Would a self driving car world make it safe for cyclists?
06-15-17, 02:31 PM
#176
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,757
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 624 Times
in
451 Posts
Mine doesn't. Neither does my wife's. When I did hardware support I would routinely come across PC's and laptops with 3% CPU availability with 13 open applications running (not running). Don't do that.
06-15-17, 02:39 PM
#177
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5,757
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2326 Post(s)
Liked 624 Times
in
451 Posts
40 million Americans doubt the moon landings ever occurred, out of them 20 million deny they ever did. How could there be such a level of delusion in a modern western society? I see the same blind belief in driverless technology. A blind, almost religious belief, that these technologies can save us from the diminishing returns of technologies. Any rational discussion on it is shouted down and those skeptical are treated like hairy monks in caves. 
06-15-17, 03:33 PM
#179
Senior Member
I feel this topic has gone the way of most in our society today.
1/3 have already formed a hard opinion pro Autonomous vehicles, 1/3 against. No matter what is said those 2/3s are set on there opinions.
1/3 have already formed a hard opinion pro Autonomous vehicles, 1/3 against. No matter what is said those 2/3s are set on there opinions.
06-15-17, 04:19 PM
#180
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times
in
985 Posts
If progress of a practical application of the current technology is measured by how much money is spent on it, progress is indeed being made on driverless cars being fielded onto the nation's highways. Otherwise, not so much.
06-15-17, 04:55 PM
#181
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,077
Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,009 Times
in
972 Posts
Money fuels progress but isn't a valid measure of it. The real world application of technology (millions of miles logged by self driving cars, etc.) is a better yardstick.
06-15-17, 07:08 PM
#182
Senior Member
https://www.driverless-future.com/?page_id=774
Last edited by 350htrr; 06-15-17 at 07:24 PM.
06-15-17, 07:13 PM
#183
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
Anyway, back on topic.
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Halt
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Stop | Observer
Excerpts...
Think about it: Every driver makes hundreds of daily driving decisions that, strictly speaking, break driving laws (for example, crossing the yellow line to pull around a double-parked vehicle). It all works out fine because of something called “human judgment.” But what company is going to program its driverless cars to break the law? And what regulators will approve that product, knowing that it has been programmed to break the law?
Will insurance policies for driverless cars cover the car itself? Or will they cover the owner of the vehicle? Or perhaps the technology company that controls the car’s routes? Who will be responsible if there is an accident? ...
It’s clear that Uber and some of the other companies are professional carnival barkers engaged in an amazingly brash self-driving con. The media eats this stuff up. Left out of the reportage often are some of the other companies developing these technologies, that are a bit more honest about the prospects for success. Bradley Stertz, corporate communications manager for Audi, says a fully automated vehicle with no driver is still 20 or 30 years away. “To have the car understand every single possibility is a massive challenge,” he says.
Government regulators at both the federal and state levels have been rightly insisting that the companies go slow with their development. By now it should be apparent to all that Silicon Valley, like Wall Street banksters and gamblers, has no scruples or principles about rolling the dice with the public’s welfare. Whether the company is Airbnb, or Uber, with its pirate mentality of breaking laws and evading taxes, or Google, stashing its mountain of cash in offshore, overseas tax havens, the Silicon Way is to “just do it”—and apologize later.
As a step toward fully autonomous self-driving vehicles, some of these companies are hoping to incorporate individual components into existing cars. Increasingly some of the luxury autos will have semi-autonomous features that allow the vehicle to accelerate, brake and steer a course with limited driver interaction. But that’s still a long way, fortunately, from a fully autonomous vehicle.
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Halt
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Stop | Observer
Excerpts...
Think about it: Every driver makes hundreds of daily driving decisions that, strictly speaking, break driving laws (for example, crossing the yellow line to pull around a double-parked vehicle). It all works out fine because of something called “human judgment.” But what company is going to program its driverless cars to break the law? And what regulators will approve that product, knowing that it has been programmed to break the law?
