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Nicky Hayden....earbuds

Old 09-30-17, 04:07 PM
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bruce19
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Nicky Hayden....earbuds

Italian Investigators Release Findings into the death of Nicky Hayden - Cycle News
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Old 09-30-17, 04:46 PM
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Nothing whatsoever to do with earbuds. Hayden rolled a stop and was struck by a speeding driver. I have 48 hours of ride time on my new bike, and about 44 hours of that with headphones on the entire time. Listening to music is not inherently unsafe. Running a stop sign at a blind intersection is unsafe.
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Old 09-30-17, 05:22 PM
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Anything that can prevent you from hearing vehicles is absolutely unsafe. To argue otherwise is actually comical.
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Old 09-30-17, 05:35 PM
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Then the most unsafe thing in existence is the wind, because most of what's going into my ears on any given ride is wind noise, and it blocks out most everything. Maybe I should ride more slowly, stop that devil wind from impairing my hearing. Over 90% of the riders I see out on the roads on a daily basis have earbuds in. It's clearly some kind of miracle they aren't all dead.
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Old 09-30-17, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Anything that can prevent you from hearing vehicles is absolutely unsafe. To argue otherwise is actually comical.
Yep, ban all deaf people from ever riding bikes on the road. Can't let the handicapped put themselves in any sort of danger, eh?
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Old 09-30-17, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Anything that can prevent you from hearing vehicles is absolutely unsafe. To argue otherwise is actually comical.
Agree 100%. Utilizing all of one's senses is essential while riding.

Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Yep, ban all deaf people from ever riding bikes on the road. Can't let the handicapped put themselves in any sort of danger, eh?
Deaf people can't help not hearing, people wearing earbuds can.

Last edited by one4smoke; 09-30-17 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 09-30-17, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Yep, ban all deaf people from ever riding bikes on the road. Can't let the handicapped put themselves in any sort of danger, eh?
How is deafness even pertinent to this discussion? Let me get this straight: You infer that if devices that limit hearing are banned or outlawed, that will lead to deaf people being prohibited from riding bikes? Personally, I find that ridiculous.
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Old 09-30-17, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rowan View Post
Yep, ban all deaf people from ever riding bikes on the road. Can't let the handicapped put themselves in any sort of danger, eh?
That's all you could come up with?
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Old 09-30-17, 06:37 PM
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I walk a lot (30 mi. this mo.) and I always wear earbuds. I do lot of extra visual checks to make up for not hearing my surroundings. I have forgotten a couple of times and been surprised by cars. I choose not to wear my earbuds while riding to simplify riding safely. There are workarounds for not hearing your surroundings.
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Old 09-30-17, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Then the most unsafe thing in existence is the wind, because most of what's going into my ears on any given ride is wind noise, and it blocks out most everything. Maybe I should ride more slowly, stop that devil wind from impairing my hearing. Over 90% of the riders I see out on the roads on a daily basis have earbuds in. It's clearly some kind of miracle they aren't all dead.
I spent four years in ground combat in a rifle platoon. It must have been safe since I'm alive. And we all know when we ride there's always a 25mph headwind blocking out the noise
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Old 09-30-17, 07:28 PM
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Would Nicky have heard the cross traffic and stopped instead of running the stop sign? We'll never know for sure but this seems unlikely. It's not prudent to run a stop at a blind intersection in any situation, earbuds or not.

I don't do earbuds myself. My biggest issue is with earbud wearers walking, running, weaving on the right side of MUP trails. Riding up from behind they are completely unaware of my presence and I have no way to communicate with them. Would be safer if they walked on the left so they could see the traffic on their side of the path. This also happens to a lesser extent with cyclists who can't/don't hold their line while plugged in. Earbuds aren't so much of an issue for an experienced rider like @DrIsotope and the very few riders who might pass him.

I do think earbuds are a really bad idea when riding in close quarters in a group.
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Old 09-30-17, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
Anything that can prevent you from hearing vehicles is absolutely unsafe. To argue otherwise is actually comical.

Exactly !!
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Old 09-30-17, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Hayden rolled a stop and was struck by a speeding driver.
And this is the important part. Speed limits are generally set for a reason, particularly on stretches of road with intersections, curves, hills, etc. 15+ MPH over the speed limit will net a reckless driving ticket in many US states along with a significant number of points against one's license.

Earbuds probably don't help, but that's besides the point.
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Old 09-30-17, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Nothing whatsoever to do with earbuds. Hayden rolled a stop and was struck by a speeding driver. I have 48 hours of ride time on my new bike, and about 44 hours of that with headphones on the entire time. Listening to music is not inherently unsafe. Running a stop sign at a blind intersection is unsafe.
I don't often ask the question "are you stupid"? But there you have it.

