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Daytime running lamps = Safer cycling ??

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Daytime running lamps = Safer cycling ??

Old 06-02-17, 09:17 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
I think you need more than one strategy. 'Have a light on coz they'll see me earlier' works, but only up to a point and remember, they need only see you at the point they need to manoeuvre to avoid you and that can be affected by things other than simply being obvious
Agree completely. To me, it is not a one stop solution, it is another more or less freebie that can help in many circumstances. There are almost no drawbacks, and if it can help in even a moderate number of situations, I see no reason to not do it.
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Old 06-04-17, 04:22 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I don't get it. I have good vision and I know that when driving in my car, I see bikes, motorcycles and cars better when they have their lights on, even during the day. I don't really need any more proof than that.
Yes that's true. I know those cars with bright headlights in the day time piss me off, there may be 20 other cars oncoming but I don't notice those, only the one with the bright lights.

I don't use a headlight in the day because I can see what's coming toward me and it's "usually" always on the other side of the road. If I see I car that looks like it 'may' be going to turn across my path I slow and cover the brake lever. It's the ones from behind that I want to alert to my presence though, a blinky and a hi-vis colored jacket or shirt do that. It doesn't have to be reflective, just something that stands out from the normal black attire that is the current fashion.

Of course there are times when hi-vis works against you...

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Old 06-04-17, 06:41 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by coominya View Post
Yes that's true. I know those cars with bright headlights in the day time piss me off, there may be 20 other cars oncoming but I don't notice those, only the one with the bright lights.
If they have their brights on, they're doing it wrong. Daytime running lights are not blinding. Using the extreme examples to argue against the majority is no better than those people who hate all cyclists because some are reckless.

I don't use a headlight in the day because I can see what's coming toward me and it's "usually" always on th e other side of the road.
Daytime lights are not so you can see. They're so others see you. You never know, and they do no harm.
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Old 06-05-17, 02:19 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
If they have their brights on, they're doing it wrong. Daytime running lights are not blinding. Using the extreme examples to argue against the majority is no better than those people who hate all cyclists because some are reckless.
Who says the case for no lights on bicycles in the daytime is the majority? I see blinkies and headlights on nearly all bikes out there. If you don't want to make yourself more visible on the road that's your affair, ride everywhere up on the back wheel if it turns you on.
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Old 06-05-17, 06:31 AM
  #105  
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This is why you run lights in the daytime:



It's an extreme example, but you only need one person whose mirror is dirty, maybe their eyesight isn't what it once was, and they're not paying that much attention, to not see you and you're having a bad day.

(If you don't get it, the red arrow is pointing to a car with the headlights off.

I can't even count the number of times I've been driving in fog or early morning and the only reason I know there's a car there is because they block the headlights of the car behind them.
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Old 06-05-17, 07:29 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
This is why you run lights in the daytime:



It's an extreme example, but you only need one person whose mirror is dirty, maybe their eyesight isn't what it once was, and they're not paying that much attention, to not see you and you're having a bad day.

(If you don't get it, the red arrow is pointing to a car with the headlights off.

I can't even count the number of times I've been driving in fog or early morning and the only reason I know there's a car there is because they block the headlights of the car behind them.
I don't believe anybody was discussing or debating the virtues of using lights while cycling in foggy or early morning (or any limited ambient visibility) conditions.

Also, any cyclist who makes a practice of passing motor vehicles in traffic on the right, or left for that matter, especially in limited visibility conditions as pictured, needs a better safety strategy than counting on DRL for anything.
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Old 06-05-17, 12:38 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by coominya View Post
Who says the case for no lights on bicycles in the daytime is the majority? I see blinkies and headlights on nearly all bikes out there. If you don't want to make yourself more visible on the road that's your affair, ride everywhere up on the back wheel if it turns you on.
I'm not sure I understand your comment, or that you understood mine. Based on your last sentence we seem to agree? I am 100% in favor of DRL.
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Old 06-05-17, 12:58 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
Citation needed. Post it it the helmet thread.

If helmets "didn't work" (had no effect), one would expect no change in head injuries (all other things kept the same).

If the numbers "shot up" (citation needed), something else has to be happening.

Expecting injury rates to "plummet" (whatever that means, exactly) is would likely be overly optimistic.

Are head injuries ever noted as the cause of death?
"Citation needed. Post it it the helmet thread."

I'll post here as it's part of the OP's claims.

"If helmets "didn't work" (had no effect), one would expect no change in head injuries (all other things kept the same)."

And they did stay basically the same. The change in Australia was minimal. Which all other forms of transit also saw (pedestrian, automobile). To date no city or country has mandated helmets and saw a substantial drop in the rate of head injuries, only in the rate of people riding.

"If the numbers "shot up" (citation needed), something else has to be happening."

What shot up was the rate of people wearing helmets.

"Expecting injury rates to "plummet" (whatever that means, exactly) is would likely be overly optimistic."

