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Old 09-06-17, 08:28 PM   #26
coominya
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How about all bikes being sold for riders < 5'5" be configured by default for small riders.
Good idea, provided there are no people out there with tall bodies but petite hands?
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Old 09-06-17, 08:32 PM   #27
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IMO this simply another example of the blame spreading we see too much of in modern culture.

I start by noting that "may have contributed" is about as weak an assignment of blame as can be expressed in English,
Yes, hardy worth bothering about. Don't know why I even commented above. If you believe in evolution then you must believe Darwin's law is simply at work.
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Old 09-06-17, 09:36 PM   #28
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No I disagree. You could see a lot of deaths in the mean time. Instead how about a big sticker wrapped around the brake lever of every new bike sold warning that they must be adjusted to suit the rider.
A) How many brake levers can be adjusted for reach? Aside from higher-end road bike levers and the occasional set of expensive disc levers on a nice MTB, I haven't seen any. Definitely not on any Kent product, and I'd be very surprised if those don't account for 75+% of new bike sales in the US.
B) If you're over about 12, and don't know you need to be able to reach the brakes on a bike, then let Darwin do his job.
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Old 09-06-17, 09:40 PM   #29
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I don't know if they put warning stickers on them here in the USA. I quit buying them well over 10 years ago when the person on the other end of a long bungee let go and I got hit square in the chest.
Print the below out, and tape it inside your front door:

WARNING: MORONS AND IMBECILES ABOUND. DO NOT TRUST THEM TO HELP YOU WITH DANGEROUS TASKS.
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Old 09-06-17, 09:50 PM   #30
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I'm sure they'd probably think that settling one or two lawsuits out of court would be cheaper in the long run than hiring competent people to assemble their bikes. Settling one case for, say, $30,000 is still cheaper than hiring someone at $9 an hour for each one of their stores across the country.
One case, sure, but a series of people following the precedent would get really expensive really quickly.

Just wandering through the local WM lately, I spotted at least 10 bikes with assembly issues. Brakes not attached or adjusted right, forks backward, wheels mounted wrong, etc. I suspect it's safe to assume each store with bikes sells at least a couple of dangerous ones every year. So, assuming only 50% of people take advantage of a clear precedent and hit WM up for (at least) $30k each, (and they'd be fools to settle for less than at least actual medical costs, which can easily hit triple digits on a faceplant with serious dental damage) that means it'd be cheaper to have a $14/hr full time, well trained bike assembler at each store. Even if they didn't want to do that, one for every 3-4 stores with a company vehicle could probably keep up in most areas.

(Of course, anyone can make mistakes, but we're talking corporate liability here; paying a well trained pro to put something together, who misses a torque spec is an accident, while having Billy the marginally-functionally-intelligent toy department guy put together a potentially dangerous item wrong is grossly negligent.)
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Old 09-07-17, 11:01 AM   #31
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I don't know if they put warning stickers on them [bungee cords] here in the USA.
Tag on bungee I own:

_____________________________
!WARNING!

1. WEAR PROTECTIVE EYEWEAR when stretching, fastening, or releasing hooks. 2. Keep face and other vulnerable body parts away from potential cord rebound path. 3. Do not stretch cord beyond 50% of it's unstretched length. 4. Secure hooks carefully. Do not anchor the hook by it's tip. 5. Do not use to hold any surface which reacts to wind or air movement i.e., plywood, mattress.
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I used to work at a store that sold Rubber Rope (fancy, expensive, adjustable bungees). Printed right on the rubber strips it said: "Warning - Snapback may cause serious injury!"
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Old 09-10-17, 08:45 AM   #32
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Disc Brakes
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Old 09-10-17, 09:59 AM   #33
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How about all bikes being sold for riders < 5'5" be configured by default for small riders. There'd be a few exceptions, but set them right by default then deal with the outliers (racers on small frames with everything custom?)
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Well now you are just assuming small height means small hands. That is not true by any stretch of the imagination.
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Good idea, provided there are no people out there with tall bodies but petite hands?
As far as body size, I am much shorter than average and when I was at my absolute skinniest, 115 lbs, my hands and wrists were nearly twice as broad as the hands and wrists of many slender women of average to slightly above average height. So hand size doesn't correlate to height very well.
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Old 09-11-17, 07:17 PM   #34
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A) How many brake levers can be adjusted for reach? Aside from higher-end road bike levers and the occasional set of expensive disc levers on a nice MTB, I haven't seen any. Definitely not on any Kent product, and I'd be very surprised if those don't account for 75+% of new bike sales in the US.
B) If you're over about 12, and don't know you need to be able to reach the brakes on a bike, then let Darwin do his job.
Can't remember if I posted it here or not as it was a few years ago. Anyhow I was cycling uphill along my local cycle track, it's quite steep. The track runs parallel to the highway and the traffic is coming towards you if you are going downhill. There's a gap on the track that gives access to the road for farm vehicles and train track crews.

As I'm cresting the hill coming up I hear a man scream "brake! brake! the brakes! the brakes!" And this 12 or 13 year old boy zooms past me in a panic and almost ends up on the highway into oncoming traffic before he hit the brakes. Both were really shaken.

The Dad had bought his boy and himself some shiny new road bikes and obviously hadn't bothered to do basic bike skills together like stopping. The bike could have been to big too, I can't really remember.

I don't blame the kid, the likelihood is as with a lot of kids these days he'd probably had very little experience of riding bikes. In the 60's and 70's we started cycling from three years old. It's not a Darwin issue if over protective parents are not letting their kids ride bikes to gain the skills to ride safely.