Listening to music while riding a bike is inherently unsafe; it is utterly, completely, and stupidly unsafe, and anyone who claims otherwise is utterly, completely, stupid. And that is why it is, and has been illegal to listen to music via headphones and earbuds while operating a vehicle.

Are we so stupid that we have to be constantly entertained like two-year-old children?

Next to your vision, your ears are your second most important sense when on the road. By the sound, I can tell a car's speed, size, and which lane it is in. If the car is running on the shoulder, I can hear the gravel and sand being kicked up by the tires. I would never, ever, ride a bike while wearing earphones or ear buds.

I used to be a traffic homicide accident investigator in a large American city. Few soldiers in wartime have seen as many bodies as I have. The great majority of those hurt and killed due to drivers being distracted. Listening to music, looking at their phones, putting on their makeup, or lighting a cigarette; they were not paying attention.

Have you ever seen what a cyclist looks like after having been hit by a car or truck? Have you seen how far one's brain can be blown through the vent's of one's bike helmet? Have you ever seen a person's internal organs splattered across three lanes of highway? Have you ever seen legs and arms "ungloved"? I have seen all of these things, and worse. No gun ever created can do as much harm to a human body as a motor vehicle.

Because I know that drivers do not pay attention, I must pay more attention. I am not going to risk my life because I cannot ride a bike without listening to music. For ****'s sake, I am a musician, I practice at least two hours every day, and listen to music for an hour every night before going to bed, but I am not so stupid as to listen while riding.
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Old 09-30-17, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
Nothing whatsoever to do with earbuds. Hayden rolled a stop and was struck by a speeding driver. I have 48 hours of ride time on my new bike, and about 44 hours of that with headphones on the entire time. Listening to music is not inherently unsafe. Running a stop sign at a blind intersection is unsafe.
He was not hit.

He ran into the side of the moving car.


-Tim-
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Old 09-30-17, 08:43 PM
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Who here can tell by hearing a car behind them, just where the car is? It three feet to your left or is it’s headlight lined up with your bike?
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Old 09-30-17, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bmach View Post
Who here can tell by hearing a car behind them, just where the car is? It three feet to your left or is itís headlight lined up with your bike?
Maybe you can't tell exactly where it is, and maybe you can't tell exactly what it is, but at least you're more likely to know it's there. I ride paths a lot and encounter a lot of riders and walkers with earbuds and every one of them is oblivious to what's behind them and, more often than not, oblivious to any warning you give. Stop trying to justify a dangerous practice just to justify your use of it. If you want to take the risk, do so, just don't try to claim you're as safe as someone without earbuds jammed in their ears.
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Old 09-30-17, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
Maybe you can't tell exactly where it is, and maybe you can't tell exactly what it is, but at least you're more likely to know it's there. I ride paths a lot and encounter a lot of riders and walkers with earbuds and every one of them is oblivious to what's behind them and, more often than not, oblivious to any warning you give. Stop trying to justify a dangerous practice just to justify your use of it. If you want to take the risk, do so, just don't try to claim you're as safe as someone without earbuds jammed in their ears.


It just blows my mind people want to justify the use of them while cycling.
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Old 09-30-17, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Lazyass View Post
I spent four years in ground combat in a rifle platoon. It must have been safe since I'm alive. And we all know when we ride there's always a 25mph headwind blocking out the noise
Excessively faulty analogy aside, if you don't think it's safe, don't do it. But don't run around acting like you know things that you don't. Cycling with headphones on does not mean the sky is falling. In my initial post, I wasn't saying it was safe or unsafe, I was stating that earbuds had nothing to do with the accident. Music or not, roll a stop into swift traffic, and you may indeed get struck by a vehicle.

Originally Posted by Sangetsu View Post
I don't often ask the question "are you stupid"? But there you have it.

Listening to music while riding a bike is inherently unsafe; it is utterly, completely, and stupidly unsafe, and anyone who claims otherwise is utterly, completely, stupid. And that is why it is, and has been illegal to listen to music via headphones and earbuds while operating a vehicle.
You're absolutely entitled to you opinion, but don't think it's a fact just because you say it louder. Just like the other guy, if you don't think it's safe, don't do it. But no one appointed you legal guardian for anyone else-- thank you for your unsolicited attempt at public service, but it is neither required nor effective.

Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
He was not hit.

