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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 01-02-18, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
You're funny and apparently delirious.

Just what in the past would be the precedent for such an action?

A move as such would be political suicide. Some think the gun lobby has Congress by the knads, just wait until the masses feel their vehicles would be taken from them. You ain't seen nothing yet.

More than 450k deaths a year from smoking and it's still a legal product. You really think the 45k deaths a year from autos will have an effect?

Self driving vehicles are coming, They will not take over the automotive world.
I tend to agree... not likely to happen... However, I do suspect that if AVs prove safer than humans, insurance companies are going to charge a premium for human driven cars. Thus, the market may decide.
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Old 01-02-18, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Lack of control is obviously not why anyone would want one. But it's not about wanting one to own. It's about wanting a cheaper ride.

The question to ponder is this:
  • Do you want a Lyft/Uber human-driven ride for $12? Or an AV ride for $3?
It will cost more than $3 just to get it to your address.
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Old 01-02-18, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
You're funny and apparently delirious.

Just what in the past would be the precedent for such an action?

A move as such would be political suicide. Some think the gun lobby has Congress by the knads, just wait until the masses feel their vehicles would be taken from them. You ain't seen nothing yet.

More than 450k deaths a year from smoking and it's still a legal product. You really think the 45k deaths a year from autos will have an effect?

Self driving vehicles are coming, They will not take over the automotive world.
No, they won't take over the world of transportation... They will be given it. If I could basically go anywhere I want, efficiently... for lets say $2,000 per year and it now costs me $7,000 per year of "owning" my car, guess what. That car is gone.

Last edited by 350htrr; 01-02-18 at 05:47 PM.
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Old 01-02-18, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Fair enough, but those costs will be much lower, because:
  • Only one car per X families instead of Y cars per family.
  • Insurance will be far lower.
  • Cost reductions due to consolidation.
  • Great parking cost reductions.
Again, completely conjured guesswork made up of whole cloth.

Why will insurance rates be lower? Sez who?

What
costs would be reduced per consolidation?

Where
are these vehicles going to be parked at low cost when not in use? In their customers' garages? On the urban streets?

How does more than one member of a family travel at the same time or during overlapping periods of time as someone else in the family to different destinations, at the same time as a great number of his neighbors to multiple destinations such as rush hour or school starting times unless there are enough vehicles to service the maximum passenger load? If everybody thought it was a great idea to wait for vehicle to show up to be jammed in with strangers, bus service would do be far more popular.
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Old 01-02-18, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
It will cost more than $3 just to get it to your address.
There are human-driven Ubers and Lyfts normally lurking, inactive, blocks and seconds from my house at all times. The cost of a lurking self-driving one will be negligible; there will be many more of them.

I really believe you'll be able to order a car (for a given destination), put on your shoes and/or jacket, and walk out to the end of your driveway, and wait no more than a 30 seconds for a car to arrive, if it is not already there.

If you're out in the boonies the wait will generally be longer, but also probably not more than a few minutes. In really remote places you'll have to order in advance more often.
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Old 01-02-18, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Again, completely conjured guesswork made up of whole cloth.

Why will insurance rates be lower? Sez who?

What
costs would be reduced per consolidation?

Where
are these vehicles going to be parked at low cost when not in use? In their customers' garages? On the urban streets?

How does more than one member of a family travel at the same time or during overlapping periods of time as someone else in the family to different destinations, at the same time as a great number of his neighbors to multiple destinations such as rush hour or school starting times unless there are enough vehicles to service the maximum passenger load? If everybody thought it was a great idea to wait for vehicle to show up to be jammed in with strangers, bus service would do be far more popular.
Insurance will be much lower because probability of crash will be much lower. Duh. That's the whole point of AVs.
Consolidation is a well-known cost saving measure. Use your imagination.
They will probably be parked in leased unused garages. Cheaply.

Last edited by Ninety5rpm; 01-02-18 at 06:02 PM. Reason: correction of wording
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Old 01-02-18, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
No, they won't take over the world of transportation... They will be given it. If I could basically go anywhere I want, efficiently... for lets say $2,000 per year and it now costs me $7,000 per year of "owning" my car, guess what. That car is gone.
If that were the driving force for the masses, any new vehicle over the base model would be a hard sell.
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Old 01-02-18, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Insurance will be much lower because probability of crash will be much lower. Duh. That's the whole point of AVs.
Consolidation is a well-known cost saving measure. Use your imagination.
They will probably be parked in leased unused garages. Cheaply.
Completely false. What will they plug them into?
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Old 01-02-18, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
There are human-driven Ubers and Lyfts normally lurking, inactive, blocks and seconds from my house at all times. The cost of a lurking self-driving one will be negligible; there will be many more of them.

