Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Advocacy & Safety
Reload this Page >

The resentment of bicycle riders by drivers.

Notices
Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

The resentment of bicycle riders by drivers.

Old 07-30-17, 11:06 PM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by elocs
I can appreciate why you would avoid MUPs. Here most of them are on the edges of the city or through the large marsh in the center of town and except for in the middle of the day you do not see many people on them at one time because they are more spread out. I have not seen a bicyclist "take the lane" here in years because the law says you must ride as far to the right as safely possible and the police not only frown upon bicyclists riding in the middle of a lane of traffic with cars backed up behind them, the cops will ticket them for obstruction of traffic.
AFRAP is subjective to the cyclist's personal feeling of safety in their lane position. That sounds like blatant hostility towards' cyclists', by the police department. Where motorists' can do anything, and cyclists' can do nothing.
Originally Posted by elocs
Myself, I ride to enjoy the journey and seldom go faster than 10 mph unless I'm going downhill and especially when I am pulling a loaded cargo trailer that could have hundreds of pounds in it.
Ah, A loaded cargo trailer.
Originally Posted by elocs
But we all must choose to ride the best we can for each of us and the riding situation in every place is different. I feel the most safe riding where I know I won't encounter a motor vehicle, especially to day with drivers even more distracted by talking on cellphone or texting. I even see people texting while riding their bikes. Unbelievable.
Texting while riding. Is really stupid. I have seen that, too.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 07-30-17, 11:35 PM
  #27  
What happened?
 
Rollfast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Around here somewhere
Posts: 7,927

Bikes: 3 Rollfasts, 3 Schwinns, a Shelby and a Higgins Flightliner in a pear tree!

Liked 292 Times in 255 Posts
Remind them of the days when they rolled the streets and sidewalks up at night and you had to travel by donkey, if you've been there 60 years.
__________________
I don't know nothing, and I memorized it in school and got this here paper I'm proud of to show it.
Rollfast is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 05:17 AM
  #28  
Seņor Member
Thread Starter
 
elocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hello Wisconsin!
Posts: 441

Bikes: yes

Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516
AFRAP is subjective to the cyclist's personal feeling of safety in their lane position. That sounds like blatant hostility towards' cyclists', by the police department. Where motorists' can do anything, and cyclists' can do nothing.
Well, the police have the law and how it is written concerning bikes must ride as far to the right as safely possible.
They do give it leeway, but when a bicyclist rides in the middle of the lane and backs up traffic, the cops consider that obstruction of traffic. Like I said, I haven't seen anyone on a bike take the lane for more than a short time in years and with 2 universities and a tech college there are plenty of bike riders here. To be honest, it does create ill will with some drivers when a bike rider does that and I don't want to be the next bicyclist that driver encounters because he was pissed off by what somebody else had done.
elocs is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 11:34 AM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
johnnyspaghetti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Pigseye
Posts: 556

Bikes: Raleigh Sports

Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Common sense, is not a given.
johnnyspaghetti is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 12:28 PM
  #30  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by elocs
Well, the police have the law and how it is written concerning bikes must ride as far to the right as safely possible.
They do give it leeway, but when a bicyclist rides in the middle of the lane and backs up traffic, the cops consider that obstruction of traffic. Like I said, I haven't seen anyone on a bike take the lane for more than a short time in years and with 2 universities and a tech college there are plenty of bike riders here. To be honest, it does create ill will with some drivers when a bike rider does that and I don't want to be the next bicyclist that driver encounters because he was pissed off by what somebody else had done.
The cyclist isn't the one backing up traffic. The first vehicle behind the cyclist is the one backing up traffic. Nothing is stopping the motorist from passing. But there are places that a motorist shouldn't pass a cyclist, OR EVEN A MOTORIST. Like on a hill, curve or blind curve. Those drivers that don't like it, shouldn't be driving. Because, They are treating cyclists' as, less than human. By virtue of a close pass, gunning the engine, honking(and even brake checking)
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 12:51 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 711
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516
AFRAP is subjective to the cyclist's personal feeling of safety in their lane position. That sounds like blatant hostility towards' cyclists', by the police department. Where motorists' can do anything, and cyclists' can do nothing.
I checked my state law, it does say "as practical and safe". I'd argue the ticket in court, based on personal experience from being buzzed when I was really far over and any documentation that describes being too far to the right as being less safe due to visibility issues.
rachel120 is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 07:19 PM
  #32  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 1,409

Bikes: 89 Paramount OS 84 Fuji Touring Series III New! 2013 Focus Izalco Ergoride