He ran into the side of the moving car.
I've read two different accounts, and seen nothing to that effect. The mention of the driver not applying the brakes prior to the accident is an indication that the car struck the bike, and not the other way around. Also, the frame all but cracked in half is not something that happens when a bike doing 12 mph hits the side of a car doing 45mph. Hayden rolled the stop and was struck from the side, hence the distribution of fault 70% to the driver and 30% to Hayden.
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Old 09-30-17, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post

I've read two different accounts, and seen nothing to that effect. The mention of the driver not applying the brakes prior to the accident is an indication that the car struck the bike, and not the other way around. Also, the frame all but cracked in half is not something that happens when a bike doing 12 mph hits the side of a car doing 45mph. Hayden rolled the stop and was struck from the side, hence the distribution of fault 70% to the driver and 30% to Hayden.

You see nothing to that effect because you didn't read the article linked in the first post.

That he hit the side of the car is the official investigator's findings. The investigator has 30 years experience and his findings are backed up by CCTV footage, eye-witness accounts from nearby road workers, police documentation, and accounts from the driver.

He ran into the side of a car going 45 MPH. Read the article.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 09-30-17 at 10:00 PM.
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Old 09-30-17, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
Maybe you can't tell exactly where it is, and maybe you can't tell exactly what it is, but at least you're more likely to know it's there. I ride paths a lot and encounter a lot of riders and walkers with earbuds and every one of them is oblivious to what's behind them and, more often than not, oblivious to any warning you give. Stop trying to justify a dangerous practice just to justify your use of it. If you want to take the risk, do so, just don't try to claim you're as safe as someone without earbuds jammed in their ears.
Chill out all, I did was ask a question. Never claimed anything else.
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Old 09-30-17, 10:08 PM
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FWIW, with earbuds in on my bicycle I can hear other vehicles more than I can when Iím in my car or on a motorcycle. Both driving and riding are visual activities and sound is next to useless.
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Old 09-30-17, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DrIsotope View Post
You're absolutely entitled to you opinion, but don't think it's a fact just because you say it louder. Just like the other guy, if you don't think it's safe, don't do it. But no one appointed you legal guardian for anyone else-- thank you for your unsolicited attempt at public service, but it is neither required nor effective.
I second DrIsotope. Your goal obviously wasn't to change anyone's behavior. If you were you shot yourself in the foot with your name calling and condescending attitude.

You might have better luck with the auto companies who spend millions designing cars with awesome sound systems and insulating materials to keep sound out. But I doubt it. And I would rather drivers wore ear buds than run their 10,000 watt sound system that you can feel before you ever hear.

I ride with ear buds. Most of the time they are turned off but they do a great job of keeping wind out and allow me to hear BETTER. I sometimes listen to talk radio, I have experimented with volume and have found a sweet spot where I can hear the radio and still hear outside noise better than without ear buds.

But as DrIsotope said, you make your decisions, I'll make mine.
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Old 10-01-17, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
You see nothing to that effect because you didn't read the article linked in the first post.

That he hit the side of the car is the official investigator's findings. The investigator has 30 years experience and his findings are backed up by CCTV footage, eye-witness accounts from nearby road workers, police documentation, and accounts from the driver.

He ran into the side of a car going 45 MPH. Read the article.


-Tim-
I'm sorry, but you are extremely incorrect in this case. And I quote,

"On May 17, the racer was out for a training ride on his Specialized bicycle, leaving the area of the Misano circuit on a narrow road called Via Caí Rafaelli. He was struck by a Peugot 206 car immediately after entering the two-lane Strada Provinciale 35, known locally as via Tavoleto.

Omicini concluded that the Peugot 206 car was traveling at almost 73 kilometers an hour (45 mph) on a road with a 50 kmh limit. There was no evidence that the driver applied the brakes prior to hitting Hayden. The impact shattered the frame of the bicycle; Hayden hit the right side of the windshield and was tossed more than 15 feet upwards.
"

also,

"Examining the evidence in front of him, the public prosecutorís investigator, Orlando Omicini, determined that the 30-year-old driver of the Peugeot 206 struck Hayden while driving just over 70 km/h down Via Tavoleto, while the speed limit for the road was 50 km/h.
Conversely, Omicini also determined that Hayden failed to stop fully at the stop sign at the roadís intersection, riding his bicycle at roughly 20 km/h along Via Caí Raffaelli when he was struck.
"

The car absolutely hit Hayden, there was no visible damage to either of the bike's wheels. The frame is shattered at the seatpost. He was undoubtedly struck from the side.



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Old 10-01-17, 01:03 AM
  #25  
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I'm surprised there is so much discussion of speeds and ear buds and not who has the right-of-way. If the accident was Hayden blowing through a stop sign on a road where the cross traffic has the ROW and plowing into the side of the car, then putting 70% of the blame on the car driver simply by virtue of their being 15mph over seems pretty harsh.

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