Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 12-19-17, 10:25 PM
  #851  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,998

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,548 Times in 1,053 Posts
Originally Posted by jon c.
Amtrack doesn't generally own and maintain the rails. That's the province of the freight companies.
Speaking of rails, this thread is waaayy off the rails of anything to do with bicycling safety or advocacy, and is now all about mindless noodling and speculating about favorite dreams and/or conspiracies.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 12-19-17, 11:08 PM
  #852  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 775

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 87 Posts
yeah I guess it is off track.
rossiny is offline  
Old 12-20-17, 03:33 PM
  #853  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 959 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Well, the underlying general theme of this thread is autonomous vs human driving safety and this train crash tragedy almost certainly caused by human driver error exemplifies the risks associated with having safety depend on human attention.
Ninety5rpm is offline  
Old 12-20-17, 03:50 PM
  #854  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 959 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Speaking of rails, this thread is waaayy off the rails of anything to do with bicycling safety or advocacy, and is now all about mindless noodling and speculating about favorite dreams and/or conspiracies.
No speculating, no dreams, no conspiracies. Just some facts:


"In an accident with strong similarities, an Amtrak train traveling at twice the 50 mph (80 kph) speed limit ran off the rails along a sharp curve in Philadelphia in 2015, killing eight people. Investigators concluded the engineer was distracted by reports over the radio of another train getting hit by a rock."


6abc.com/officials-why-was-train-in-fatal-amtrak-wreck-speeding/2803584/


When a professional train engineer can be distracted so seriously as to allow for unintentionally doubling the speed limit due to something as simple as a radio report about another train being hit by a rock, well that just shows you how and why human motor vehicle operators get so easily distracted and inattentive, and why we, including we cyclists, need autonomous vehicles for the roads to be safer.
Ninety5rpm is offline  
Old 12-21-17, 06:02 PM
  #855  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,530
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2112 Post(s)
Liked 663 Times in 443 Posts
Transportation Network Company (Uber Lyft etc) vehicles are the traffic they are stuck in

-mr. bill

Last edited by mr_bill; 12-21-17 at 06:08 PM.
mr_bill is offline  
Old 12-21-17, 07:29 PM
  #856  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Posts: 3,849

Bikes: 27 speed ORYX with over 39,000Kms on it and another 14,000KMs with a BionX E-Assist on it

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1024 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 49 Posts
Ha, Ha,... that article seems to be a bit biased... IMO... and.. a whole lot behind the times, like some other posters here, that state, absolutely state that driverless cars/vehicles are a daydream for the near future anyways...


Like any fledgling industry there will be some hiccups along the way... It doesn't mean it's a fail... Like some established industry is saying... , Maybe it's them that are actually on the way out and failing...

Last edited by 350htrr; 12-21-17 at 07:41 PM.
350htrr is offline  
Old 12-21-17, 08:00 PM
  #857  
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,076

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
Tax those Ubers to pay for bike paths and subway improvements.
tyrion is offline  
Old 12-24-17, 10:53 PM
  #858  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
As consensus grows that yesterday's tragic train crash in Seattle could have been prevented with autonomous technology (the engineer took the train into a 30 mph curve at 80 mph), I think this signals growing acceptance by the public in general for autonomous technology, which will inevitably spread to cars. It just takes a time. But it's happening.

AMTRAK is funded by our government, and our Congress (House) is to blame for not funding the mandated safety equipment that automatically slows trains. And the reports say that one of the drivers realized that the train was moving far to swiftly as they reached the corner...nothing could be done at that point. My next educated guess is that nothing was really done to acquaint the drivers with the route to the points along the drive.


This was the first run, no practice.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 12-25-17, 12:08 PM
  #859  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 775

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 87 Posts
Too weird

Originally Posted by Rollfast
AMTRAK is funded by our government, and our Congress (House) is to blame for not funding the mandated safety equipment that automatically slows trains. And the reports say that one of the drivers realized that the train was moving far to swiftly as they reached the corner...nothing could be done at that point. My next educated guess is that nothing was really done to acquaint the drivers with the route to the points along the drive.


