Skipjacks

Yes. Always. And not because I'm virtue signaling about how cool I am as a cyclist.

I do it for the selfish reason of how much I like breathing.

I don't live in an area with a lot of bike traffic. So I assume cars aren't used to dealing with bikes. Any deviance from the road rules can mean instant death. So I stick to the rules. Then at least if I get killed the car driver will be fully liable.

JoeyBike

I am glad you added that notation because the crowd here on A&S can be tough. Let me add that NOBODY "blows" through traffic signals very many times and lives to post about it here. That is really a derogatory term frequently used here purposely to raise hackles, or generically for ANY type of lawless crossing of intersections. We all look, or we are already dead.

Same here. And I will thank the officer for doing his duty, and PAY the ticket.

JoeyBike

I hope this is sarcasm. Certainly you would not be happy being Dead Right, would you? Your family?

wphamilton

Unless it was a bonehead move or another good reason for the ticket I think I'd fight it, not even plead down. Make it cost more than the fine, to discourage enforcement if nothing else.

debade

So, it looks like Idaho is out of you travel plans and perhaps Chicago https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bike-study-getting-around-20161211-column.html

JoeyBike

If you wanted to miss half a day's pay you would win anyway. The cop will NEVER SHOW UP in court at the arraignment in Orleans Parish (county).

Skipjacks

Who said I'd be happy?

I said the car driver would be fully liable, meaning their insurance would pay out for my medical costs plus a sizable wrongful death claim to help my surviving family.

Good lord, why in the world would you think I'd be happy about getting killed by a car?

JoeyBike

The way you worded it. Like you would prefer dying "in the right" than just going on with your life after breaking a dumb auto law on a bicycle.

Doohickie

One thing is certain. You should ALWAYS STOP for armadillos.

sweeks

This is beside the point. Cyclists in most areas are given the same rights as motorists, but also have the same responsibilities. Applying your logic to pedestrians, how would you feel about random people walking across intersections when *you* have the right-of-way if they claim exemption because they aren't a danger?
Then there is the issue of *perception*. No one really knows how motorists change their behavior in response to observing cyclists violating the same laws they have to obey, but is it likely to be in the direction of greater caution?

This may well be true, but it may also be in part a result of motorists being conditioned to view cyclists as "scofflaws" and to fail to operate with due caution around them.

I prefer to ride as if I am part of the traffic pattern. The potential ill-will I generate by flagrantly violating traffic laws could well outweigh the few minutes I save. What's more, this is more likely to have its negative effect on another cyclist.

This is the "glass ceiling" for bicycles as mainstream transportation in my opinion. Every cyclist who fails to consider the influence of his or her behavior on the motorists (and even other cyclists and pedestrians around) bears some of the responsibility for poor treatment of cyclists at the hands of motorists, urban planners and police.
Steve

Skipjacks

Whatever dude. My wording wouldn't have lead any rational reader to assume that.

Pick a fight with someone else who has time for this nonsense.

Doohickie

A&S is a fantastic place.

Milton Keynes

And skunks, as I experienced one morning. I'm not a religious man, but my prayers were answered that he didn't spray even though he had his tail up while running across the road.

Milton Keynes

They don't call it the Argument & Sarcasm forum for no reason.

Doohickie

You're kidding right? This happens literally ALL THE TIME. It's called jaywalking.

canklecat

Fact. Voice of experience.

Doohickie

As canklecat is my witness.

JoeyBike

For me there is no speculation. How DO i feel? I loathe pedestrians in the city grid. That's how I feel. BUT...I don't go out of my way to harm them or to yell at them or to assume EVERY ONE OF THEM are mindless lemmings in reality. But when cycling in the grid I do have to assume that every one of them is a potential road hazard and act accordingly. I LOOK FOR THEM. I slow down for them. I stop for them. I go around them. I don't want to hit them due to self preservation instinct knowing that if I clobber a ped I am going to get hurt too. I don't care one bit if the next van that comes along smashes every one of them found out of the crosswalk and against the light. But I do not feel violent against them myself.

In my city, which I admit is fairly unique, pedestrians do whatever the Hell they want to as do motorists and of course...cyclists. Not just me. ALL of us (those who obey laws on foot or bikes represent a statistical zero). The only reason motor vehicles do anything lawful is because there are traffic cameras almost everywhere and cars have license plates - low hanging fruit for the city to make money.

So I know EXACTLY how it feels if everyone does whatever they feel like doing. It's just not a big deal so long as I pay attention.

coominya

Thanks for the post, if I ever needed a reminder to play by the rules, that's it.

jon c. 

Finally a point on which we can all agree.

jon c. 

Imagine coming down a hill with a stop sign at a T intersection. At the bottom, you're taking a left and going up a hill. You can see that the road is empty for half a mile on both sides and there's no traffic on the road on which you're traveling. Not a car or a human being anywhere in sight.

Is anyone really going to come to a complete stop in that scenario?

raqball 

Yes. I am not trying to win the Tour de France and I assume most others here are not on TDF teams. Disobeying the law saves you a few seconds. If you are tight on time then maybe you should have left a few minutes earlier. If you are training for the TDF then perhaps city streets are not the best training ground?

debade

The glass ceiling seems honorable but it's a double standard. Next time you drive, count the infractions by motorists. Safe to say every motorist will act outside of code.

The double standard you suggest is just that, a double standard. And it assumes, that we cyclists must earn safer roads from motorists and law enforcement.

Cyclists need to hold motorists to a higher standard. After all, they direct the vehicle that can do the most damage. The Dutch and many others have moved in this direction.

elocs

As a bicyclist, just as a motorist, how can I choose to break the traffic rules of the road with impunity if I never know if there might be a cop behind me or who can see what I've done.
Not to mention the potential for an accident which if a motorist does it may just end with the inconvenience of a fender-bender but for the cyclist could have nasty or even fatal consequences.

sweeks

I was trying to say it's a bit hypocritical for a cyclist to claim that it's OK to violate traffic laws because "who are cyclists a danger to?", but that pedestrians shouldn't jaywalk... who are pedestrians a danger to? (/s)

A car driver, attempting to avoid a cyclist, might hit another car, a pedestrian, a cyclist, and might himself be injured or killed. Same applies to pedestrians jumping out into vehicular (car, bikes) traffic.

Traffic tends to move more efficiently when everyone follows the rules.
Steve