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Do you obey traffic signals?

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Do you obey traffic signals?

Old 08-22-17, 01:02 PM
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Yes. Always. And not because I'm virtue signaling about how cool I am as a cyclist.

I do it for the selfish reason of how much I like breathing.

I don't live in an area with a lot of bike traffic. So I assume cars aren't used to dealing with bikes. Any deviance from the road rules can mean instant death. So I stick to the rules. Then at least if I get killed the car driver will be fully liable.
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Old 08-22-17, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
...Now, I don't blow through the control device, I make it a rolling stop, but if it is clear, safe, and practicable for me to go, I will.
I am glad you added that notation because the crowd here on A&S can be tough. Let me add that NOBODY "blows" through traffic signals very many times and lives to post about it here. That is really a derogatory term frequently used here purposely to raise hackles, or generically for ANY type of lawless crossing of intersections. We all look, or we are already dead.

EDIT: And if I ever am ticketed for doing so, I'll acknowledge that I broke the law and pay the fine.
Same here. And I will thank the officer for doing his duty, and PAY the ticket.
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Old 08-22-17, 01:17 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks
...Then at least if I get killed the car driver will be fully liable.
I hope this is sarcasm. Certainly you would not be happy being Dead Right, would you? Your family?
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Old 08-22-17, 01:19 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Quote: EDIT: And if I ever am ticketed for doing so, I'll acknowledge that I broke the law and pay the fine.

Same here. And I will thank the officer for doing his duty, and PAY the ticket.
Unless it was a bonehead move or another good reason for the ticket I think I'd fight it, not even plead down. Make it cost more than the fine, to discourage enforcement if nothing else.
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Old 08-22-17, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by raqball
One of the worse replies I've ever read, and that says a lot.

1. Cyclists who regularly and knowingly violate the law are a danger to the public and other cyclists. There are 2 recent threads here when a cyclist has killed a pedestrian. They cause driver anger and road rage against other cyclists and they put motorists who strike them in danger. A secondary accident after striking the cyclist? An accident caused by avoiding striking the cyclist? The grief of knowing you killed someone even though it may have been the other person's fault? I can go on but why bother.

2. Most (more than 50% easily) of the cycling related accidents I read about are cyclist error / violation of law. Sure there are plenty caused by inattentive motorists but I mainly read about accidents caused by slaloming and running red lights.

3. The majority of cyclist I see do stop at red lights. Not sure when you live but it's not a place I'd want to visit. I say about 30% of the cyclist I see on a daily basis do not stop for red light and the other 70% do.
So, it looks like Idaho is out of you travel plans and perhaps Chicago https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bike-study-getting-around-20161211-column.html
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Old 08-22-17, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
Unless it was a bonehead move or another good reason for the ticket I think I'd fight it, not even plead down. Make it cost more than the fine, to discourage enforcement if nothing else.
If you wanted to miss half a day's pay you would win anyway. The cop will NEVER SHOW UP in court at the arraignment in Orleans Parish (county).
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Old 08-22-17, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I hope this is sarcasm. Certainly you would not be happy being Dead Right, would you? Your family?
Who said I'd be happy?

I said the car driver would be fully liable, meaning their insurance would pay out for my medical costs plus a sizable wrongful death claim to help my surviving family.

Good lord, why in the world would you think I'd be happy about getting killed by a car?
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Old 08-22-17, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Skipjacks
Good lord, why in the world would you think I'd be happy about getting killed by a car?
The way you worded it. Like you would prefer dying "in the right" than just going on with your life after breaking a dumb auto law on a bicycle.
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Old 08-22-17, 01:57 PM
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One thing is certain. You should ALWAYS STOP for armadillos.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 08-22-17, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by debade
First who are cyclists a danger to?
This is beside the point. Cyclists in most areas are given the same rights as motorists, but also have the same responsibilities. Applying your logic to pedestrians, how would you feel about random people walking across intersections when *you* have the right-of-way if they claim exemption because they aren't a danger?
Then there is the issue of *perception*. No one really knows how motorists change their behavior in response to observing cyclists violating the same laws they have to obey, but is it likely to be in the direction of greater caution?

Originally Posted by debade
Now take the time to learn how the most lethal accidents happen. I believe you will find they happen when cyclist are following road rules.
This may well be true, but it may also be in part a result of motorists being conditioned to view cyclists as "scofflaws" and to fail to operate with due caution around them.

I prefer to ride as if I am part of the traffic pattern. The potential ill-will I generate by flagrantly violating traffic laws could well outweigh the few minutes I save. What's more, this is more likely to have its negative effect on another cyclist.

This is the "glass ceiling" for bicycles as mainstream transportation in my opinion. Every cyclist who fails to consider the influence of his or her behavior on the motorists (and even other cyclists and pedestrians around) bears some of the responsibility for poor treatment of cyclists at the hands of motorists, urban planners and police.
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Old 08-22-17, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
The way you worded it. Like you would prefer dying "in the right" than just going on with your life after breaking a dumb auto law on a bicycle.
Whatever dude. My wording wouldn't have lead any rational reader to assume that.

