JoeyBike

Or as I have stated it a million times here: Everyone Wins!! (Except those motorists with exceptionally tender and misguided sensibilities).
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Randombiker9

I cycle to college sometimes and I always obey rules as:
1, There's always a lot of police cars around in the morning in my area
2. It's safer
3. Drivers shouldn't get mad at you if you obey the rules.

Rje58

Generally speaking, I do stop for traffic lights and stop signs, but your post prompted me to add this:

Most of my riding is done on rural roads and rural residential areas. There are some stop signs in these residential areas where I have a clear line of sight for at least 1/4 mile, usually more. The speed limit on these roads is 35 mph or less. If I stop at one of these stop signs and wait for a car to go by, I may have to wait 30 minutes or more to see one - depending on the time of day.

So when I'm cruising toward a stop sign in a rural residential area, my line of sight is clear and far in all directions, the speed limit on all intersecting roads is 35 mph or less, no cars in sight or sound... why would I come to a complete stop at a stop sign? It's not just that I have a long, clear line of sight - which I do - but traffic can be so sparse here at times that cars are scarce.

Now, when I'm coming down to the next connecting road, the speed limit on that crossing road is 45 mph and my clear line of sight only about 800 feet - you better believe I stop!!

Some of this is common sense... right? There is no "one size fits all, this is the right way to do it - EVERY TIME", except in some people's minds.

JoeyBike

Hahahahahaha! Good one!

JoeyBike

My point was: If a dog, cat, monkey, or rat can figure out how to cross a busy street it should be well within the mental capabilities of higher primates, apes and humans. Yet some here find it impossible to negotiate a small distance without some colored light commanding them.

Also remember that for every red-light runner that creates an accident in an intersection there was a green light runner involved who THOUGHT it was safe because some stupid light lit up a certain color. Obeying every law has little impact on your safety out there. Ask the dead guy in the T-Boned Smart Car crossing on a green light who got crushed by the Ford Explorer running a red. Ask him how safe it is to let some colored light tell us when it is safe.

Colnago Mixte

Cyclist in Court: "Your honor, I identify as a rat. Therefore your silly traffic laws do not apply to me. You can't touch me!" * maniacal laughter *

Judge: "Sir, I've had the DA look into this, he's been researching for days, and he can't find any precedent for convicting a rat of running a red light. While I find your logic rather unorthodox, your attire unconventional, and your smell revolting, I simply don't have any authority to convict you of running that red light or of anything else. Case reluctantly dismissed."

wphamilton

Some days, when I leave work at just the wrong time traffic is backed up almost half a mile to the next stop light. I roll by on the right where there's maybe 3 feet from the fog line to curb, passing mostly stationary cars. I'm pretty sure that some of them are fuming about me acting privileged passing like that when they have to give more room in a pass. And then on occasion I don't feel up to eagle-eyeing every front tire for signs they're going to squeeze me, or dealing with a few who have drifted over, and those days I take the adjacent sidewalk at, I'll admit, a somewhat higher speed. No doubt that annoys some people even more (judging by anonymous complaining on the internet).

But I think those ARE special privileges for bicyclists, and I'm long past being concerned with what drivers think about it. I've gotten to the point where stop signs are like that. I still don't blow through them full speed, but to me they just say "yield" and the only effect I have on drivers that way is in getting out of their way a little faster. Top of a T intersection when it's clear, with a red light, same thing. I'm sure that some drivers get miffed at the brazen idea of it, some don't care and a few probably wish they were on a bike so they could do that. I see that as more of a personal issue on their part, and I don't have any particular obligation to them regarding how they see it.

noisebeam

I did say I obey all traffic law. I just recalled a near daily exception. There is a T-intersection on which the stem is not built out and it is blocked by K-rails. There is no cross walk or even ability for crossing unless someone hops the K-rail. But there is a light there that is on a timer and not disabled as it technically should be. I run that one.

Digital_Cowboy

And CC I have read far TOO many accounts from members here who have stated that they exercise THEIR version of the Idaho stop, NOT the actual Idaho stop, BUT their INTERPRETATION of it. And again, I have also witnessed far too many cyclists locally who do not stop for a red light they just go through it.

Or at best they take the description of the Idaho stop i.e. treat red lights like stop signs and stop signs like yield signs. And just barely yield at red lights.

So I am sorry, but you'll not convince me that it is a good thing nationwide. As trust me on the roads that I can normally be found on IF I dared to attempt an Idaho stop I wouldn't survive or at least not for very long.

Digital_Cowboy

Comminya,

Thank you very much.

canklecat

You say that a lot. I'm beginning to have doubts.

FBinNY 

Some people are overly obsessed with what others do.

They may feel, rightly or wrongly, that it's important because it reflects on and affects everybody. I don't agree, but am not going here. But I will say that I think the way they are going about it isn't likely to change anybody's minds or attitudes.

Digital_Cowboy

Agreed, in my case 1. doesn't really apply some days I seldom see any police and then some days it seems as if I see one "on every corner." 2., I totally agree., 3. NO, it shouldn't, but sadly there is a small minority that no matter what we do that will be "mad" that we are on "their" roads.

I think that they need a history lesson into why the roads in this country were improved. And newsflash for them, it wasn't for the automobile, it was for us cyclists. That and the various funds that they are under the mistaken impression that pays for the roads is a mere drop in the bucket and that the bulk of the funds comes from the general funds which we all pay into.