This was the first run, no practice.
this is just to weird..some thing is amiss. First run??? Would not everything be monitored and check.. I think they crashed it for some reason!!???
rossiny is offline  
Old 12-25-17, 12:33 PM
  #860  
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,998

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,548 Times in 1,053 Posts
Originally Posted by rossiny
this is just to weird..some thing is amiss. First run??? Would not everything be monitored and check.. I think they crashed it for some reason!!???
"They"? Would that be the notorious "automotivist conspiracy" of BF-LCF fame?
Weird is right! Fits right in to this thread.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 12:24 AM
  #861  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 775

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 87 Posts
Tax payer

Either way..conspiracy or not this is tax dollars..namely our tax dollars.. And the injuries and lives ruined.
rossiny is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 06:07 AM
  #862  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by rossiny
this is just to weird..some thing is amiss. First run??? Would not everything be monitored and check.. I think they crashed it for some reason!!???

No, the HOUSE didn't allocate funding to meet the federal mandate for equipment that would automatically slow the train down...so the crew had no idea what they were going in to at the time as the route was also BRAND NEW. built to bypass the old line that ran by the ocean a lot.


Same reason for that matter that the train that crashed a couple years ago on the east coast did.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 10:17 AM
  #863  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 775

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 87 Posts
Never mind... My point is more of a logical question.. "If" this was the "maiden" voyage, wouldn't it be all official and every thing monitored by humans?? Like checking tracks, engine , brakes, speed, every one being on board and attentive.? Am I missing something here?
rossiny is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 10:20 AM
  #864  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 775

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 87 Posts
Conspiracy

I'm sticking to my theory, some thing does not ring true with this accident and even if the investigation finds out what, they are going to bury it...
rossiny is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 10:24 AM
  #865  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 775

Bikes: Trek 970, Bianchi Volpe,Casati

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 87 Posts
Original question

No I do not believe self-driving cars will make it more safe for cyclist,, it will just create more regulations for cyclist and possibly even Banning cyclist from roads, to only marked bike paths,meaning paths only for bikes and no roads that have cars. So in other words any road that has cars on them it would be illegal for bikes to travel on them. Also super strick rules on kids in the street etc. Laws in place to minimize liability issues in case of accidents or injuries or death caused by self driving car manufacturers.

Last edited by rossiny; 12-26-17 at 10:33 AM.
rossiny is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 03:47 PM
  #866  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Originally Posted by rossiny
Never mind... My point is more of a logical question.. "If" this was the "maiden" voyage, wouldn't it be all official and every thing monitored by humans?? Like checking tracks, engine , brakes, speed, every one being on board and attentive.? Am I missing something here?

Yes you are, if they had run the train without passengers at 80 mph on a 30 mph rated curve it would still be in the middle of a busy interstate.


90% of the problem was created by humans. It was at multiple levels. The other 10% is physical laws and those were created at the moment of the universe's creation.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 04:04 PM
  #867  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
You can't fix stupid, that's a do it yourself project.


And my mom's Toyota Avalon she just got after a drive pulled in front of her and totaled her Buick was a sweet ride. Dark blue with 'race' wheels, nice gauges, a huge radio display and heated seats. Thankfully the roads were clear enough after the snow to make the pickup and drive back possible or I wouldn't have just finished my leftover ham


Since cruise control is warned against on all the electronic traffic signs, how would this fare any better? My mom has over 55 years of driving experience and could fix her father's Class 8 cattle truck to boot, she could fix my cars as well as my dad could back then.


Here is the tie-in...


Today's roads were designed according to whatever standards they had then and weren't always adequate. Wild animals don't understand anything about that, they have to get places and eat, raise offspring, avoid predators. Mother Nature doesn't care, she does her own thing.


It's great to have dreams. Don't feel that others are simply against you, it's not personal, there are a zillion other things to consider.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 12-26-17, 05:26 PM
  #868  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Posts: 3,849

Bikes: 27 speed ORYX with over 39,000Kms on it and another 14,000KMs with a BionX E-Assist on it

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1024 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 49 Posts
I think its practically a given, autonomous vehicles will be safer than human driven ones... Even safer than human driven cars, ones driven by professional racecar drivers... EVENTUALLY...