Will insurance policies for driverless cars cover the car itself? Or will they cover the owner of the vehicle? Or perhaps the technology company that controls the car’s routes? Who will be responsible if there is an accident? ...
It’s clear that Uber and some of the other companies are professional carnival barkers engaged in an amazingly brash self-driving con. The media eats this stuff up. Left out of the reportage often are some of the other companies developing these technologies, that are a bit more honest about the prospects for success. Bradley Stertz, corporate communications manager for Audi, says a fully automated vehicle with no driver is still 20 or 30 years away. “To have the car understand every single possibility is a massive challenge,” he says.
Government regulators at both the federal and state levels have been rightly insisting that the companies go slow with their development. By now it should be apparent to all that Silicon Valley, like Wall Street banksters and gamblers, has no scruples or principles about rolling the dice with the public’s welfare. Whether the company is Airbnb, or Uber, with its pirate mentality of breaking laws and evading taxes, or Google, stashing its mountain of cash in offshore, overseas tax havens, the Silicon Way is to “just do it”—and apologize later.
As a step toward fully autonomous self-driving vehicles, some of these companies are hoping to incorporate individual components into existing cars. Increasingly some of the luxury autos will have semi-autonomous features that allow the vehicle to accelerate, brake and steer a course with limited driver interaction. But that’s still a long way, fortunately, from a fully autonomous vehicle.
06-15-17, 07:58 PM
#184
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times
in
3,157 Posts
Anyway, back on topic.
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Halt
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Stop | Observer
Excerpts...
Think about it: Every driver makes hundreds of daily driving decisions that, strictly speaking, break driving laws (for example, crossing the yellow line to pull around a double-parked vehicle). It all works out fine because of something called “human judgment.” But what company is going to program its driverless cars to break the law? And what regulators will approve that product, knowing that it has been programmed to break the law?
Will insurance policies for driverless cars cover the car itself? Or will they cover the owner of the vehicle? Or perhaps the technology company that controls the car’s routes? Who will be responsible if there is an accident? ...
It’s clear that Uber and some of the other companies are professional carnival barkers engaged in an amazingly brash self-driving con. The media eats this stuff up. Left out of the reportage often are some of the other companies developing these technologies, that are a bit more honest about the prospects for success. Bradley Stertz, corporate communications manager for Audi, says a fully automated vehicle with no driver is still 20 or 30 years away. “To have the car understand every single possibility is a massive challenge,” he says.
Government regulators at both the federal and state levels have been rightly insisting that the companies go slow with their development. By now it should be apparent to all that Silicon Valley, like Wall Street banksters and gamblers, has no scruples or principles about rolling the dice with the public’s welfare. Whether the company is Airbnb, or Uber, with its pirate mentality of breaking laws and evading taxes, or Google, stashing its mountain of cash in offshore, overseas tax havens, the Silicon Way is to “just do it”—and apologize later.
As a step toward fully autonomous self-driving vehicles, some of these companies are hoping to incorporate individual components into existing cars. Increasingly some of the luxury autos will have semi-autonomous features that allow the vehicle to accelerate, brake and steer a course with limited driver interaction. But that’s still a long way, fortunately, from a fully autonomous vehicle.
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Halt
Why Driverless Cars Will Screech to a Stop | Observer
Excerpts...
Think about it: Every driver makes hundreds of daily driving decisions that, strictly speaking, break driving laws (for example, crossing the yellow line to pull around a double-parked vehicle). It all works out fine because of something called “human judgment.” But what company is going to program its driverless cars to break the law? And what regulators will approve that product, knowing that it has been programmed to break the law?
Will insurance policies for driverless cars cover the car itself? Or will they cover the owner of the vehicle? Or perhaps the technology company that controls the car’s routes? Who will be responsible if there is an accident? ...
