBM stepped in and that fell apart and if Pioneer hadn't agreed to take over not only would it have died but DVD might have taken much longer. Pioneer held themselves together on Laserdisc, video and later optical computer drive sales as their markets in traditional analog devices was shrinking. Even so, today Pioneer is part of Onkyo now.


Using LD as a rewritable or once-recordable medium was possible, the machines existed for commercial use but were prohibitively expensive then, and made obsolete by solid state devices now.


It's not that simple to reintroduce old formats or modify them as you wish. Capital, equipment and development resources have to be there, and if you haven't noticed, Japan Inc. is a shell of it's former self. Who would start this up when they'd have to build all new machines as the old ones were scrapped 16 years ago? At least the patents are for the most part in one place.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 11-20-17, 12:31 PM
  #659  
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,076

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-24-000-volvos

Uber just signed a deal to buy 24000 self driving Volvos. Guess they got suckered in by all the "hype".
tyrion is offline  
Old 11-20-17, 01:50 PM
  #660  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by Volvo
Volvo Cars, the premium car maker, has signed a framework agreement with Uber, the ride sharing company, to sell tens of thousands of autonomous driving compatible base vehicles between 2019 and 2021.
Up to 24,000 cars, a few years from now.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 07:20 AM
  #661  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-24-000-volvos

Uber just signed a deal to buy 24000 self driving Volvos. Guess they got suckered in by all the "hype".
Wow, all that just to service that small area in Chandler AZ...
genec is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 09:55 AM
  #662  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,035

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Liked 1,598 Times in 1,079 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-24-000-volvos

Uber just signed a deal to buy 24000 self driving Volvos. Guess they got suckered in by all the "hype".
Note that none of the vehicles bought from Volvo will be self driving cars. Volvo's press release notes that Uber will add its own sensors and software to permit pilot-less driving.

No mention was made about the status of the "sensors and software" to be specified at a later date.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 11:09 AM
  #663  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Note that none of the vehicles bought from Volvo will be self driving cars. Volvo's press release notes that Uber will add its own sensors and software to permit pilot-less driving.

No mention was made about the status of the "sensors and software" to be specified at a later date.
Noisebeam and other Phoenix area cyclists know the status, first-hand, from sharing the road with cars using said sensors and software every day.


Ninety5rpm is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 11:12 AM
  #664  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
We are simply part of the vast conspiracy. Only the select can SEE THROUGH facts to see the "truth."

In other breaking news, did you know ONE photo from Apollo 14 *proves* that the moon landings were a hoax?

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 11:12 AM
  #665  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Up to 24,000 cars, a few years from now.

-mr. bill
Yes, a very few years, like 1-2, not a few decades as Luddites seem to presume.
Ninety5rpm is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 04:07 PM
  #666  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,035

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Liked 1,598 Times in 1,079 Posts
Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Noisebeam and other Phoenix area cyclists know the status, first-hand, from sharing the road with cars using said sensors and software every day.
Does that mean you predict the Uber-Volvo's will be using Waymo's proprietary sensors and software that are being being tested in the friendly confines of Phoenix?

Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-21-17 at 05:37 PM.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 05:12 PM
  #667  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Look up the definition of propitiatory.

I don't intend to look for non existent words erroneously claimed to be real by others.

Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
....being tested in the friendly confines of Phoenix?
I know, until someone walks on Kansas, or wherever, the world is flat.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 05:27 PM
  #668  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,035

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Liked 1,598 Times in 1,079 Posts
Originally Posted by mr_bill
Look up the definition of propitiatory.

I don't intend to look for non existent words erroneously claimed to be real by others.
Thanks smart guy for pointing out my typo for "proprietary." I would have thought you were smart enough to figure out what was intended, but perhaps not when an excuse for a snaky response is at hand.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 05:39 PM
  #669  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,035

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Liked 1,598 Times in 1,079 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Note that none of the vehicles bought from Volvo will be self driving cars. Volvo's press release notes that Uber will add its own sensors and software to permit pilot-less driving.

No mention was made about the status of the "sensors and software" to be specified at a later date.
Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Noisebeam and other Phoenix area cyclists know the status, first-hand, from sharing the road with cars using said sensors and software every day.

Speaking of proprietary software and sensors:

“Everything we’re doing right now is about building autonomous vehicles at scale,” Jeff Miller, Uber’s head of automotive alliances, said in an interview. “We don’t know exactly how an autonomous world will look. But we know that we want to be the platform that’s at the center of it, from a ride-sharing standpoint.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/t...ing-cars-.html

Perhaps you should provide Jeff Miller of Uber the use of your crystal ball so that he too will know how what an autonomous world will look like, and that Uber self driving cars will be using Waymo's proprietary software and sensors in just a few years as you seem to already know.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 05:44 PM
  #670  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Waymo, Uber, Kansas, Idaho. They are all the same.

What is truth is that Blue Marble is a lie.

-mr. bill
mr_bill is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 06:03 PM
  #671  
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,207

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Liked 81 Times in 51 Posts
Good news is my new job is dealing with autonomous system testing and tuning.

Tell me what you want in the system
jefnvk is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 07:21 PM
  #672  
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,076

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
Originally Posted by jefnvk
Good news is my new job is dealing with autonomous system testing and tuning.

Tell me what you want in the system
See how close you can make them drive next to bikes without touching them.
tyrion is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 07:50 PM
  #673  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Does that mean you predict the Uber-Volvo's will be using Waymo's proprietary sensors and software that are being being tested in the friendly confines of Phoenix?
No, and that's an excellent point.

I'm very suspicious of the efficacy of Uber's approach; my money is on Lyft/Waymo. These Uber guys are still whining about the complications of human drivers communicating with hand signals and eye contact. smh.

That said, they're obviously determined and there's a good chance they'll figure it out within a couple of years. Who knows? They might end up dealing with Waymo as well. But I think the highly competitive nature of the situation is fueling it all to work out for the best.
Ninety5rpm is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 07:53 PM
  #674  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Speaking of proprietary software and sensors:

“Everything we’re doing right now is about building autonomous vehicles at scale,” Jeff Miller, Uber’s head of automotive alliances, said in an interview. “We don’t know exactly how an autonomous world will look. But we know that we want to be the platform that’s at the center of it, from a ride-sharing standpoint.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/20/t...ing-cars-.html

Perhaps you should provide Jeff Miller of Uber the use of your crystal ball so that he too will know how what an autonomous world will look like, and that Uber self driving cars will be using Waymo's proprietary software and sensors in just a few years as you seem to already know.
As far as I know they're all using standard radar/lidar sensors.

The big differentiator Waymo has is the software.
Ninety5rpm is offline  
Old 11-21-17, 10:26 PM
  #675  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 30,035

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Liked 1,598 Times in 1,079 Posts
Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
As far as I know they're all using standard radar/lidar sensors.

The big differentiator Waymo has is the software.
Perhaps Uber will try to steal Waymo's software designs as they allegedly already have done with various Waymo hardware designs. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...-infringement/
If I ran Volvo, I'd make sure to cash all Uber checks before turning over any vehicles. Guess I'm just not as naive as some of the fan bois and daydreamers who just want to believe in the worst way in Uber's spin on its allegedly successful financial as well as technical and legal shenanigans
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.