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Semi-autonomous BMW forces close pass of cyclists

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Semi-autonomous BMW forces close pass of cyclists

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Old 01-31-18, 12:06 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Why not?

Don't you do the same hyping routine with every optimistic (only optimistic!) press release you can find on the Internet that you can spin into your fanciful predictions about the imminent arrival of inexpensive driver less vehicles available for safely transporting passengers at bargain prices, presumably all the while making profits for the organizations producing, owning and/or operating these miracle vehicles?
No, I don't do the same.

And even if I did...

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Old 02-01-18, 07:00 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Really? You draw that conclusion from a single event among thousands of safe passes of cyclists by AVs, during a beta test of a Nissan AV from almost a year ago?
the head of development of that autonomous car happily let it pass a cyclist far too closely. This is on a low traffic two lane road where another lane was available. The head of the entire effort. So yeah, u gonna die.
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Old 02-01-18, 11:20 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
the head of development of that autonomous car happily let it pass a cyclist far too closely. This is on a low traffic two lane road where another lane was available. The head of the entire effort. So yeah, u gonna die.
Nissan is barely on the radar of companies at the forefront of AV technology. It's all in the R&D stage. Of the myriad issues facing each AV company, getting bicyclist passing and treatment in general is probably not at the top of the list, but it will be handled properly long before production. They can't afford the marketing nightmare of hitting a pedestrian or bicyclist.
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Old 02-01-18, 06:19 PM
  #54  
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the R&D phase is probably the most dangerous, since they are out on the roads with unproven software. Like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGoE...ature=youtu.be
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Old 02-01-18, 07:43 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
the R&D phase is probably the most dangerous, since they are out on the roads with unproven software. Like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGoE...ature=youtu.be
Phantom AI ?? Who is that?

I see they're very new, near the bottom of the list of companies with permission to test in California.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...nomous/testing

But even this most dangerous period is proving to be safer than human driving, mile for mile.
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Old 02-05-18, 12:16 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
So, identical to the majority of human drivers who consistently display more care for paint than fellow road users?
Simple and succinct.
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Old 02-05-18, 12:35 AM
  #57  
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It's seems that many of these thread morph into a similar version of a similar argument, which in turn suggests that it's


a) misunderstood
b) not comprehended
c) annoying
d) all that the your little dog too!


I don't even understand how this got to be a thing here and I try to see what the thread are about but I often bail shrugging my shoulders.


Why not start a site about driverless cars and let's all get a new bike?


Bikes are damned neat-o!
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Old 02-05-18, 12:19 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
It's seems that many of these thread morph into a similar version of a similar argument, which in turn suggests that it's


a) misunderstood
b) not comprehended
c) annoying
d) all that the your little dog too!


I don't even understand how this got to be a thing here and I try to see what the thread are about but I often bail shrugging my shoulders.


Why not start a site about driverless cars and let's all get a new bike?


Bikes are damned neat-o!
Driverless cars will affect every aspect of our lives perhaps more than any other technology has. Two aspects that will be affected greatly are cycling safety and getting more people on bikes (advocacy). That's why these discussions are here.
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Old 02-05-18, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Driverless cars will affect every aspect of our lives perhaps more than any other technology has. Two aspects that will be affected greatly are cycling safety and getting more people on bikes (advocacy). That's why these discussions are here.
Perhaps you should consider prefacing your assumptions with an occasional "IF" or "in my opinion", so as not to seem so star-struck by the PR hype.
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Old 02-07-18, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Semi-autonomous BMW will ?fight driver? to deliver close passes of cyclists | road.cc

when I first saw this story, I thought the problem was that it didn't detect cyclists. But now I realize it's just worrying about going over the lane line more than it worries about passing distance. My toyota would brake in this situation. Of course, it will not do lane following at 25mph or less, so it might not come up.
I knew this was going to happen.

When I originally said it, back when autonomous vehicles were brought to market. People said the autonomous vehicles would be safer than human-driven vehicles.

Now they have to eat crow.
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Old 02-09-18, 04:58 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Chris0516 View Post
I knew this was going to happen.

When I originally said it, back when autonomous vehicles were brought to market. People said the autonomous vehicles would be safer than human-driven vehicles.

Now they have to eat crow.
You're conflating these driver-assist systems with autonomous vehicles. Not the same!!!
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Old 02-10-18, 11:23 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
You're conflating these driver-assist systems with autonomous vehicles. Not the same!!!
A lot of folks are doing that... including the drivers of two crashed Teslas... who apparently didn't bother to read the manual.

The semismart cars are causing all sorts of grief, as their required human drivers fail to maintain control, and blame the car.

There needs to be a huge sign in these things, right on the dashboard... "Warning, human driver required to maintain control."
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Old 02-11-18, 09:08 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Driverless cars will affect every aspect of our lives perhaps more than any other technology has. Two aspects that will be affected greatly are cycling safety and getting more people on bikes (advocacy). That's why these discussions are here.