Likes: 0
Liked 75 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by elocs
Well, the police have the law and how it is written concerning bikes must ride as far to the right as safely possible.
They do give it leeway, but when a bicyclist rides in the middle of the lane and backs up traffic, the cops consider that obstruction of traffic. Like I said, I haven't seen anyone on a bike take the lane for more than a short time in years and with 2 universities and a tech college there are plenty of bike riders here. To be honest, it does create ill will with some drivers when a bike rider does that and I don't want to be the next bicyclist that driver encounters because he was pissed off by what somebody else had done.
Looking at Wis statutes, I didn't look for definition of roadway, but typical the roadway is the area between the white lines, if no line between curbs, if no curbs the paved width.

So when you are on the "roadway" you need to to be as "close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb", where "practicable" is going to depend on definition accepted by a court (may be precedent in Wis). But then there is a laundry list of exemptions, including as in most states "substandard width lanes". "Substandard" being defined as "means a lane that is too narrow for a bicycle or electric personal assistive mobility device and a motor vehicle to travel safely side by side within the lane". In many states there is a 3-foot law (not sure of Wisconsin) I would take "travel safely side by side" to mean giving you 3 feet of space without crossing the centerline. So in reality in many situations there will be "substandard width lanes" and FRAP doesn't apply.

scott s.
.
scott967 is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 07:40 PM
  #33  
Seņor Member
Thread Starter
 
elocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hello Wisconsin!
Posts: 441

Bikes: yes

Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Chris0516
Nothing is stopping the motorist from passing.
Except for maybe a double yellow line or a line of traffic coming at them in the other direction. But when all is said and done, is it really worth risking your life or a nasty encounter with a motorist by demanding you should be able to take the lane? But then you might not be the one to suffer but some poor bicyclist later on who is minding their own business and keeping out of the way.
elocs is offline  
Old 07-31-17, 07:54 PM
  #34  
Seņor Member
Thread Starter
 
elocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hello Wisconsin!
Posts: 441

Bikes: yes

Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by scott967
Looking at Wis statutes, I didn't look for definition of roadway, but typical the roadway is the area between the white lines, if no line between curbs, if no curbs the paved width.
scott s.
Local ordinances may supersede state law. For instance, by state law riding on the sidewalks is permitted, but cities may have an ordinance against it. My city allows it in all but the downtown area.
In my city you are asking for trouble if you ride your bike in the lane of traffic when you could safely ride in the area where vehicles would park allowing moving vehicles to pass the bike without needing to cross the center line.
They have put miles of bike lanes, even if they are painted lines, to give a place for bikes to ride without going into the lane of traffic. Other places are certainly different but this system works well here in keeping bicyclists safe.
elocs is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 01:27 AM
  #35  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 1,409

Bikes: 89 Paramount OS 84 Fuji Touring Series III New! 2013 Focus Izalco Ergoride

Likes: 0
Liked 75 Times in 55 Posts
Originally Posted by elocs
Local ordinances may supersede state law. For instance, by state law riding on the sidewalks is permitted, but cities may have an ordinance against it. My city allows it in all but the downtown area.
In my city you are asking for trouble if you ride your bike in the lane of traffic when you could safely ride in the area where vehicles would park allowing moving vehicles to pass the bike without needing to cross the center line.
They have put miles of bike lanes, even if they are painted lines, to give a place for bikes to ride without going into the lane of traffic. Other places are certainly different but this system works well here in keeping bicyclists safe.
I see there is a separate section 346.59 on "Minimum speed regulation" which applies to "vehicles" (thus including bicycles) which is what I assume is being cited, though the wording is kind of vague IMHO "moving at a speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic". I see the law was amended in 2013, to strike the requirement that an overtaking vehicle sound an audible signal.

I think it is both normal and reasonable for bicycles to be on the road, but that's me; judge may see it differently.

scott s.
.
scott967 is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 02:10 AM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by elocs
Except for maybe a double yellow line or a line of traffic coming at them in the other direction. But when all is said and done, is it really worth risking your life or a nasty encounter with a motorist by demanding you should be able to take the lane? But then you might not be the one to suffer but some poor bicyclist later on who is minding their own business and keeping out of the way.
I have seen too many times. Where a cyclist was 'hugging the curb', and was killed as a result. Because the motorist didn't see them.

I was almost killed, following the same bad advice of not 'taking the lane'. I have lights on my bike, and wear reflective clothing. But I was so close to the curb, that there was no possible way for motorist to see me. I was on a six-lane arterial w/ a 40mph speed limit.

