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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

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Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?

Old 01-13-18, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by prathmann
Not much of a test since I doubt that you can identify any destination that is "physically and economically accessible to every driver in the country." Since there are no such destinations the proposed self-driving vehicle doesn't actually have to move anyone anywhere to pass the test.
Sure, dreams of the existence of ready for prime time self driving cars are perfect for the pedant who thinks the difference between pipe dreams, wishful thinking and reality can be explained away with obtuseness.
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Old 01-13-18, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Still waiting for a sighting of Type 5 self driving motor vehicle on the road capable of safely picking up, transporting and delivering paying passengers/owners to/from any destination that is already physically and economically accessible to every driver in the country, without the aid of a "non driving" assistant overseeing the operation.

Still unimpressed by Press Releases and Public Relations Flackery about tests and prototypes, especially when the results/progress of the software and hardware tests are closely held secrets. Still not bamboozled by PR over the amounts of money raised or spent on the promise of the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
WOW dude,

You sound like someone in the 1,800's who knows that there was "telephones" like the ones that kids use today (two cans and a string) in the 1,600's and says who cares that now in 1,875 one can make a transatlantic phone call... "It will never work for the average person" you say... and , Guess what, there are more phones today than there is people in the world...


You may think (seem to think) , that that time line is on your side but not at the speed/the way technology is moving forwards today. Within a few years these AV cars/vehicle will be everywhere in the world...
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Old 01-14-18, 06:02 AM
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I really can't comment on AV because have not read up enough to comment. What worries me is that humans just can't get over cars. The damage that cars have done to our environment is mind boggling and would continue AV or human driven regardless.. Go to an older European city and look at the congestion and pollution
..mind boggling...we love us some cars..
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Old 01-14-18, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
BOOM! LEVEL 4 GM ROLLOUT NEXT YEAR!!!

After Waymo Level 4 rollout in Phoenix later THIS YEAR!!!

QUOTE:


Starting next year, General Motors will begin deploying a fleet of up to 2,500 self-driving cars that will have no steering wheel or pedals, making them the first true robo-taxis to hit the streets.
...
Waymo expects to begin a driverless ride-hailing service in Phoenix later this year using modified versions of Chrysler Pacific minivans. Although there will be no safety engineer in the driver’s seat, the minivans will still have a steering wheel, accelerator, and brake pedals.

GM, by contrast, won’t launch its ride-hailing service until 2019 but it will use purpose-built autonomous Chevrolet Bolt electric vehicles (called Cruise AVs) that will be mass-produced at a factory in Michigan. Cruise Automation founder Kyle Vogt said 20 years from now, people will look back on these first driverless taxis as a milestone in automotive history.


FORBES: Look, Ma, No Steering Wheel Or Pedals In GM's Robo-Taxi, Coming In 2019
At least HONDA builds tiny cars for huge people...RE: the blue '72 Duster 340 from a few pages back. I want to DRIVE again before I die.
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Old 01-17-18, 06:29 AM
  #1055  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Still waiting for a sighting of Type 5 self driving motor vehicle on the road capable of safely picking up, transporting and delivering paying passengers/owners to/from any destination that is already physically and economically accessible to every driver in the country, without the aid of a "non driving" assistant overseeing the operation.

Still unimpressed by Press Releases and Public Relations Flackery about tests and prototypes, especially when the results/progress of the software and hardware tests are closely held secrets. Still not bamboozled by PR over the amounts of money raised or spent on the promise of the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
I agree.

Someone show me some dashcam video of this and I'll gladly eat crow.
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Old 01-17-18, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by SHBR
I agree.

Someone show me some dashcam video of this and I'll gladly eat crow.
How about this...
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Old 01-17-18, 10:07 AM
  #1057  
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Originally Posted by genec
Not impressed as this PR video does not show a ready for prime time Level 5 self driving vehicle, which is the only kind of autonomous self driving car that will really matter in the real world of transportation.

Let us know when this test vehicle is ready to leave its sunny good weather suburban enclave with its pre-programmed slow speed routes, and pick up and safely transport any passenger on any highway in the country to any destination in the country.

Ya know, operate safely on the various streets, roads, highways/destinations, in variable/unpredictable traffic and weather conditions that can be driven in a conventional motor vehicle - TODAY by a human driver to transport himself, passengers and cargo.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lained-feature
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Old 01-17-18, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Not impressed as this PR video does not show a ready for prime time Level 5 self driving vehicle, which is the only kind of autonomous self driving car that will really matter in the real world of transportation.

Let us know when this test vehicle is ready to leave its sunny good weather suburban enclave with its pre-programmed slow speed routes, and pick up and safely transport any passenger on any highway in the country to any destination in the country.

