Ninety5rpm

Amazing. Saw this on social media.

Cyclist on shoulder swerves towards shoulder stripe to avoid glass and points it out and while just right of the stripe with one hand on the bars is passed by a bus which was probably in compliance with the 3 foot law before the swerve, but not after. Cyclist is sucked into travel lane next to bus, somehow isn't hit, and blasted as bus passes, but he pulls it out without crashing.

Is bus driver to be blamed for not accounting for last-second swerve by cyclist? He couldn't change lanes due to car in left lane. What was he to do? Slow down and reduce air effect on cyclist?

Is cyclist to be blamed for not looking back before swerving for glass that he barely noticed? He stayed within the shoulder.

Are cyclists to be blamed for riding two abreast? That looks like a pretty wide shoulder, and it's not illegal to ride two abreast on a shoulder (this is California).

Crazy. Check it out.

(NOTE: VIDEO IS NO LONGER THERE)


https://vimeo.com/235829159

CliffordK

One thing that I always do is look back before/when I swerve. I hear the cyclist yelling, but never see his head turn as he swerves towards the traffic lane.

I don't think I've felt "sucking" like that, but if there was a strong crosswind, then a sudden lack of crosswind could throw a person off balance. As the bus is passing, the cyclist is leaning towards it with the only remedy being a "counter-steer" so the large swerve behind the bus was a maneuver to regain his balance. Luckily there wasn't someone tailgating.

Is that a freeway? I hate riding on freeways, or roads resembling them, and generally choose to ride as far away from traffic as possible. I.E. I'd be reluctant to ride side-by-side.

brianmcg123

Wow. He got lucky.

Those are some terrible roads to ride on. I'm lucky I live in the sticks and can go 40 miles and not have 2 cars pass me.

canklecat

My first thought was "I wouldn't ride two abreast in that situation."

Then I remembered a somewhat comparable situation where I have ridden two abreast.

There's a wide, two-lane access road many of us ride west of Fort Worth. It goes for miles with little vehicular traffic. Wide shoulder but occasionally littered with debris. So most of us will switch between riding the shoulder and taking the rightmost lane, as appropriate for conditions.

The problem is that while most vehicles obey the moderate speed limit for that access road, some drivers use it as their personal speedway for driving 70-90 mph. That's enough to cause turbulence even with a smaller vehicle.

I'm not sure there's a clear answer to the situation in that video that would eliminate hazards. Even riding single file, if there's enough debris on the shoulder a single rider might need to veer toward the margin between the shoulder and rightmost lane. Same thing could have happened with passing bus or truck.

For a cycling group where it's legal to ride two abreast in a traffic lane, it might be better to take the lane rather than riding a shoulder where broken glass and debris from blown out truck tires, etc., is a common hazard.

flangehead

OP, thanks for sharing this. I know in my head that big fast things can pull me in but that video helps my heart feel it.

The cyclist recovered skillfully but was also very fortunate.

This reinforces for me the importance of situational awareness. I don't pack ride but I am on roads with high speeds and less shoulder. I use mirrors and my practice is to wave to the large vehicle operator when they are about 100 feet back then make sure I've got a good grip with both hands when they pass. For me, mirrors are a key part of maintaining situational awareness.

Also, most of my large vehicles are semi-trailers and school buses that have a lot more clearance between the road and the bottom of the vehicle. That "Greyhound" in the video is a huge amount of fast-moving flat that extends almost down the ground.. and I suspect it generates a lower pressure than I normally feel with semis.

I'm going to be very ready in the future when I see a "Greyhound" behind me.

GamblerGORD53

I call BULL. Buses can't suck anything.
I was in Vietnam and came upon road works with maybe 21 or 22 feet of old pavement and a foot high crushed rock ramp to the right. A couple hundred yards ahead, a tour bus pulled out to pass another tour bus. I was too late getting to the right, so I waved at him to get over. Didn't happen, they squeezed by me at 50+ mph. I hugged the last 6" by the rocks. The wind did nothing, but then me and the bike were 290 lbs. ha

B. Carfree

I'm late to the party so the video is already gone. In answer to the question of what the bus driver should do, he should do what every professional driver should be taught (and all of the drivers I have ever worked with were taught this): When there is a cyclist, give enough space so that if there is a mishap, you don't lose half your workday dealing with the mess. In this case, that might have meant changing lanes before the bus came upon the cyclists.

When I'm driving a big rig, I will slow down in town where there are door-zone bike lanes and inexperienced riders are actually riding in the door zone. It's faster overall to never hit a doored cyclist than to be the first vehicle at the next red light a few times. Out of town, I'll wait until I can take the adjacent lane to pass so that if the cyclist falls over, I still won't hit him/her. Interestingly enough, that's actually the law in Oregon, though it's not enforced.

CliffordK

That is kind of what I thought. I get passed by trucks and log trucks periodically and don't remember sucking. Perhaps behind the truck.

As mentioned above, if there is a cross wind, the bus can block the wind, and thus change the dynamics the rider is riding in.