But the real irony is that if we stop and think about it, is that even IF the funds that it seems as if the "average motorist" thinks that pays for the coasts of the roads did do so. That even those of us who do not own a car and/or drivers license still at least indirectly pay those fees as well. As when we go shopping I can guarantee ya that the stores know exactly how much that they pay in those assorted fees and that they do pass them on to the consumer.

Digital_Cowboy

Joey,

You have clearly missed the point. It was NOT "dangerous" for the driver of the Smart car to go through the green light. It was DANGEROUS for the driver of the Ford Explorer to BLOW through the red light as IF the laws did NOT apply him. So had it NOT been for that entitled driver of the Ford Explorer the driver of the Smart car would still be alive.

Digital_Cowboy

Exactly, there is no reason, and I think/hope that in most cities that one can now take their bike with them "on" the bus, i.e. placing it in a bike rack on the front of the bus.

Sadly, where I live if I were to take the local bus system to the local VA. It would take a significant amount of time and involve THREE buses. With the longest wait between buses being some 30-minutes. And if one didn't have at the very least a daily bus pass, or preferable a week/ten day or monthly bus pass it'd also cost almost $7.00 one-way or almost $14.00 round trip as it would require a total of six buses round trip.

I usually make the trip on my bike in about an hour and half total rolling time.

And sadly, none of the buses involved run on the same schedule. One bus runs every 15 minutes or so, the next one runs every hour or so, and the last one I think runs ever 30 minutes or so.

I'd have to say that it seems as if they're trying to discourage people from using the bus.

JoeyBike

Explorer driver just wasn't paying attention. Not entitled. People make mistakes.

It is HIGHLY dangerous to believe that crossing on a green light is safe. I get the point. You totally missed the point. Traffic lights merely establish right of way in the event of an accident so authorities know who to blame. Crossing on a green is NOT safe, never, ever. Not in the real world I live in. Maybe you live Mayberry, or OZ, or Munchin Land. Oh wait...a house dropped out of the sky on some unsuspecting witch there didn't it?

Crossing a street is not rocket science. Look both ways CAREFULLY. Then go when it is safe. Trust that light and good luck.

Gresp15C

Amusing article:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...traffic-lights

Digital_Cowboy

Sadly, Joey, you are still not getting it. The ONLY bloody reason that it wasn't "safe" for the driver of the Smart car to go through the intersection on a green light is because the driver of the Ford Explorer thought that he or she didn't have to give driving their full attention. That comes from a sense of entitlement. And as we can see that "mistake" cost another person their life.

JoeyBike

Your responses have nicely illustrated every point I made. Some here live in and ride in some alternate universe, likely inside their own heads. The REAL world, where people are mean, stupid, or just make mistakes is where I live. Reality is that trusting a light with your life is not wise. Twist that anyway you like. You do win the last word contest. Congrats. I am done.

Randombiker9

Thanks and yeah I like how you say their because some drivers think they own the road but all road users share the road.

Randombiker9

EXCEPT IN UK Never seen bike rack on buses in towns/city's here.

Digital_Cowboy

Joey,

Given your penchant for for running red lights and stop signs thinking that it is the "safest" thing to do. It is no wonder that you are blaming the victim.

The driver of the Smart car didn't do anything wrong when they were hit and killed. ALL of the blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the person who was driving the Ford Explorer and NOWHERE else. Had that driver been paying attention to the driving of a VERY dangerous weapon then the driver of the Smart car would STILL be ALIVE today. This was NOT a "mistake" this is a case of vehicular manslaughter and gross negligence.

That you are saying that it was somehow "unsafe" for the driver of the Smart car to trust the traffic lights and blame them for their death is very insensitive. I hope that the driver of the Ford Explorer has to serve the maximum sentence that can be imposed.

The bottom line is that this was not a "mistake." And that the driver of the Smart car would STILL be alive if the driver of the Ford Explorer had been paying attention and had stopped at the red light as is required by the LAW.

It is because of drivers like the one who was driving the Ford Explorer that I can not and will never support the Idaho stop law.

elocs

In my city of 50,000 there is a busy 4 lane street just a block from me that has 2 of those horizontal, flashing yellow pedestrian crossing lights that come on immediately when you press the button.
There is one 2 miles down the road from me that connects a MUP. Now there is a traffic light just a block down so when I get to this light, since I'm in no hurry, I wait until the traffic from my left is stopped for the red light and I press the button and it immediately starts flashing. Now when I did this there was no traffic coming from my right either but when I got through the first 2 lanes on my left and was near the middle a pickup on my right blew right through the light. Had I ridden faster and not been looking I would surely have been hit. It's risky enough to cross when you have a green light unless you pay attention much less these yellow crossing lights because for too many drivers a yellow light means speed up, so that's what they do.
I am responsible for my own safety but I am much more likely to remain safe if I obey the traffic laws and proceed with caution rather than full speed ahead on my bike hoping to live by my own rules.

SHBR

This tends to be my logic as well, good luck causing a traffic accident when you are the only person on the road.

Zurichman2

I live in rural Pa. what traffic lights. Road hazards Amish road apples/red neck diesel truck owners and drunks likely to hit you at night on the road. Been there dun that in Jan and why I have turned somewhat to gravel riding.

Zman