Ya know, operate safely on the various streets, roads, highways/destinations, in variable/unpredictable traffic and weather conditions that can be driven in a conventional motor vehicle - TODAY by a human driver to transport himself, passengers and cargo.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...lained-feature
A true Level 5 can go anywhere. Technically, if a car is geofenced, it's Level 4. But, robotaxis geofenced to a given metropolitan area, that are otherwise Level 5, will be able to handle over 90% of daily motor trips, and will radically change the real world of transportation.

The geofenced areas will start small in size and number (Phoenix, Pittsburgh, San Francisco), but will grow from there in both size and number.

No definitive dashcam video yet, but the "at least 10 years away" predictions are way off. I believe I will have my first driverless ride before 2020.

That said, here's a dashcam video from a GM/Cruise Chevy Bolt in San Francisco from almost a year ago.

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Old 01-17-18, 11:16 AM
  #1059  
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Apparently, what we really need is helmet cam video from a cyclist encountering a self driving car, and living to talk about it.
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Old 01-17-18, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
But, robotaxis geofenced to a given metropolitan area, that are otherwise Level 5, will be able to handle over 90% of daily motor trips, and will radically change the real world of transportation.

The geofenced areas will start small in size and number (Phoenix, Pittsburgh, San Francisco), but will grow from there in both size and number.

No definitive dashcam video yet, but the "at least 10 years away" predictions are way off. I believe I will have my first driverless ride before 2020.
Credible source for these fascinating factoids/predictions?
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Old 01-17-18, 11:32 AM
  #1061  
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I have to chuckle at this geofencing thing... the shopping carts at my local grocer are geofenced. You cannot leave the lot with them... the wheels lock up.
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Old 01-17-18, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
Apparently, what we really need is helmet cam video from a cyclist encountering a self driving car, and living to talk about it.
Encountering a limited use test vehicle being tested on a well scripted specially selected slow speed route is not the world shaking event that you and other dreamers seem to be swooning over.

Read the definition for a Level 5 autonomous self driving car again.
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Old 01-17-18, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Encountering a limited use test vehicle being tested on a well scripted specially selected slow speed route is not the world shaking event that you and other dreamers seem to be swooning over.

Read the definition for a Level 5 autonomous self driving car again.
What would pass your "test," exactly? And keep in mind that taxis often do not leave their city of service... Oh it happens, but it usually becomes some sort of hip news story when it does.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/..._n_851993.html
The question, of course, is why. Why, when a non-stop flight from NYC to LA is $1,000 for two adults, take a $5,000 cab ride across country?
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Old 01-17-18, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Credible source for these fascinating factoids/predictions?
Well, over 80% of the American population lives in metropolitan areas.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/...lly-mean/1589/

So once every metro area has geocaged AV services, they will be able to handle all the trips for those Americans.

Surely there will be expansion beyond the metro areas - that will get us over the 90%, sooner or later. The only question is how soon. 2022 or 2023?
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Old 01-17-18, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Well, over 80% of the American population lives in metropolitan areas.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/...lly-mean/1589/

So once every metro area has geocaged AV services, they will be able to handle all the trips for those Americans.

Surely there will be expansion beyond the metro areas - that will get us over the 90%, sooner or later. The only question is how soon. 2022 or 2023?
And of course for the rest of America...
The driverless tractors are programmable via tablet, and offer the possibility of autonomous seeding, planting and tillage — with all the obstacle detection, radar, cameras and other goodies you’d expect from any self-respecting autonomous vehicle. “It allows an operator to plan paths for fields, adjust paths for different implement widths, as well as manage multiple tractors running multiple operations in separate fields or in in tandem in the same field,” Nielsen said.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-t...ving-tractors/
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Old 01-17-18, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
I have to chuckle at this geofencing thing... the shopping carts at my local grocer are geofenced. You cannot leave the lot with them... the wheels lock up.
It just means initially you'll be able to take a ride from San Francisco to Bodega Bay, Santa Rosa, Geyserville, Calistoga Napa, Fairfield, Pleasanton and San Jose and Half Moon Bay, but maybe not to Clearlake, Sacramento or Monterey.

Although... I expect the ranges to expand rapidly and ultimately to be restricted more by battery range than "locale knowledge". After all, when a car is given a destination it can download all necessary knowledge about driving there before it begins.

It's just that the logistics of shorter trips are easier to manage. Luckily the vast majority of trips are of the shorter variety.
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Old 01-17-18, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by genec
What would pass your "test," exactly?
Vehicles capable of being legally operated at nothing less than Level 5 _ Full Automation. System capability:The driverless car can operate on any road and in any conditions a human driver could negotiate; passenger involvement: entering a destination and getting in and out of the vehicle.



