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Old 10-10-17, 10:48 AM   #26
woodcraft
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
One person on a bicycle "could not remember anything," according to Jim Elias, the executive director who arrived shortly after the incident. One was taken by helicopter to the hospital. The three others were taken by ambulance. How much did *any* of them see of the driver who intentionally hit them FROM BEHIND?

Do you really believe that *any* of those witnesses could give a description of the vehicle as anything other than a "dark pickup truck," let alone a slightly lifted midnight blue, circa 2007 Dodge Ram crew cab with black rims that protrude past the bodywork and missing a front license plate? How about a description of the driver?

-mr. bill

I believe there were other witnesses as this was a fondo ride w/ hundreds of riders.

I was at the event & saw the scene from a distance. Spoke to a number who saw the aftermath & I think the event.

One said that one of the bikes flew 20' in the air.
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Old 10-10-17, 11:06 AM   #27
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I believe there were other witnesses as this was a fondo ride w/ hundreds of riders.

I was at the event & saw the scene from a distance. Spoke to a number who saw the aftermath & I think the event.

One said that one of the bikes flew 20' in the air.
And not *one* of those witnesses would have been able to give a description of the vehicle or driver as complete and accurate as the photographs. Interview dozens of witnesses and you could not come up with a consistent description of the vehicle or driver.

I'm so sorry. One charity ride I was on someone pulled over to the side of the road, got out of their "dark pickup truck", ran across the road and randomly selected one person on a bike to push over. He broke their femur.

We came upon the down rider as the ambulance and fire truck arrived. They are a coworker and friend of one of our very small team (three people) of riders. The description of the vehicle by the witnesses was pretty generic. Luckily a couple of witnesses took pictures.

-mr. bill

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Old 10-10-17, 12:06 PM   #28
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so... a guy is accused if attempting to run four people down with his vehicle (evidence: 4 injured people, video of the incident) and is released on $50,000 bail (paying only $5,000, of course.) And remember, this is a guy who, apparently, only a week or two ago was issued a DUI after he was accused of attempting to run over a woman in a parking lot and, failing to strike her, struck a CVS drug store instead (using this very same blue truck in the incident!)

So, to recap, an unhinged, dangerous-to-himself-and-society individual is on a multi-week murderous rampage and he's just going to be released to continue it?
apparently so. Seems like there was no shortage of people calling in to report this unhinged hill-billy.
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Of the many who provided information, at least two callers gave authorities Paff’s name and address, Barclay said. Based on those tips, CHP detectives and officers, along with Novato police, arrived at Paff’s residence about 11 p.m. Saturday.
maybe it's a 3 strikes scenario and he needs to try and kill someone in a 3rd incident this weekend?
Really all you need to do is take one look at what he's driving and it tells you who you're dealing with. We have plenty of them here, coal rollers that blow giant black clouds of diesel smoke onto cyclists, wheels and tires pushed out so they can clip people without scratching their truck, uncapped exhaust so then can gun the engine and intimidate you, and don't forget the confederate flag in the back window surrounded by NRA stickers. Real honest to goodness Murikans protecting their country

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It's getting much easier for me to justify the cost of cameras like the Fly6/12. It's hard to put a price on piece of mind that someone could do something like this and not get away with it.
that's $500. to film both forward and back.

Can anyone recommend a helmet mounted model that films in a wide arc front and back simultaneously?
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Old 10-10-17, 12:42 PM   #29
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go-pro hero4 is $150., but it only films forward AFAICT. Good to prove you didn't run a red light and weren't riding in the middle of the road, but won't do you much good if hit from behind and thrown into a ditch
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Old 10-10-17, 01:40 PM   #30
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that's $500. to film both forward and back.

Currently about $375 with their bundle deal. Like I said, it's getting easier to justify every time you hear a story like this.


Here's hoping for a black Friday sale on the Cycliq website!
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Old 10-10-17, 02:02 PM   #31
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I dunno about the fly, but I have a hero 3 (slightly older, yes) but it really only gives me maybe an hour of battery life.. Even with the 32GB card I stuck in it, it's hardly up to the task of filming my entire ride, start to finish -- just in case anything happens.

Do these other cameras offer some sort of DVR type functionality where they record only 30-minutes and, unless you press a button to tell it otherwise, it just overwrites the oldest content?
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Old 10-10-17, 03:06 PM   #32
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Imagine someone from the outside world who does not ride a bike reading this discussion about what kind of camera we should use to bear witness to the motorist who runs us over. I mean...would you expect that reader to EVER take up cycling on roadways?? Or would they think: "Man, these people are CRAZY to continue putting themselves in harm's way!"