I really believe you'll be able to order a car (for a given destination), put on your shoes and/or jacket, and walk out to the end of your driveway, and wait no more than a 30 seconds for a car to arrive, if it is not already there.

If you're out in the boonies the wait will generally be longer, but also probably not more than a few minutes. In really remote places you'll have to order in advance more often.
Not hardly, the cost to circle your neighborhood will be as much or more than the in use cost.
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Old 01-02-18, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
If that were the driving force for the masses, any new vehicle over the base model would be a hard sell.
The driving force for the masses is keeping up with the Jones's and efficiency, (not waiting for a bus, and bus schedules)... Once people start to switch it will happen faster than one would think. JMO
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Old 01-02-18, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
Not hardly, the cost to circle your neighborhood will be as much or more than the in use cost.
Why would they be circling? Ubers and Lyfts don't circle. They park and wait.
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Old 01-02-18, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
Completely false. What will they plug them into?
Retrofitted outlets.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
What about garaging costs, insurance, tire wear, and other car-owning costs that vanish when you sell your beater?
Garaging costs? The driveway still comes with the house whether there's a car in it or not.
Insurance? If I don't have my own liability policy, I have to pay a daily fee to rent, and 4 days of that is pretty close to what I pay for a month of minimum liability plus U/UMC on my own car.
Tire wear? I pay attention to what tires a car will need when I'm looking for a new beater. The ones on my Saturn cost $163 for a set of four with mounting, balancing and tax.
Sell my beater? I drive them until the wheels fall off (three times, literally, and one of those I walked to a store, got a new set of studs and lug nuts, put the wheel back on and drove it another ~50k miles - after replacing all the other studs at the next opportunity) and then sell them for scrap value, which is usually a fair chunk of what I paid to start with. Taco theory again; I buy it assuming it'll just be a turd to be flushed when I'm done with it.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant
Completely false. What will they plug them into?
Ah...well you are assuming they will all be electric. They should be, but likely won't be, at first. That is about the only downside I see to this. The continued proliferation of internal combustion technology for at least a couple more development cycles.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
No, they won't take over the world of transportation... They will be given it. If I could basically go anywhere I want, efficiently... for lets say $2,000 per year and it now costs me $7,000 per year of "owning" my car, guess what.
Doesn't take a guess; it's blindingly obvious that you're a complete imbecile who shouldn't be allowed out of the house without competent adult supervision if you really believe it has to cost $7,000 a year to own a car. Including the purchase cost of each, my last two cars got me through more than four years on less than that.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Garaging costs? The driveway still comes with the house whether there's a car in it or not.
Insurance? If I don't have my own liability policy, I have to pay a daily fee to rent, and 4 days of that is pretty close to what I pay for a month of minimum liability plus U/UMC on my own car.
Tire wear? I pay attention to what tires a car will need when I'm looking for a new beater. The ones on my Saturn cost $163 for a set of four with mounting, balancing and tax.
Sell my beater? I drive them until the wheels fall off (three times, literally, and one of those I walked to a store, got a new set of studs and lug nuts, put the wheel back on and drove it another ~50k miles - after replacing all the other studs at the next opportunity) and then sell them for scrap value, which is usually a fair chunk of what I paid to start with. Taco theory again; I buy it assuming it'll just be a turd to be flushed when I'm done with it.
It's not about you! I've been holding this in for weeks. Seriously. All you ever talk about is your usage profile. Do you have kids? Grandkids? After you (collective you) have trashed the planet and gone off to the other side of the mortal coil have you given any thought to how much of a mess you are leaving for your kids and grandkids? Can't we collectively suffer a little inconvenience for the sake of those yet to enjoy this place? Criminy.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
How does more than one member of a family travel at the same time or during overlapping periods of time as someone else in the family to different destinations, at the same time as a great number of his neighbors to multiple destinations such as rush hour or school starting times unless there are enough vehicles to service the maximum passenger load? If everybody thought it was a great idea to wait for vehicle to show up to be jammed in with strangers, bus service would do be far more popular.
This is the problem with all the "distributed load" based claims; there are already very solid arguments for redistributing the rush hour load by altering "normal working hours" and it hasn't happened. I remember Dallas even floating the idea of a tax credit for companies that didn't have shift changes from 7-9AM or 4-6PM on weekdays specifically to try to cut some rush hour load, and yet I never heard of a company willing to take them up on it. (Partly because it was to be an all-or-nothing deal; you couldn't just shuffle the shop shifts and still have the office staff coming in 8-5.) As long as 80+% of people have to travel between 7-9AM you have to have the capacity to haul all of those to their destinations at the same time.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KD5NRH
Doesn't take a guess; it's blindingly obvious that you're a complete imbecile who shouldn't be allowed out of the house without competent adult supervision if you really believe it has to cost $7,000 a year to own a car. Including the purchase cost of each, my last two cars got me through more than four years on less than that.
Really, Ouch, don't bend me over, I already have one and don't need a new one... It's just not cool dude... NOT cool AT ALL...