It’s clear that Uber and some of the other companies are professional carnival barkers engaged in an amazingly brash self-driving con. The media eats this stuff up. Left out of the reportage often are some of the other companies developing these technologies, that are a bit more honest about the prospects for success. Bradley Stertz, corporate communications manager for Audi, says a fully automated vehicle with no driver is still 20 or 30 years away. “To have the car understand every single possibility is a massive challenge,” he says.
Government regulators at both the federal and state levels have been rightly insisting that the companies go slow with their development. By now it should be apparent to all that Silicon Valley, like Wall Street banksters and gamblers, has no scruples or principles about rolling the dice with the public’s welfare. Whether the company is Airbnb, or Uber, with its pirate mentality of breaking laws and evading taxes, or Google, stashing its mountain of cash in offshore, overseas tax havens, the Silicon Way is to “just do it”—and apologize later.
As a step toward fully autonomous self-driving vehicles, some of these companies are hoping to incorporate individual components into existing cars. Increasingly some of the luxury autos will have semi-autonomous features that allow the vehicle to accelerate, brake and steer a course with limited driver interaction. But that’s still a long way, fortunately, from a fully autonomous vehicle.
06-15-17, 09:40 PM
#185
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
Think about it: Every driver makes hundreds of daily driving decisions that, strictly speaking, break driving laws (for example, crossing the yellow line to pull around a double-parked vehicle). It all works out fine because of something called “human judgment.” But what company is going to program its driverless cars to break the law? And what regulators will approve that product, knowing that it has been programmed to break the law?
Basically the same thing that happens now when courts are called upon to determine who was primarily at fault and whether there was contributory fault by others. (I.e. it might be one of the drivers but could also be a design defect of a vehicle, or of the road design, or an unavoidable 'act of nature'.) But I'd expect the autonomous cars to record the details of exactly what led up to the incident and thereby make that determination much clearer.
06-16-17, 09:05 AM
#186
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times
in
985 Posts
Ever wonder why Google can determine that their test cars are NEVER the cause of any accidents?
06-16-17, 09:12 AM
#187
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times
in
985 Posts
The buggy whip manufacturers saw a product that actually worked on the public highways, not just a dreamy vision promoted by speculators with a lot of money to throw around.
06-16-17, 09:30 AM
#188
Senior Member
Sure, you could count on Uber and the like to program the recording software so that the details indicate that they are NEVER at fault. Maybe they can hire the engineers from VW who worked on emission controls software for this task.
Ever wonder why Google can determine that their test cars are NEVER the cause of any accidents?
Ever wonder why Google can determine that their test cars are NEVER the cause of any accidents?
Because its quite simple.
Humans cause the incidents.
06-16-17, 11:36 AM
#189
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times
in
3,157 Posts
Apparently the first auto collision in The US was with a cyclist. NYC's First Car Accident In 1896 Involved A Bicycle : Gothamist
06-16-17, 11:36 AM
#190
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times
in
985 Posts
Oh you mean like the humans that write and program the software and humans that write the procedures to interpret and react to the data gathered?
Good thing, eh, that the unbiased speculators and promoters/salesmen have hired all the angels that can fit in their HQ's to perfect the foolproof software that enable them to foist their dreamy safety vehicles on the public.
Good thing, eh, that the unbiased speculators and promoters/salesmen have hired all the angels that can fit in their HQ's to perfect the foolproof software that enable them to foist their dreamy safety vehicles on the public.
06-16-17, 11:40 AM
#191
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times
in
3,157 Posts
Sure, you could count on Uber and the like to program the recording software so that the details indicate that they are NEVER at fault. Maybe they can hire the engineers from VW who worked on emission controls software for this task.
Ever wonder why Google can determine that their test cars are NEVER the cause of any accidents?
Ever wonder why Google can determine that their test cars are NEVER the cause of any accidents?
https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/29/1...r-crash-report
So much for your assumption.
06-16-17, 11:50 AM
#192
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times
in
985 Posts
Yeah, "worked" as in manages to kill about 40,000 folks a year.