The motorist would have seen me better if, I had been directly in from of them.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 11:04 PM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Washington Grove, Maryland
Posts: 1,466

Bikes: 2003 (24)20-Speed Specialized Allez'

Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by rachel120
I checked my state law, it does say "as practical and safe". I'd argue the ticket in court, based on personal experience from being buzzed when I was really far over and any documentation that describes being too far to the right as being less safe due to visibility issues.
More than personal experience. Also, The fact that, 'riding the curb', is a veritable 'green light' to pass a cyclist w/o paying attention. Because a motorist won't slow down.
Chris0516 is offline  
Old 08-01-17, 11:34 PM
  #38  
Yo
 
MikeOK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Ozark Mountains
Posts: 1,610

Bikes: 2003 Yeti AS-R, 2018 Waltly ti

Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Many of my routes require me to ride a divided highway for a short portion. I ride on the white line to avoid the gravel and broken glass that's all over the shoulder. Most cars are pretty good about moving into the left lane for me but occasionally they will be two wide and swoosh right by me at 65 mph. I really need to get a mirror for those times but I haven't been able to find one that mounts on my helmet.
MikeOK is offline  
Old 08-02-17, 10:54 AM
  #39  
Seņior Member
 
ItsJustMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,749

Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)

Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 7 Posts
FWIW there is precident that a bicycle riding at a reasonable speed for a bicycle can't be guilty of obstructing traffic.

If you're in a 30 zone doing 18 on a bicycle and taking the lane, and you can show that you have a valid safety concern that causes you to take the lane, and 18 MPH is a very reasonable speed to go, you are not guilty of obstructing traffic. Doing the same at 5 MPH would be obstructing traffic.

Your municipality may have a rule that you have to give way if being followed by more than X vehicles wishing to pass. That's another issue.

And of course, not guilty of doesn't mean you won't be pulled over, bothered and ticketed.
__________________
Work: the 8 hours that separates bike rides.
ItsJustMe is offline  
Old 08-02-17, 11:07 AM
  #40  
Seņor Member
Thread Starter
 
elocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hello Wisconsin!
Posts: 441

Bikes: yes

Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by ItsJustMe
FWIW there is precident that a bicycle riding at a reasonable speed for a bicycle can't be guilty of obstructing traffic.

If you're in a 30 zone doing 18 on a bicycle and taking the lane, and you can show that you have a valid safety concern that causes you to take the lane, and 18 MPH is a very reasonable speed to go, you are not guilty of obstructing traffic. Doing the same at 5 MPH would be obstructing traffic.

Your municipality may have a rule that you have to give way if being followed by more than X vehicles wishing to pass. That's another issue.

And of course, not guilty of doesn't mean you won't be pulled over, bothered and ticketed.
Taking the lane in my city of 50,000 with 2 universities and a tech college just doesn't happen and as I have said I haven't seen it for years. The police have trained the people well. And just like with cars when people get noble about fighting it in court they usually just pay the fine and be done with it. But if a cop here were to see a bike in the middle of a lane of traffic with cars back up behind them, then the bicyclist will be pulled over and at the least be majorly inconvenienced in their day and at worst ticketed. Bike riding situations are not the same everywhere and here they have spent thousands of tax dollars on finding ways for those on bikes to ride more safely and get to where they want to go. If bicyclists insist on inserting themselves within traffic and dealing with vehicles weighing thousands of pounds when there are viable and better alternatives they are flirting with disaster. But here there are side streets and bike paths that parallel every busy street so there is no need for those on bikes to insert themselves into heavy traffic just to prove that they have a right to be there. Frankly, my life is way, way more valuable to me.
elocs is offline  
Old 08-13-17, 03:08 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 450
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Of course they are resenting, we have all the fun on the bikes!
whitecat is offline  
Old 08-13-17, 11:43 AM
  #42  
20+mph Commuter
 
JoeyBike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Greenville. SC USA
Posts: 7,537

Bikes: Surly LHT, Surly Lowside, a folding bike, and a beater.

Liked 343 Times in 227 Posts
Originally Posted by elocs
In my city there are many drivers who resent bike riders...
In my city, the feeling is mutual. I am fine with it.
JoeyBike is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
squirtdad
Advocacy & Safety
6
08-19-13 01:59 AM
DP1112
General Cycling Discussion
7
12-19-12 08:09 PM
High Roller
Vehicular Cycling (VC)
17
08-03-10 07:41 AM
Velo Dog
General Cycling Discussion
15
06-28-10 07:03 PM
possiblecrit
Advocacy & Safety
7
01-18-10 10:52 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.