The other thing is the concept of counter steering. I.E. If one is leaning towards the bus for some reason, then the only course of action to recover is to steer towards the bus, which obviously isn't an option until after it had already passed. Thus, an attempt to avoid a collision might give the appearance of falling towards the bus.

I'm glad to see that the bus saw the near collision and stopped to verify everyone was OK.

vol

That's one of the things that concern me when riding: suddenly seeing glass, metal shavings, pothole or other hazard on the ground and having to swerve around it when there may be vehicle behind. Having mirrors is not very helpful then.

CliffordK

I did download the video in fairly high res, if only BikeForums would host 24 MB files. But, I also see no comments as to why the video was deleted. Perhaps either the bus owner or the cycling team chose to have it removed.

The two cyclists in the film appear to be experienced riders (matching "kit"), riding side by side and casually talking. There is probably at least one more rider behind them. They appear to be riding on the shoulder of a limited access 2x2 divided highway, but probably not a full freeway. Cars are probably traveling around 55 MPH.

The rider to the left yells "glass" and points to his right while swerving left, right to the fog line while never looking back. Actually, he crosses the fog line just as the bus's mirror passes him.

He is clearly leaning left as the bus passes, then once passed, he swerves 100% across the right lane to the edge of the left lane before recovering and returning to the shoulder.

CliffordK

Having mirrors (or looking back and listening) is helpful as it helps one decide whether to swerve, or to go over the glass and accept the risk of a flat.

Or, cycling alone, I've frequently just slammed on the brakes, let the traffic clear, then gone around the glass, but such an action wouldn't be as safe in a large group.

Ninety5rpm

It would be great for the norm to be exactly that - drivers should change lanes when passing cyclists, even when the cyclists are on the shoulder. But that's certainly not the norm now.

Ninety5rpm

Yeah, I'm not sure "sucking" is the most accurate description. It's entirely possible the air being pushed away from the bus pushed the cyclist over to the right, who steered right and then over-corrected turning left.

One thing is for sure: when the bus completed the pass something dramatically in the air changed again causing the cyclist to swerve all over the place.

Ninety5rpm

Yeah, that swerving at the end was wild. Do you notice he even unclips to put a foot down and keep from falling?

elocs

Just because something is legal to do doesn't make it smart to do. But then we do have cyclists who have the attitude of "nobody is going to tell me what to do if it's legal" attitude.

Ninety5rpm

Of course. For example, it's legal to ride in door zones of parked cars, but it's not smart.

That said, what's not smart about riding two abreast on that shoulder? The position of the cyclist on the left is pretty typical for cyclists riding solo or in single file (generally there is more debris further away from the travel lane), so what difference would it make?

Chris0516

The cyclist was incredibly lucky. While bike lanes may(or may not) be mandated as to using them. Instead of using the travel lane. What isn't mandated, but almost always happens. Is some sort of garbage is thrown/put in the bike lane(I even saw a dead animal once).

So, in that situation, I would have let the bus pass.

elocs

No, it's not smart to ride 2 abreast in every situation even if it is legal, especially when you are in the midst of cars, trucks, or buses moving at speed. Most of riding safe as a cyclist is the ability to scope out your riding situation and you don't ride the same in every situation. You ask yourself, "is this a safe way to ride" and riding 2 abreast in that situation is not safe.

That being said, I've ridden bikes for 58 years now and I just don't get the appeal of riding 2 abreast. Lonely?
Need someone to talk with. No thanks, I ride single file if anything but I prefer the most to ride alone.

Ninety5rpm

I agree with your first paragraph in general but don't see how it applies to this particular situation.

Riding two abreast is certainly a personal preference. But again, I don't understand the safety concern. I've been riding almost as long as you (almost fifty years), and much of that two abreast. That's a very wide shoulder as far as shoulders go, and riding two abreast there is quite common. I don't see how it played a role in this crash.

Ninety5rpm

He did not get in the way of the bus passing.

elocs

I would look at it this way: In what situation or situations does riding 2 abreast make you safer when riding anywhere?

Chris0516

Well, The OP said the cyclist almost went under the bus, when avoiding the glass in the bike lane.

CliffordK

Too bad the original video was pulled.

In the video, the cyclist never looked back before swerving, nor did he apparently have a mirror, so he was riding as if he had the whole road to himself. I.E. without looking for the bus, there was no just letting it pass.

These were the two lead riders in the group, but I presume there was at least a third rider behind carrying the camera, maybe more. Thus, a sudden stop might be even more dangerous.

Riding solo, if I find myself squeezed in with traffic and glass, I'll just stop, let the cars past, then get going again, but that probably wasn't an option.

The other choice is to just run over the glass and hope for the best (and stay alive).

The swerve at the end after the bus passed was to recover from leaning towards the bus while it passed. But, again, without knowing about the traffic around himself, the cyclist was very lucky.

Paul Barnard

There are times when the minimum legal passing clearance is the only option. But when I am driving I always do my level best to give vulnerable road users as much clearance as I reasonably can.

Paul Barnard

Let me address your question with another question to try to steer you toward a possible answer. When motorists run over bicyclists, the number one reason is (fill in the blank) "I didn't ______ him."