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Do you obey traffic signals?

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Do you obey traffic signals?

Old 08-24-17, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Let me add that NOBODY "blows" through traffic signals very many times and lives to post about it here.
To clarify my original concept wasn't about abandoning common sense - rather if you don't perceive an imminent danger to yourself or others.
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Old 08-24-17, 06:10 PM
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I've read countless posts and threads about how many ways to properly violate traffic laws because each person has better judgement than everybody else.

Yes, there are those who tell you how to properly run a red light or a stop sign. There are others who tell you it's safe to ride ninja or salmon. And there are those who advocate sidewalk-riding. However, I don't think I've seen an advocate of one violation endorsing another. Ironic huh?

But they do all consistently criticise the obedience of traffic laws as blind faith without considering that traffic laws came about as a solution to a big problem: traffic fatalities.

If every one of us, motorist and cyclist alike, were to follow traffic laws faithfully, what would be the worse outcome? On the other hand, what would be the outcome if we all were to practice the advice of the red-light and stop-sign runners, the ninja riders, the salmoners, and the sidewalk riders?

The courts and hospitals are filled with people and their victims who think they have better judgement than everybody else.
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Old 08-24-17, 06:23 PM
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Yes,

Two years ago, I ran a rural stop sign on U.S. highway 50. I came about three feet away from being hit.

I will never -- ever-- do that again. My fault all the way.

I ride very early in the morning and there is very little traffic. Since that incident, my practice is to always stop at stop lights and wait for the light to turn green.
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Old 08-24-17, 07:03 PM
  #104  
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I slow down if clear I go. Or if the view is clear and nothing's coming I ride on thru.
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Old 08-24-17, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
I've read countless posts and threads about how many ways to properly violate traffic laws because each person has better judgement than everybody else.

Yes, there are those who tell you how to properly run a red light or a stop sign. There are others who tell you it's safe to ride ninja or salmon. And there are those who advocate sidewalk-riding. However, I don't think I've seen an advocate of one violation endorsing another. Ironic huh?

But they do all consistently criticise the obedience of traffic laws as blind faith without considering that traffic laws came about as a solution to a big problem: traffic fatalities.

If every one of us, motorist and cyclist alike, were to follow traffic laws faithfully, what would be the worse outcome? On the other hand, what would be the outcome if we all were to practice the advice of the red-light and stop-sign runners, the ninja riders, the salmoners, and the sidewalk riders?

The courts and hospitals are filled with people and their victims who think they have better judgement than everybody else.
Well, I was with you until you threw sidewalk riding into the mix because in my city it is legal to ride a bike on the sidewalks and even in a crosswalk and not a violation of any traffic law here.
But there are many here who are completely convinced that they know all there is to know about cycling and how to ride, and if you don't believe it, just ask them.
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Old 08-24-17, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JGM411
Yes,

Two years ago, I ran a rural stop sign on U.S. highway 50. I came about three feet away from being hit.

I will never -- ever-- do that again. My fault all the way.

I ride very early in the morning and there is very little traffic. Since that incident, my practice is to always stop at stop lights and wait for the light to turn green.
Experience is a great teacher...most of the time. As a cyclist, if you are hit or hit someone as a result of your breaking the law then you lose the protection of the law. So much of life is about choices and consequences.
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Old 08-24-17, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel4
I've read countless posts and threads about how many ways to properly violate traffic laws because each person has better judgement than everybody else.
It's not better judgement, just a willingness to use judgement. If there are no cars on the road, a cyclist can't be hit by one. It doesn't really take superior judgement to recognize this. When no cars are present, coming to a full and complete stop does nothing to increase your safety. But if it makes you feel good, there's no reason not to do it.
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Old 08-24-17, 08:41 PM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by jon c.
It's not better judgement, just a willingness to use judgement. If there are no cars on the road, a cyclist can't be hit by one. It doesn't really take superior judgement to recognize this. When no cars are present, coming to a full and complete stop does nothing to increase your safety. But if it makes you feel good, there's no reason not to do it.
+1. How on Earth do some of these folks ever cross a street that is NOT protected by a stoplight?

I cross all sorts of major thoroughfares from side streets with only a stop sign facing me. Isn't this fairly common? I roll up to the stop sign, and depending on line of sight and traffic (or lack of traffic) I slow down, or stop, look both ways, and cross when it is safe. It is the EXACT SAME THING running a red light instead of a stop sign. Exactly the same technique. And no more dangerous. Wait until nothing is coming, then go. Why is this concept so impossible for some to grasp? They may not want to DO it, but certainly they can see plain as day that it is exactly the same situation. Truly perplexing.
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Old 08-24-17, 09:47 PM
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Sometimes, other times they were made with no regard for cyclists and you have to improvise.

For example the entry to the bike path in S San Clemente requires a left turn across a double double (so a barrier) or ride about .5 mile and do a u-turn.
There was no thought about bikes in the creation of those lines.

Many left turn stop lights will not trigger on a cyclist waiting in the left lane. I run those.
I've been stop by an officer over that. The light was broken - it becomes a stop sign.