Pick a fight with someone else who has time for this nonsense.
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Old 08-22-17, 02:25 PM
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A&S is a fantastic place.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 08-22-17, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
One thing is certain. You should ALWAYS STOP for armadillos.
And skunks, as I experienced one morning. I'm not a religious man, but my prayers were answered that he didn't spray even though he had his tail up while running across the road.
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Old 08-22-17, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
A&S is a fantastic place.
They don't call it the Argument & Sarcasm forum for no reason.
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Old 08-22-17, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sweeks
how would you feel about random people walking across intersections when *you* have the right-of-way if they claim exemption because they aren't a danger?
You're kidding right? This happens literally ALL THE TIME. It's called jaywalking.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 08-22-17, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
One thing is certain. You should ALWAYS STOP for armadillos.
Fact. Voice of experience.
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Old 08-22-17, 02:49 PM
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As canklecat is my witness.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 08-22-17, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by sweeks
...Applying your logic to pedestrians, how would you feel about random people walking across intersections when *you* have the right-of-way...
For me there is no speculation. How DO i feel? I loathe pedestrians in the city grid. That's how I feel. BUT...I don't go out of my way to harm them or to yell at them or to assume EVERY ONE OF THEM are mindless lemmings in reality. But when cycling in the grid I do have to assume that every one of them is a potential road hazard and act accordingly. I LOOK FOR THEM. I slow down for them. I stop for them. I go around them. I don't want to hit them due to self preservation instinct knowing that if I clobber a ped I am going to get hurt too. I don't care one bit if the next van that comes along smashes every one of them found out of the crosswalk and against the light. But I do not feel violent against them myself.

In my city, which I admit is fairly unique, pedestrians do whatever the Hell they want to as do motorists and of course...cyclists. Not just me. ALL of us (those who obey laws on foot or bikes represent a statistical zero). The only reason motor vehicles do anything lawful is because there are traffic cameras almost everywhere and cars have license plates - low hanging fruit for the city to make money.

So I know EXACTLY how it feels if everyone does whatever they feel like doing. It's just not a big deal so long as I pay attention.
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Old 08-22-17, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by raqball
Agree!

Meanwhile in Chicago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tw9nxblQNDI
Thanks for the post, if I ever needed a reminder to play by the rules, that's it.
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Old 08-22-17, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
One thing is certain. You should ALWAYS STOP for armadillos.
Finally a point on which we can all agree.
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Old 08-22-17, 06:59 PM
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Imagine coming down a hill with a stop sign at a T intersection. At the bottom, you're taking a left and going up a hill. You can see that the road is empty for half a mile on both sides and there's no traffic on the road on which you're traveling. Not a car or a human being anywhere in sight.

Is anyone really going to come to a complete stop in that scenario?
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Old 08-22-17, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jon c.
Imagine coming down a hill with a stop sign at a T intersection. At the bottom, you're taking a left and going up a hill. You can see that the road is empty for half a mile on both sides and there's no traffic on the road on which you're traveling. Not a car or a human being anywhere in sight.

Is anyone really going to come to a complete stop in that scenario?
Yes. I am not trying to win the Tour de France and I assume most others here are not on TDF teams. Disobeying the law saves you a few seconds. If you are tight on time then maybe you should have left a few minutes earlier. If you are training for the TDF then perhaps city streets are not the best training ground?
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Old 08-22-17, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sweeks
This is beside the point. Cyclists in most areas are given the same rights as motorists, but also have the same responsibilities. Applying your logic to pedestrians, how would you feel about random people walking across intersections when *you* have the right-of-way if they claim exemption because they aren't a danger?
Then there is the issue of *perception*. No one really knows how motorists change their behavior in response to observing cyclists violating the same laws they have to obey, but is it likely to be in the direction of greater caution?


This may well be true, but it may also be in part a result of motorists being conditioned to view cyclists as "scofflaws" and to fail to operate with due caution around them.

I prefer to ride as if I am part of the traffic pattern. The potential ill-will I generate by flagrantly violating traffic laws could well outweigh the few minutes I save. What's more, this is more likely to have its negative effect on another cyclist.

This is the "glass ceiling" for bicycles as mainstream transportation in my opinion. Every cyclist who fails to consider the influence of his or her behavior on the motorists (and even other cyclists and pedestrians around) bears some of the responsibility for poor treatment of cyclists at the hands of motorists, urban planners and police.
Steve
The glass ceiling seems honorable but it's a double standard. Next time you drive, count the infractions by motorists. Safe to say every motorist will act outside of code.

The double standard you suggest is just that, a double standard. And it assumes, that we cyclists must earn safer roads from motorists and law enforcement.

Cyclists need to hold motorists to a higher standard. After all, they direct the vehicle that can do the most damage. The Dutch and many others have moved in this direction.
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Old 08-22-17, 08:15 PM
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As a bicyclist, just as a motorist, how can I choose to break the traffic rules of the road with impunity if I never know if there might be a cop behind me or who can see what I've done.
Not to mention the potential for an accident which if a motorist does it may just end with the inconvenience of a fender-bender but for the cyclist could have nasty or even fatal consequences.
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Old 08-22-17, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
You're kidding right? This happens literally ALL THE TIME. It's called jaywalking.
I was trying to say it's a bit hypocritical for a cyclist to claim that it's OK to violate traffic laws because "who are cyclists a danger to?", but that pedestrians shouldn't jaywalk... who are pedestrians a danger to? (/s)

A car driver, attempting to avoid a cyclist, might hit another car, a pedestrian, a cyclist, and might himself be injured or killed. Same applies to pedestrians jumping out into vehicular (car, bikes) traffic.

Traffic tends to move more efficiently when everyone follows the rules.
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