Not at all. Just as they correctly expected injury rates to plummet when seat belts were mandated, one would expect the same when helmets were mandated in certain places IF they worked as claimed. That did not happen.

"Are head injuries ever noted as the cause of death?"
Not really relevant to the question if they reduce head injuries.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8870773
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Old 06-05-17, 07:03 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by lostarchitect View Post
I'm not sure I understand your comment, or that you understood mine. Based on your last sentence we seem to agree? I am 100% in favor of DRL.
Yes, a misunderstanding, I'm in favor of DRL too.
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Old 06-05-17, 07:50 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by harshbarj View Post
"Expecting injury rates to "plummet" (whatever that means, exactly) is would likely be overly optimistic."

Not at all. Just as they correctly expected injury rates to plummet when seat belts were mandated, one would expect the same when helmets were mandated in certain places IF they worked as claimed. That did not happen.
There's no reason to expect that one thing will work as well as something else. And we still have no idea what you mean by "plummet".

Originally Posted by harshbarj View Post
"Citation needed. Post it it the helmet thread."
...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8870773
I've seen that reference more than once.

Originally Posted by article
This suggests the greatest effect of the helmet law was not to encourage cyclists to wear helmets, but to discourage cycling. In contrast, despite increases to at least 75% helmet wearing, the proportion of head injuries in cyclists admitted or treated at hospital declined by an average of only 13%. The percentage of cyclists with head injuries after collisions with motor vehicles in Victoria declined by more, but the proportion of head injured pedestrians also declined; the two followed a very similar trend.
This article is not showing the effect of helmet usage as the effect of mandatory helmet laws (which are not the same thing).

A reduction in head injuries of 13% is not "nothing" (it's not clear what caused it).

It would be interesting to more current data.

Last edited by njkayaker; 06-05-17 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 06-06-17, 07:45 AM
  #111  
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I have been using a DRL for some time now. I noticed a difference. I ride mainly in a city, cars at intersections seem to notice me more, and the biggest difference I have seen is pedestrians.

To me its all an odds game, nothing will make your ride 100% safe but if the DRLs decrease the chance of a major incident by 5% then I am all for it. And yes I am that jerk that leaves my DRL on while on a MUP. I aim it down slightly when I get off the road, but coming in and out of shadows and around limited visibility corners I have noticed I can see others with DRLs on MUPs sooner.

Just like car headlights, make sure your DRL is aimed correctly and "blinding" others should be minimal.
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Old 06-06-17, 08:09 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by bikecrate View Post
I'd have to disagree with some of the post. From my own experience I've been able to see other cyclist lights in bright FL sunlight from way off. Sometimes before I could make out that the shape in the distance was a bicycle. Of course these are going to be the kind of lights that are made to be seen in sunlight.
I don't doubt that it's true that you can see the light from a great distance, but I question whether that makes him any safer from a vehicle that far away. I understand the reasoning, you're already aware of him before seeing him, so you know he's there by the time he's close. But I'm skeptical that it makes any difference in the likelihood of actual collisions.
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Old 06-08-17, 05:40 AM
  #113  
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Guys just try do drive carefully
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Old 06-08-17, 06:56 AM
  #114  
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I commute in Washington, D.C. Most of my route to and from work is on one-way, one-lane streets (25 mph speed limit) with a bike lane on the right next to parked cars. My morning commute begins around 7:00a and I ride home about 7:00p. Lots of intersections on my route -- 4-way stops and traffic signals.

I've been most persuaded by my observations of bikes in front of me and how those who don't have tail lights blend into the parked cars. I live on a street with bike lanes on both sides and know that bikes with a headlight on during the daytime are far more visible to me when I look in my car's mirror to see if I'm clear to open the driver door or pull out of my parking space.

As a rider in this area I'm concerned about getting doored so I keep my front light slightly angled toward the parked cars.

So based on what I'm observing around this city everyday, I have front and rear lights blinking on my bike whenever I'm riding on the street. Nothing's fool-proof, of course, but I am convinced that lights front and rear increase my margin of safety.


.
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Old 06-09-17, 08:00 AM
  #115  
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Back when I had my 1st car, an old VW, I had my headlights turned on whenever the car was moving.

1- It got me in the habit of always turning the headlights off.
2- I immediately noticed that I got more respect from other drivers.

So on the bike, it seems like a no-brainer to me that daytime lights help me be seen/observed/noticed by other road users.

If nothing else, good strobes (Red-Zone/White-Zone) day and night help me to distract drivers... From their phones.
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Old 06-09-17, 08:06 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by ItsJustMe View Post
This is why you run lights in the daytime:


+1000

I don't know if this is unique to NZ, I don't recall it being an epidemic when I lived in the states, but so many people here have NO CLUE how to de-fog their windshields. People just drive around with fogged-up windows, like it's no big deal.

One time I hopped in a car as a passenger. The driver wiped a tiny little peep-hole in the windshield, and he was craning his neck to see through it. I told him to stay stopped for a few minutes, and showed him how to use the vents to de-fog the windshield. He was amazed.
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