Also I used to teach cycle skills to adults, the skills that you and me take for granted isn't shared by everyone and it actually takes a lot of guts for someone to admit they are fairly clueless about cycling.
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Old 09-11-17, 07:54 PM   #35
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Disc Brakes
Yes the rational solution, but style often wins out against rationality.
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Old 09-12-17, 10:53 AM   #36
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Sad situation, but it goes to show the importance of ALWAYS maintaining your equipment properly (including fitting and setup) and riding within your limits.

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Disc Brakes
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Yes the rational solution, but style often wins out against rationality.
I have no idea how the style of brakes affects the rider's hands not being able to actuate levers too big for her. My disc brake levers are probably the biggest levers I have and take quite a bit more effort (relatively) to use than my smaller V-brake levers.
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Old 09-12-17, 11:31 AM   #37
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There's a perfectly good solution to having bikes not properly adjusted for you. Don't buy them at department stores. Get them at bike shops.
Or, legislate that the department stores have to pay the same attention to detail as the bike shops. Then department store bikes will cost the same, or they'll just stop selling bikes.

Either way, result.


People buy Walmart bikes and have them assembled and serviced by the LBS here...
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Old 09-13-17, 11:59 AM   #38
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Disc Brakes
So disk brake levers are different than rim brake levers? The supposition by the coroner or whoever, was that the Brake levers were not made for small hands.

Last edited by Iride01; 09-13-17 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 09-13-17, 12:27 PM   #39
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Also I used to teach cycle skills to adults, the skills that you and me take for granted isn't shared by everyone and it actually takes a lot of guts for someone to admit they are fairly clueless about cycling.
I find that few people want to talk in depth about safety on any subject. How many people can you discuss the proper use of acceleration or deceleration lanes with that won't get offended that you are implying they don't know how to drive. Then they immediately end the conversation with a smart quip or simply refuse to discuss it. I'm sure many people buying bikes think there are no safety concerns that wasn't taught to them when they where five years old trying to learn how to ride without training wheels.

Many feel that their formal education gives them all the info they need. Actually formal education just gives a person the minimum information they need to function at an acceptable level in the area they are interested in.
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Old 09-13-17, 01:04 PM   #40
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Peole with small hands should consider a 8spd Nexus IGH with coaster brake.
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Old 09-13-17, 01:33 PM   #41
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. My disc brake levers are probably the biggest levers I have and take quite a bit more effort (relatively) to use than my smaller V-brake levers.
Do you have mechanical discs? Mine are super stoppy, the rear more effective that the front for a given amount of pressure oddly enough.
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Old 09-13-17, 01:35 PM   #42
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. My disc brake levers are probably the biggest levers I have and take quite a bit more effort (relatively) to use than my smaller V-brake levers.
Do you have mechanical discs? My hydraulics are super stoppy, the rear more effective that the front for a given amount of pressure oddly enough.
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Old 09-13-17, 01:53 PM   #43
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Do you have mechanical discs? Mine are super stoppy, the rear more effective that the front for a given amount of pressure oddly enough.
Mechanical. They're as stoppy as the V-brakes if pulling from the drops, but when riding on the hoods my hands just don't have the leverage as I am pulling near the fulcrum, not at the end of the lever like I am on the flat bat Vs.

I have no problem admitting I have hands on the smaller side.

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Old 09-13-17, 02:04 PM   #44
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My SO short/petite with small hands. We've been plagued with fitting issues.

As for brakes/brifters, most of them are designed to fit the average person. Sadly, there no other sizes. We would push the adjustment screw all the way as far as possible just for hand reach. Sometimes if there are no adjustment or short screws we make our own shims to push them further. Doing this means the lever is super close to the bar and brake clearance gets pretty tight. Getting a thinner/narrower handlebar with minimal padding helps.
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Old 09-13-17, 06:50 PM   #45
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Mechanical. They're as stoppy as the V-brakes if pulling from the drops, but when riding on the hoods my hands just don't have the leverage as I am pulling near the fulcrum, not at the end of the lever like I am on the flat bat Vs.

I have no problem admitting I have hands on the smaller side.
Got it. I should have said, mine are hydraulic disks, mineral oil ones. I have never ridden mechanical as I went straight from V to Hyd. I imagine there is a noticeable difference.
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Old 09-13-17, 06:57 PM   #46
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Got it. I should have said, mine are hydraulic disks, mineral oil ones. I have never ridden mechanical as I went straight from V to Hyd. I imagine there is a noticeable difference.
I've ridden hydros, they're much nicer. Definitely would be the first component upgrade I'd consider for this bike.

My argument was strictly in relation to the size/shape of these particular disc levers. When on top of the hoods, it is hard for me to stretch my hands far enough to get good leverage on the levers. I've got enough strength to overcome that without much concern, but it isn't hard for me to understand how someone my height who bought that bike with smaller/weaker hands could have serious issues.
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Old 09-14-17, 09:48 AM   #47
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Peole with small hands should consider a 8spd Nexus IGH with coaster brake.
Or a spinning class.
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Old 09-14-17, 03:51 PM   #48
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but it isn't hard for me to understand how someone my height who bought that bike with smaller/weaker hands could have serious issues.
Yes well racers with drops are designed for speed and the braking arrangements are a secondary consideration no doubt. I owned one once myself and was singularly unimpressed with it's ability to stop. It was mainly to do with the narrow tires, too easy to lose traction but the lever arrangement didn't impress me either.
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Old 09-17-17, 06:01 PM   #49
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First of all I hate to hear of a fellow cyclist being killed.

There are many different points that have been made that may contributed to the death. How the bike was maintained maybe should be added into the mix.
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