That is the objective: anything less capable will be an unmitigated financial disaster for the speculators betting on gains and profits from their investments in producing, selling and/or owning driver less autonomous cars.
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Old 01-17-18, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
Well, over 80% of the American population lives in metropolitan areas.
https://www.citylab.com/equity/2012/...lly-mean/1589/

So once every metro area has geocaged AV services, they will be able to handle all the trips for those Americans.

Surely there will be expansion beyond the metro areas - that will get us over the 90%, sooner or later. The only question is how soon. 2022 or 2023?
IOW you have no source other than your own crystal ball for your conjured transportation handling capabilities predictions such as "robotaxis geofenced to a given metropolitan area, that are otherwise Level 5, will be able to handle over 90% of daily motor trips, and will radically change the real world of transportation.

The geofenced areas will start small in size and number (Phoenix, Pittsburgh, San Francisco), but will grow from there in both size and number.

No definitive dashcam video yet, but the "at least 10 years away" predictions are way off. I believe I will have my first driverless ride before 2020."
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Old 01-17-18, 12:04 PM
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AARP has boarded the AV bandwagon.

Autonomous vehicles could be great for seniors, says AARP

From the article:

Last edited by Ninety5rpm; 01-17-18 at 12:07 PM. Reason: fix links
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Old 01-17-18, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
IOW you have no source other than your own crystal ball for your conjured transportation handling capabilities predictions such as "robotaxis geofenced to a given metropolitan area, that are otherwise Level 5, will be able to handle over 90% of daily motor trips, and will radically change the real world of transportation.

The geofenced areas will start small in size and number (Phoenix, Pittsburgh, San Francisco), but will grow from there in both size and number.

No definitive dashcam video yet, but the "at least 10 years away" predictions are way off. I believe I will have my first driverless ride before 2020."
Of course. I'm sad for you that all this is not as obvious to you as it is to me.
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Old 01-17-18, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm
A cure for dementia, cancer, arthritis and/or heart disease would be great for seniors too, as well as all of society. Who wouldn't get on the bandwagon, eh? Lots of money being spent on those issues too!
Do you also have a predicted date that You Believe for the obvious solution of those problems?
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Old 01-17-18, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
A cure for dementia, cancer, arthritis and/or heart disease would be great for seniors too, as well as all of society. Who wouldn't get on the bandwagon, eh? Lots of money being spent on those issues too!
Do you also have a predicted date that You Believe for the obvious solution of those problems?
No, solutions for those issues are not nearly as obvious as how AV technology will solve the driving difficulty issues for seniors.

That said, we might have something for preventing dementia...

A high-salt diet produces dementia in mice
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Old 01-17-18, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Vehicles capable of being legally operated at nothing less than Level 5 _ Full Automation. System capability:The driverless car can operate on any road and in any conditions a human driver could negotiate; passenger involvement: entering a destination and getting in and out of the vehicle.



That is the objective: anything less capable will be an unmitigated financial disaster for the speculators betting on gains and profits from their investments in producing, selling and/or owning driver less autonomous cars.
Interesting, the first hurdle in your "test" require that the laws of all 50 states be revised.

AVs are only legal in a few states, and amoung those states, even fewer permit operation without a safety driver... so technology may NOT be the gating item here.
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Old 01-17-18, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Still waiting for a sighting of Type 5 self driving motor vehicle on the road capable of safely picking up, transporting and delivering paying passengers/owners to/from any destination that is already physically and economically accessible to every driver in the country, without the aid of a "non driving" assistant overseeing the operation.

Still unimpressed by Press Releases and Public Relations Flackery about tests and prototypes, especially when the results/progress of the software and hardware tests are closely held secrets. Still not bamboozled by PR over the amounts of money raised or spent on the promise of the pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
I always love the "its pointless until it can do it perfectly without any exceptions" argument, as if even humans are capable of that.

A true level 5 car would be able to run the Dakar Rally unaided, as that is something humans can do. It could take off across the Sahara with nothing more than a waypoint, and figure out how to get there with no roads and no human aid. I doubt many licensed drivers in America could do either of those, but that is what a level 5 car is. If you are waiting for that, you are setting the bar too high, presumably so that you will always be right.

Level 4 is where we need the technology: it can do anything a human can do on the road, and lacks the need for any human intervention beyond plugging in a destination. Hate to break it to you, the technology is there, even if not quite to production yet. Mockup cities for autonomous testing are being built in large numbers, and are being utilized. Driverless buses are starting in Ann Arbor this spring, connecting University of Michigan campuses but running on regular roads.

https://mcity.umich.edu/mcity-driver...esting-begins/
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Old 01-17-18, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by genec
Interesting, the first hurdle in your "test" require that the laws of all 50 states be revised.
True
Originally Posted by genec
AVs are only legal in a few states, and amoung those states, even fewer permit operation without a safety driver... so technology may NOT be the gating item here.
Legality is only one of the issues that the paid and unpaid cheerleaders choose to ignore.
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