If I told my wife: "Hey Honey, I just got a handlebar cam for my bike so you will have evidence in a trial against they guy who kills me during my ride!" Woohoo!! Just imagine her reaction, assuming she loves me.

A&Sers can be so strangely entertaining.
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Old 10-10-17, 03:14 PM   #33
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even stranger to think about is the individual who returns every day to observe and frequently participate in a condescending way.
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Old 10-10-17, 05:24 PM   #34
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go-pro hero4 is $150., but it only films forward AFAICT. Good to prove you didn't run a red light and weren't riding in the middle of the road, but won't do you much good if hit from behind and thrown into a ditch
Uh, if you point it backwards it records....

-mr. bill
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Old 10-10-17, 06:49 PM   #35
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Currently about $375 with their bundle deal. Like I said, it's getting easier to justify every time you hear a story like this.

Here's hoping for a black Friday sale on the Cycliq website!
that's still a lot IMO unless you commute in a very buys place every day. Under such circumstances I would want a full record daily.
I've actually never been directly threatened here, some coal-smoke sure but no one has tried to hit me or acted like they were about too. This place is changing though , I heard a number of 10K people a week were moving here at the height of it last year. A lot of them to work the oil wells, not exactly cycling enthusiasts. Saw a bumper sticker the other day " You got high, now go Home"

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Imagine someone from the outside world who does not ride a bike reading this discussion about what kind of camera we should use to bear witness to the motorist who runs us over. I mean...would you expect that reader to EVER take up cycling on roadways?? Or would they think: "Man, these people are CRAZY to continue putting themselves in harm's way!".
you really think it took this thread to make us look crazy? The first thing people tell me when I say " I ride a road bike" is what kind, Harley or Kawasaki. I say Masi, Spandex not leather" . Their response is "riding a bicycle on the road is crazy."

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Uh, if you point it backwards it records....

-mr. bill
thanks bill, I will practice rotating my head 180 Degree's @ .01 seconds before the car behind me plows me over, like Flash Gordon meets The Exorcsist










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Old 10-10-17, 06:59 PM   #36
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You can choose to point it forwards or backwards... ...or sideways.

Your choice, no neck special effects required.

-mr. bill
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Old 10-10-17, 07:25 PM   #37
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Do these other cameras offer some sort of DVR type functionality where they record only 30-minutes and, unless you press a button to tell it otherwise, it just overwrites the oldest content?
The Cycliq models overwrite older content if necessary and are also designed to detect a crash incident. In that case they continue to record for a short time (if possible) to get the immediate aftermath and then shut off so the data isn't overwritten.
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Old 10-10-17, 10:26 PM   #38
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If it is proven to be intentional, I hope something in the state laws allows the drivers license to be revoked for life, along with actually serving a hefty prison sentence.
Unless the accused incriminates himself with something like "teach them a lesson", intent is almost never shown to a degree sufficient to support a conviction.

That said, if intent can be shown, a charge such as "aggravated assault with a deadly weapon" or something along those lines is usually available, and it's a serious charge that includes prison time. But showing intent is very, very difficult unless the guy incriminates himself somehow -- almost everything else can be explained away as an accident or even negligence.
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Old 10-10-17, 11:08 PM   #39
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go-pro hero4 is $150., but it only films forward AFAICT. Good to prove you didn't run a red light and weren't riding in the middle of the road, but won't do you much good if hit from behind and thrown into a ditch
Quite a few of the <$60 FauxPros on Amazon are getting decent reviews, including longer battery life than the GoPros. Most show some problems at max resolution and framerate, but if you're not trying to make a demo for LucasFilm, you really shouldn't be trying to do [email protected] for your day to day riding anyway. Besides, at that price you can do front and back for less than the cost of a single GoPro, and I'd rather have two directions of [email protected] than one at high res.
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Old 10-11-17, 07:23 AM   #40
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That said, if intent can be shown, a charge such as "aggravated assault with a deadly weapon" or something along those lines is usually available, and it's a serious charge that includes prison time. But showing intent is very, very difficult unless the guy incriminates himself somehow -- almost everything else can be explained away as an accident or even negligence.
Agreed completely.