Last edited by 350htrr; 01-02-18 at 08:05 PM. Reason: add stuff
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Old 01-02-18, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
It's not about you! I've been holding this in for weeks. Seriously. All you ever talk about is your usage profile. Do you have kids? Grandkids?
Yes, and I consider it far more important that they be free to live their lives as they see fit than to be forced into crime-heavy, polluted cities with pathetic quality of life to serve your feelz-before-realz agenda.

Go back to holding it in, snowflake. All you ever talk about is your agenda based on your pipe dream. My experience is real.
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Old 01-02-18, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
I also have no faith in industry at large, and the ability of business in general to f*** up technology for the sake of profit.
Or just because they're lazy; even with crowdsourced corrections, Waze still regularly decides I must be on a parallel road fifty yards or more away, then makes matters worse by popping back and forth between that and he corret road randomly. What happens when a GPS-dependent automated car is cruising down the freeway and suddenly glitches into thinking it's almost at the 4-way stop on the access road nearby?
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Old 01-02-18, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
If I could basically go anywhere I want, efficiently... for lets say $2,000 per year
Why say $2000 per year? Since all the number crunching by the self driving car proselytizers on this thread is based on PR gossip, whole cloth and wishful thinking, why not say $50 per year, tops! Makes the alleged costs "saving" sound even better.
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Old 01-02-18, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Why say $2000 per year? Since all the number crunching by the self driving car proselytizers on this thread is based on PR gossip, whole cloth and wishful thinking, why not say $50 per year, tops! Makes the alleged costs "saving" sound even better.
Because I live in the real world, bus fares would "probably" cost me close to $600 a year to travel where I would want to go, which could work... Except for the time, effort, scheduling, thus a car works better for me even at $7,000 a year... and... I can afford it...
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Old 01-02-18, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
Because I live in the real world, bus fares would "probably" cost me close to $600 a year to travel where I would want to go, which could work... Except for the time, effort, scheduling, thus a car works better for me even at $7,000 a year... and... I can afford it...
Ya mean you can order a public transit vehicle in your area to travel anytime to wherever you would want to go, put on your shoes and/or jacket, and walk out to the end of your driveway, and wait no more than a 30 seconds for it to arrive, if it is not already there? If you're out in the boonies the wait will generally be longer, but also probably not more than a few minutes. All for $600 a year? That is what Ninety is promising with his sure-fire scheme of imminent fielding of self driving car fleet, though not for $600/year; don't know yet what cost per year or per mile he has dreamed up for this service. Whatever it is, I'm sure it will be head spinningly low balled.
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Old 01-02-18, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by 350htrr
No, they won't take over the world of transportation... They will be given it. If I could basically go anywhere I want, efficiently... for lets say $2,000 per year and it now costs me $7,000 per year of "owning" my car, guess what. That car is gone.
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Ya mean you can order a public transit vehicle in your area to travel anytime to wherever you would want to go, put on your shoes and/or jacket, and walk out to the end of your driveway, and wait no more than a 30 seconds for it to arrive, if it is not already there? If you're out in the boonies the wait will generally be longer, but also probably not more than a few minutes. All for $600 a year? That is what Ninety is promising with his sure-fire scheme of imminent fielding of self driving car fleet, though not for $600/year; don't know yet what cost per year or per mile he has dreamed up for this service. Whatever it is, I'm sure it will be head spinningly low balled.
OOoopps, that $600 a year came from bus fares only, with all the down sides I still wouldn't get rid of my car... It was, if for $2,000 a year, door to door transport is when I would give up the car...

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Old 01-02-18, 11:24 PM
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Hmmm....

I think it would just give “vehicle inhabitants”
Another reason to not blame themselves.........


“The car did it”. I had no control.......
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