Apparently the first auto collision in The US was with a cyclist. NYC's First Car Accident In 1896 Involved A Bicycle : Gothamist
Apparently the first auto collision in The US was with a cyclist. NYC's First Car Accident In 1896 Involved A Bicycle : Gothamist
when robots do all of society's work, no more work related injuries or fatalities!
when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.
best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.
best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
06-16-17, 12:13 PM
#193
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,850
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,454 Times
in
985 Posts
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/t...hallenges.html
"In the minds of many in Silicon Valley and in the auto industry, it is inevitable that cars will eventually drive themselves. It is simply a matter of how long it will take for the technology to be reliably safe.
But as indicated by Google’s challenges with the so-called handoff between machines and humans — not to mention Uber’s problems during recent tests on the streets of San Francisco — there is a lot more work to be done before self-driving cars are ready for the mainstream. Here are some of the challenges facing technologists."
But as indicated by Google’s challenges with the so-called handoff between machines and humans — not to mention Uber’s problems during recent tests on the streets of San Francisco — there is a lot more work to be done before self-driving cars are ready for the mainstream. Here are some of the challenges facing technologists."
06-16-17, 01:25 PM
#195
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times
in
3,157 Posts
FYI
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/t...hallenges.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/t...hallenges.html
"In the minds of many in Silicon Valley and in the auto industry, it is inevitable that cars will eventually drive themselves. It is simply a matter of how long it will take for the technology to be reliably safe.
But as indicated by Google’s challenges with the so-called handoff between machines and humans — not to mention Uber’s problems during recent tests on the streets of San Francisco — there is a lot more work to be done before self-driving cars are ready for the mainstream. Here are some of the challenges facing technologists."
But as indicated by Google’s challenges with the so-called handoff between machines and humans — not to mention Uber’s problems during recent tests on the streets of San Francisco — there is a lot more work to be done before self-driving cars are ready for the mainstream. Here are some of the challenges facing technologists."
06-16-17, 01:26 PM
#196
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times
in
3,157 Posts
Just think in an imaginary world where you and a few other BF posters prefer to dwell...
when robots do all of society's work, no more work related injuries or fatalities!
when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.
best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.
best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
06-16-17, 04:16 PM
#197
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 307
Bikes: All mine are electric bikes now
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 57 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times
in
37 Posts
Just think in an imaginary world where you and a few other BF posters prefer to dwell...
when robots do all of society's work, no more work related injuries or fatalities!
when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.
best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
when robots do all the work at home, no more injuries or fatalities from doing work or projects at except for falling out of a hammock while taking a nap.
best of all when Virtual Reality devices are perfected there will be no reason for people to travel anywhere, everything worthwhile can be experienced at home and there will be no more need for human transportation and its associated costs!
Written 70 years ago. I read it when I was in my teens, easily 50 years ago, during my "sci-fi reading craze". Never forgot it. Even a half century later I can still remember the ending with perfect clarity. Better than what I remember what I had for breakfast yesterday. Even back then that story was scary as hell.
That said, I can't wait for the autonomous car to take over the roadways, and the driving chores. I'd feel much safer on my bike out there with the mechanical beasts minus their human conductors.
Last edited by momsonherbike; 06-16-17 at 04:27 PM.
06-17-17, 11:30 AM
#199
genec
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: West Coast
Posts: 27,079
Bikes: custom built, sannino, beachbike, giant trance x2
Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13658 Post(s)
Liked 4,531 Times
in
3,157 Posts
Only time will tell.
06-17-17, 04:00 PM
#200
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Brisbane Aust
Posts: 1,643
Bikes: Giant ToughRoad Giant talon
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 705 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
What a silly statement? What will you suggest next, that husbands and wives be replaced by robot spouses so people are not in danger of domestic violence? Shall we replace pushbikes with electric bikes because people are injuring their knees and hips and having heart attacks by riding too strenuously?