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Besides, at that price you can do front and back for less than the cost of a single GoPro, and I'd rather have two directions of [email protected] than one at high res.
Nothing out there right this minute, but I've bought GoPros from their actual factory recertified store on eBay, one can frequently nab some good deals there too.. I've seen some of the Hero3's for under $100: GoPro Certified Refurbished Cameras | eBay Stores
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Old 10-12-17, 11:02 AM   #41
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Quite a few of the <$60 FauxPros on Amazon are getting decent reviews, including longer battery life than the GoPros. Most show some problems at max resolution and framerate, but if you're not trying to make a demo for LucasFilm, you really shouldn't be trying to do [email protected] for your day to day riding anyway. Besides, at that price you can do front and back for less than the cost of a single GoPro, and I'd rather have two directions of [email protected] than one at high res.
thanks, I found some knock-off's for about $80., and I agree you don't need " 4K" to capture a license plate number or the drivers face. $80. is stil la lot for an un-kown Asian brand
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Nothing out there right this minute, but I've bought GoPros from their actual factory recertified store on eBay, one can frequently nab some good deals there too.. I've seen some of the Hero3's for under $100: GoPro Certified Refurbished Cameras | eBay Stores
isn't that a little weird though? I mean we spend thousands of dollars on Aero frames and then mount this square box on top of our helmets?

Seems to me an ideal design would be some kind of cylinder shape with lenses front and back, recording simultaneously. The Garmin Verb Elite is half-way there, lots of good tech and 3 hours recording time at 1080P (presumably longer at lower rez?) , + GPS
doesn't seem bad for $144. until you read the reviews, really bad reviews.

Is it safe to say the ideal solution for cyclists is not there yet? Reminds of the the early days of bicycle headlights, they were mostly junk.

Last edited by draganm; 10-12-17 at 11:07 AM.
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Old 10-12-17, 11:26 AM   #42
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isn't that a little weird though? I mean we spend thousands of dollars on Aero frames and then mount this square box on top of our helmets?
These guys need to care about aero far more than anyone on this site (outside of perhaps some in the racing forums), and they don't seem to have an issue with sticking them on their bikes:

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Old 10-12-17, 05:10 PM   #43
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Imagine someone from the outside world who does not ride a bike reading this discussion about what kind of camera we should use to bear witness to the motorist who runs us over. I mean...would you expect that reader to EVER take up cycling on roadways?? Or would they think: "Man, these people are CRAZY to continue putting themselves in harm's way!"

If I told my wife: "Hey Honey, I just got a handlebar cam for my bike so you will have evidence in a trial against they guy who kills me during my ride!" Woohoo!! Just imagine her reaction, assuming she loves me.

A&Sers can be so strangely entertaining.
Pretty sure that if other-worldly beings were to evaluate us, they'd see much more madness in a culture that makes deadly motor vehicles its primary form of transport.
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Old 10-12-17, 09:19 PM   #44
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Jensie Gran Fondo Hit and Run Update


A devastating incident occurred during the Jensie Gran Fondo of Marin on Saturday, October 7. Novato resident Aaron Paff plowed his pickup truck into four riders on Pt. Reyes-Petaluma Road, only four miles from the ride's finish at Stafford Lake Park.

The collision threw riders off the roadway and sent shattered bicycles in all directions. Paramedics arrived quickly to the scene, evacuated three of the men by ambulance, with the fourth requiring a medevac helicopter.

We at MCBC and the Jensie Gran Fondo are relieved to report that all riders have now been released from the hospital. The most seriously injured rider, Spencer Fast of Mill Valley, will require extended recovery, especially for his right eye.




A motorcyclist caught the incident on a helmet-mounted camera and immediately provided it to the California Highway Patrol, which shared images widely on social media. Numerous tips flowed in from county residents, resulting in the arrest of 21-year-old Paff at approximately midnight that same evening.

The motorcyclist, a resident of Santa Rosa and veteran of the war in Iraq, was participating in a motorcycle rally in the area. Executive Director Jim Elias met with him and viewed the video multiple times. Elias was also on the scene minutes after the incident.

"The video showed a blue pickup truck approaching the four cyclists from behind. They were riding single file on the far right side of the road. The truck then moved from the center of the lane to the right, essentially exploded the group of riders, and then moved back to the center and sped off. It was awful."



Elias met with CHP Captain Robert Mota on Wednesday. Captain Mota confirmed that Paff had been arrested on felony hit-and-run charges. When pressed on why Paff wasn't booked into jail on stiffer charges, Mota suggested the case is still developing, saying, "We arrested the driver based on the evidence and existing laws. The reality is, if he had pulled over after hitting the cyclists, we could have cited him with nothing more than a traffic citation."

Mota added, "We were grateful that several people responded to our social media posts, coming forward with information that led us to arrest the driver quickly."

Captain Mota and the Corte Madera-based CHP have worked closely with MCBC toward making Marin's roads safe for cycling, including concentrating on intentionally aggressive drivers.