I don't know about that.
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Old 02-12-18, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
I don't know about that.
Well, I don't know that either, of course. But I'm quite confident that's where it's going. However, I was also confident Trump wouldn't win the primary, let alone the general...
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Old 02-12-18, 04:49 PM
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Semi-autonomous still means the operator wasn't doing their job.
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Old 02-13-18, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
Semi-autonomous still means the operator wasn't doing their job.
Exactly. I'm surprised there isn't even more carnage from semi-autonomous.

Years ago Google observed human drivers getting so lackadaisical in their semi-autonomous cars that they abandoned that approach and decided to go straight to Level 4/5.
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Old 04-05-18, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
I've had this kind of thing happen with my new Toyota Rav4. The "semi-autonomous" correction is fairly subtle, but it irks me that it does this at all. There is an over-ride button, (and a turn signal, which on the open road is fine, but around blind corners there might not be enough time), but I would rather leave the lane change detection on, and have the other settings on standard. Mine cuts out under ~35mph, and on the windy narrow mountainous roads where I live, it is definitely an issue.
Stupid designs and intrusions into our way of driving are getting to the point enough is enough in new cars. When I am driving, I am going to steer the car and I am going to choose where it goes. That is precisely the reason that I will not buy a new car these days, it really irks me if some computer chip started tugging at my steering wheel because of some paint on the road. There must be a way to turn that damn thing permanently off, even if its done by removing components.

My opinion is the same for that "lane keeping system" as with all other similar systems - if you cannot keep the car in a lane by yourself, or cant park by yourself, or cant start on a hill by yourself, chances are that your skill isnt enough to be a proficient driver, better turn in the licence and sell the car.
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Old 04-05-18, 05:21 PM
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If one dozes off behind the wheel... it might be nice if the car could safely self-park, although stopping in the middle of the road would not be appropriate.

So far I haven't driven a car with any steering assist. Mom likes the adaptive cruise control on her car. I suppose I gave up on cruise controls years ago because I like to adapt my speed to road and traffic conditions.

Mom has lane beeps on her car. An interesting concept. Perhaps good for some things, but it beeps for things like avoiding potholes (sinkholes) on not very busy rural roads. Thus, one also quickly learns to ignore many of the beeps.

I certainly wouldn't want a car that deliberately steered me into potholes. At the same time, I suppose I wouldn't want it to steer me away from them either.

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Old 04-06-18, 08:54 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Not sure about BMW, but Tesla makes it abundantly clear that it accepts no responsibility when the driver chooses to engage their Level 2 Autopilot. Doesn't make it immune from being sued, of course, but they have pretty good protection, I think.
IANAL, but I'm pretty sure that Tesla can write in all the liability disclaimers it wants, but until the liability issue (for the particular case of an accident occurring while a car is in Level 2 driver assist mode) is tested in the courts the level of protection to Tesla provided by those disclaimers is unknown.

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Old 04-07-18, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
Semi-autonomous BMW will ?fight driver? to deliver close passes of cyclists | road.cc

when I first saw this story, I thought the problem was that it didn't detect cyclists. But now I realize it's just worrying about going over the lane line more than it worries about passing distance. My toyota would brake in this situation. Of course, it will not do lane following at 25mph or less, so it might not come up.
@unterhausen, I don't really see anything that indicates it can or cannot detect cycles. I assume that when the BMW is switched (commanded is a better word to follow the lane boundaries, in that algorithm it does not consider the effect of vehicles or objects that are not in its path, OR it is not capable of reliably detecting and tracking (necessary to steer around) a cycle in the BOL (for example). In Level 0 and Level 1 systems, often OEMs will limit the performance envelope (i.e. turn it off when the speed is less than 35 mph) when the system known performance limitations cannot be resolved with the technology as it is.

If the bike is in-path I assume the ACC would have had to function, but reliable detection and tracking can still be difficult. An automatic steering function may be developed to the point where the car can stay within its lane, but not to the point where it can reliable establish clearance to cross the lane boundary. This capability would be needed for the car to violate the lane safely in to achieve a 3 (or 5 or whatever) cycle passing gap when practicable. Essentially, is the car capable of determining when executing the cycle passing gap is practicable?

Another possibility is that the BMW does detect bikes, but the required (was it required in the testing locale?) passing gap was not programmed. It might or might not be a big software change, but as an update it would be a software change. Hence "a miss is as good as a mile" would be what's built-in to the steering algorithm.

So, I dunno the exact situation for that BMW development car, but these are some of the system design complexities as I see them.
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Old 04-07-18, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Lane assist is not autonomous driving. It is drivers assistance. It is there to keep the driver from drifting out of lane causing a wreck.

Use the blinker, or turn the system off. I'd be shocked if the system allowed a close pass at any sort of speed anyhow, collision avoidance shouldn't allow it.
I agree with your first. I think the second one is grey. If what you mean by "collision avoidance" is forward vehicle collision mitigation ISO 22839, it sets up requirements for when an object is in path, at least partially.
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Old 04-07-18, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
the R&D phase is probably the most dangerous, since they are out on the roads with unproven software. Like this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGoE...ature=youtu.be
Yes! An R&D vehicle does not always have all the "driver expectations" built in.

The software has to have some qualification. Jumping the program pointer to a random location would be absolutely unpredictable in its outcomes.
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