Last edited by Doge; 08-24-17 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 08-24-17, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
One thing is certain. You should ALWAYS STOP for armadillos.
True. I once ran over a small armadillo, when I lived in Texas. It was completely un-injured.
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Old 08-24-17, 10:11 PM
  #111  
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Yep. Canklecat was with me when I hit one. It scurried off into the brush and chirped at us. I went down but escaped injury.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 08-25-17, 08:08 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
Yep. Canklecat was with me when I hit one. It scurried off into the brush and chirped at us. I went down but escaped injury.
Keep an eye out for Lone Star Beer empties, that's the tip-off for armadillos staggering around.
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Old 08-25-17, 12:05 PM
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No matter what vehicle I am driving I attempt to follow all traffic laws and stay focused on driving when I am driving.
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Old 08-25-17, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
I cross all sorts of major thoroughfares from side streets with only a stop sign facing me. Isn't this fairly common? I roll up to the stop sign, and depending on line of sight and traffic (or lack of traffic) I slow down, or stop, look both ways, and cross when it is safe. It is the EXACT SAME THING running a red light instead of a stop sign. Exactly the same technique. And no more dangerous. Wait until nothing is coming, then go. Why is this concept so impossible for some to grasp? They may not want to DO it, but certainly they can see plain as day that it is exactly the same situation. Truly perplexing.
While what you said is basically true, it's still a false argument. A stop sign allows the individual to use their judgement and decide when they will proceed through an intersection, but a stop light is an absolute that doesn't allow one to make that decision for themselves.

In the instance of a shared public asset with rules for it's use, the ability of the individual to do something with little risk isn't the only consideration in question. While I do take some liberties with the rules of the road, I also have respect for my ethical obligation to not consider myself entitled to special privileges. I don't expect others to approve of my transgressions, and find it truly perplexing that some don't see the difference.
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Old 08-25-17, 02:12 PM
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Blow through them every time I can!

I have ridden this way since I learned to ride and I am fifty now. Knocking on wood...
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Old 08-25-17, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by raqball
I alway do unless I encounter a dead red, but the law where I live allows going through a dead red.


can you please cite the law in California that allows this ? I am currently fighting a red light ticket and I would like more information on this
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Old 08-25-17, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by KingCat
can you please cite the law in California that allows this ? I am currently fighting a red light ticket and I would like more information on this
Depends on where you live. You'll need to look up your local City code and see if they have a provision for a dear red.
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Old 08-25-17, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by raqball
Depends on where you live. You'll need to look up your local City code and see if they have a provision for a dear red.


Then what city law allows you to run dead reds ?
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Old 08-25-17, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KingCat
can you please cite the law in California that allows this ? I am currently fighting a red light ticket and I would like more information on this
Law section
(d)1
(d) (1) The driver of any vehicle approaching an intersection which has official traffic control signals that are inoperative shall stop at the intersection, and may proceed with caution when it is safe to do so.
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Old 08-25-17, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
Law section
(d)1
[/FONT]

I am aware of that code and I have also read that judges routinely say that does NOT qualify as a "dead red" law unless the signal is truly non operative, i.e broken.
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Old 08-25-17, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KingCat
I am aware of that code and I have also read that judges routinely say that does NOT qualify as a "dead red" law unless the signal is truly non operative, i.e broken.
Of course the light has to be no operative for it to apply. Non-operative can also mean that your bike does not trigger the sensor.

You need to look at your city code. They can add to the law but not take away. They could have added you must wait a specific amount of time before the light is considered dead.

Your local law(s) will answer your question. If they don't specifically address dead red then what the state law says applies.

Last edited by raqball; 08-25-17 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 08-25-17, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kickstart

In the instance of a shared public asset with rules for it's use, the ability of the individual to do something with little risk isn't the only consideration in question.
In some cases and places, there local considerations that must be taken into account. There are a lot of street corners in New Orleans where you don't stop any longer than you have to, especially after dark. When it comes to safety, traffic is not the sole consideration.
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Old 08-25-17, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sweeks
Unfortunately, at least in Chicago, there is virtually no enforcement of traffic laws directed at cyclists. So as a bicyclist, you could expect to break the rules without incident even in front of the police. Based on my observations in traffic, cyclists who follow the rules are in the minority compared to those who do what they please because they know it's almost certain they won't be hassled.
Steve
I'd generalize this even further. Most of us don't live under a continuous police presence. I've rarely seen a police car in my neighborhood. Most people break rules all the time: Pedestrians jaywalk, motorists exceed the speed limit, etc.

In my view, even without rules, the behavior of cyclists is likely to be guided by common sense and self preservation. I don't need a rule to tell me not to collide with another cyclist.
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Old 08-25-17, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by raqball
Of course the light has to be no operative for it to apply. Non-operative can also mean that the weight of your bike does not trigger the pressure sensor..
I think you mean the conductivity of your rims. Get them over the inductive sensor.
If my bike is lined up properly on the sensor and the light goes thru a full cycle without triggering for me, then it is inoperable for me.
However if the sensor is ignored or one doesn't wait to find out if it works, then one can't claim it is inoperable.
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Old 08-25-17, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
I think you mean the conductivity of your rims. Get them over the inductive sensor.
If my bike is lined up properly on the sensor and the light goes thru a full cycle without triggering for me, then it is inoperable for me.
However if the sensor is ignored or one doesn't wait to find out if it works, then one can't claim it is inoperable.
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