This case is under active investigation. If you have additional information regarding the incident, or have witnessed Paff driving dangerously or menacingly at other times, contact CHP Investigating Detective Kevin Giannone at [email protected].

"We obviously still have work to do to make our roads safe," Elias observed. What happened at the Jensie is shameful. We will not accept incidents like this as inevitable."


MCBC will continue to update this story as it develops.






Thank you for helping to share the MCBC Experience.

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for everyday transportation and recreation.


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Old 10-13-17, 02:00 PM   #45
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"We arrested the driver based on the evidence and existing laws. The reality is, if he had pulled over after hitting the cyclists, we could have cited him with nothing more than a traffic citation."
So Vehicular Assault (CVC 20001) never occurred to the CHP with regard to the actions of the driver. Interesting.

From a legal blog page...
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Assault with a vehicle falls under the category of assault with a deadly weapon, other than a firearm. The punishments for this charge vary. You can face up to one year in jail or two, three, or four years in a state prison and/or a fine of up to $10,000. You may also have to pay punitive damages to the victim. Punitive damages vary quite a bit, as they are calculated by a jury, but could be substantial if the injury you caused was great. Assault with a deadly weapon when the weapon is a vehicle will also result in the immediate revocation of your California driving privileges, by the DMV.
What Is Vehicular Assault?

Hit and run with injuries...
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Vehicle Code 20001
Jail: Maximum of one year

Fine: Not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000

The degree of punishment depends on whether the accident has caused a serious injury or death or merely a minor injury. It also depends on whether the offense is charged as a misdemeanor or a felony, which is usually determined based on factors such as defendant’s criminal history and the seriousness of the offense.

Serious Injury/Death:

In the event of serious injury or death that is charged as a felony, a defendant may face up to 2, 3, or 4 years in the state prison, in addition to a fine between $1,000 and $10,000.
9 Things You Need To Know About "Hit & Run" Accident Charges | Vehicle Code 20001, 20002 | Aizman Law Firm

Vehicular Assault seems to differ from Hit and Run (with injuries) in that immediate revocation of your California driving privileges also occurs.

I may be interpreting this wrong... as after all, I am NOT a lawyer.
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Old 10-17-17, 11:46 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by draganm View Post
that's $500. to film both forward and back.
Worth it

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Currently about $375 with their bundle deal. Like I said, it's getting easier to justify every time you hear a story like this. Here's hoping for a black Friday sale on the Cycliq website!
And Amazon has had them on sale a time or two.

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The Cycliq models overwrite older content if necessary and are also designed to detect a crash incident. In that case they continue to record for a short time (if possible) to get the immediate aftermath and then shut off so the data isn't overwritten.
With a 64GB SD card in the Fly12 and a 32GB SD card in the Fly6 (which is largest they support, they include a 16GB and 8GB at purchase) I can film my entire ride (up to 10 hours) without looping over footage (Fly6 loops are 10 minutes, Fly12 loops are 5 minutes).

I do wish the Fly12 had a built in level for when I swap bikes, I do wish the app was a little faster, more resolution is usually better (but then you would lose some recording time) but I think the Cycliq products are the best balance. Their customer service is pretty good also, my Fly12 locked up while under warranty, but because I thought I was out of warranty I put it off a couple of weeks, and when I contacted them, they exchanged the unit as a warranty, I was out the cost of shipping only.
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Old 10-22-17, 07:19 PM   #47
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These guys need to care about aero far more than anyone on this site (outside of perhaps some in the racing forums), and they don't seem to have an issue with sticking them on their bikes:
well what I learned from that video is that pastel colored bikes are in, and that "aero" is a load of hokum if you can race the tour with a big box on your head
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So Vehicular Assault (CVC 20001) never occurred to the CHP with regard to the actions of the driver. Interesting. .
oh it occured to them, but right now they can only prove hit and run. For assault you have ot prove he meant to do it, which is why they are asking for other people who might have had an aggressive traffic altercation with this guy prior. You can then start showing he does this all the time and that it wasn't really an accident or "distracted driving". they do have that woman that he tried to run over in the grocery parking lot but who knows if this detective has been talking to that detective, etc. It's surprising how many screw-ups happen prior to trial and then these guys walk.
the only smoking gun "would have been" audio recorded by one the injured cyclists of the driver yelling at them before he plowed thru them. They could then prove without a doubt it was an act of aggression versus negligence.
Or, a few other drivers unrelated to the incident who come forward and say " this guy tried to run me off the road on this date and time". Other than that, it's only going to be felony hit and run, driving suspension but possibly little or no jail time.
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