They are probably already as safe as the average un-attentive driver is today...

Last edited by 350htrr; 12-27-17 at 12:14 PM. Reason: add stuff
350htrr is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 05:40 AM
  #869  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by 350htrr
I think its practically a given, autonomous vehicles will be safer than human driven ones... Even safer than human driven cars, ones driven by professional racecar drivers... EVENTUALLY...
Professional race drivers are trained to drive high performance cars on impractically high performance tires (imagine the hassle if normal road tires were only good for a hundred miles or so per set) on carefully maintained tracks. They often call races due to rain, and I've never heard of a regular track race being run with ice on the track. Even then these guys each average a serious wreck every few thousand miles.

OTR truckers, OTOH, don't last very long in the business if they don't develop a sixth sense of what traffic is doing ahead. Use one with >20 years of experience in all climates as the standard, and I'll be a lot more willing to trust the software that can keep up.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 07:57 AM
  #870  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13659 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Professional race drivers are trained to drive high performance cars on impractically high performance tires (imagine the hassle if normal road tires were only good for a hundred miles or so per set) on carefully maintained tracks. They often call races due to rain, and I've never heard of a regular track race being run with ice on the track. Even then these guys each average a serious wreck every few thousand miles.

OTR truckers, OTOH, don't last very long in the business if they don't develop a sixth sense of what traffic is doing ahead. Use one with >20 years of experience in all climates as the standard, and I'll be a lot more willing to trust the software that can keep up.
Nice standard... now are you also going to hold all human drivers to the same standard? If not, then the software only has to be a bit better than your average human driver to show a reduced collision rate.
genec is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 08:41 AM
  #871  
Senior Member
 
KD5NRH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697

Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by genec
Nice standard... now are you also going to hold all human drivers to the same standard? If not, then the software only has to be a bit better than your average human driver to show a reduced collision rate.
If you start forcing automatic control before it's at least as good as a fairly common type of driver, you're going to increase the collision rate for that type and better; effectively penalizing them for having the skills and mindset to be safer drivers than the computer.
KD5NRH is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 09:31 AM
  #872  
genec
 
genec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079

Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13659 Post(s)
Liked 4,532 Times in 3,158 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH
If you start forcing automatic control before it's at least as good as a fairly common type of driver, you're going to increase the collision rate for that type and better; effectively penalizing them for having the skills and mindset to be safer drivers than the computer.
The key word there is "force."
genec is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 11:38 AM
  #873  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Canada, PG BC
Posts: 3,849

Bikes: 27 speed ORYX with over 39,000Kms on it and another 14,000KMs with a BionX E-Assist on it

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1024 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Professional race drivers are trained to drive high performance cars on impractically high performance tires (imagine the hassle if normal road tires were only good for a hundred miles or so per set) on carefully maintained tracks. They often call races due to rain, and I've never heard of a regular track race being run with ice on the track. Even then these guys each average a serious wreck every few thousand miles.

OTR truckers, OTOH, don't last very long in the business if they don't develop a sixth sense of what traffic is doing ahead. Use one with >20 years of experience in all climates as the standard, and I'll be a lot more willing to trust the software that can keep up.
Don't really understand what you are saying, are you saying racecar drivers aren't better drivers than the average Joe...?

Are you saying you need a sixth sense to be a good driver and a computer will not have that...?
350htrr is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 01:01 PM
  #874  
Senior Member
 
tyrion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,076

Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet

Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times in 972 Posts
Originally Posted by KD5NRH
If you start forcing automatic control before it's at least as good as a fairly common type of driver, you're going to increase the collision rate for that type and better; effectively penalizing them for having the skills and mindset to be safer drivers than the computer.
It won't be feasible to force automatic control for decades.
tyrion is offline  
Old 12-29-17, 02:42 PM
  #875  
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 959 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by tyrion
It won't be feasible to force automatic control for decades.
If ever. The legal right to drive your own car on public roads has over 100 years of precedent - that will be tough to overcome.

But what is likely to happen is more stringent training and licensing requirements - to bring human driving up to par with AVs in terms of safety.

It's all good.
Ninety5rpm is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.