Right of way ?
11-20-17, 11:31 AM
#52
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i forget what things were like in other places I've lived, but here passing turning cars on the right is the norm, so when someone is trying to be nice and wave you on to turn left, for example, you have to be super careful because someone is quite likely to be passing that turning car on the right to continue on straight. MA folks love squeezing by on the right (and I've actually had people get offended on occasions when I don't get over enough to create room to pass. I won't begrudge anyone taking a moment to let someone pass but I always have to verify what other traffic is around.
11-20-17, 11:53 AM
#53
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IMO, they are the #1 most dangerous drivers out there. Give me a predictably rude, selfish, and impatient driver any day of the week over these starry-eyed do-gooders. These flakes will wave you right into the path of a speeding 18 wheeler and get you cut in half if you are naive enough to trust them.
It's a trick! Don't fall for it, just ignore them. Many times they still won't move, I have had to go completely around them on several occasions. Probably killed their buzz, but I lived to ride another day.
It's a trick! Don't fall for it, just ignore them. Many times they still won't move, I have had to go completely around them on several occasions. Probably killed their buzz, but I lived to ride another day.
Last edited by Chief; 11-20-17 at 11:54 AM. Reason: grammar
11-20-17, 12:32 PM
#54
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I've had the same thing happen to me as well. They are offended because you didn't obey them which goes to show it all was more about them than you anyways. What gets me is how often it is that you could have easily and safely gotten to where you were going if they had just continued on their way.
11-20-17, 12:32 PM
#55
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I occasionally ride on a bike path, that has a traffic light at the crossing of a main road. Once in a while a driver will stop to let me cross when I am not allowed to cross, per the crossing light. If there are other users waiting at the crossing light, if I cross, they all follow me thinking they have the right of way, and not looking carefully for traffic.
Also when a group of cyclists are waiting and a rider on his own crosses against the light, every one starts to follow. Thinking the traffic will let them go across.
No way anyone is going to make me cross against the crossing light.
Also when a group of cyclists are waiting and a rider on his own crosses against the light, every one starts to follow. Thinking the traffic will let them go across.
No way anyone is going to make me cross against the crossing light.
11-20-17, 01:09 PM
#56
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You always have to make the determination that it's safe for you to proceed.
That's what the other two people did not do. Not doing so is careless.
11-20-17, 01:48 PM
#58
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Pretend I'm too dumb to have even seen them, looking everywhere but at them, sitting there in the cross street. Except sometimes they'll honk and start waving to go, and then I have to play even more dumb, wave back, get my water bottle out, maybe take my helmet off like I'm settling in for a stay.
Have you noticed that they never seem to look around before waving you to go first? Most politely, you go first please, right in front of this city bus.
Have you noticed that they never seem to look around before waving you to go first? Most politely, you go first please, right in front of this city bus.
11-21-17, 09:28 AM
#59
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Very possible. Oh, I forgot to mention in my original comment: If I fail to heed the driver's implied directive, and he or she leans on the horn to get me to comply, I'll start yelling at them that "There's a car coming!!!" and point at the vehicle that would have run me down. I tend to get angry when someone threatens my life by trying to coax or coerce me into doing something stupid. It must be something instinctive.
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11-21-17, 09:54 AM
#60
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Exactly, and they also make the choice for all the traffic behind them to have those vehicles wait while they wave you across. Who among us who has driven a car for at least a year has not experienced the driver ahead of us stopping or slowing down to let another vehicle into their lane in a block before a traffic light and then both of them make the green light while you get stuck at the red? Yeah, thanks a lot.
11-22-17, 01:54 PM
#61
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I detect hostility about people out there just being nice. People in cars are screwed either way in the opinion of this forum I guess. They don't care about us on bicycles and this forum hates them. They go out of their way to be nice to us on bicycles and this forum hates them.
I do the same as a few have said. I don't ride where there is a lot of traffic. My traffic is single cars whether out in the country on main throughway secondary roads or in town on the side streets where I will generally encounter a single car at a 4 way with me.
If noone else is around, I wave thanks, give a smile, and move through the intersection or whatever quickly. If more than just a single car, I generally am the one waving everyone through before I go. If I see multiple cars and plan on waving everyone through first, I grab the waterbottle for a drink and wave folks on before going myself.
I do the same on higher traveled roads when stopped for redlights. I filter up close to the front but not all the way up. Most of these roads for me have space around the 2nd car in line for me but is tight with a curb or lack of shoulder right at the first car. We generally will have up to maybe 6 or 7 cars stopped at the light so when it turns green, I'm down on my right leg (not the normal leg I stop on) and turn around a bit and motion all the cars forward and take up the tail through the light. I don't understand the thoughts that most have to filter up front and get ahead when the light turns green only to have everyone need to pass you then repeat at the next light.
I also attempt to direct traffic that is coming up behind me. It is very hilly, and thus on a bicycle, I can see oncoming traffic much earlier than anyone in a car. When I can see over the crest of the hill, I'll wave a car that has been waiting behind me through if there is no traffic coming. If I see a car, I'll hold my hand back telling them to hold back and give them my index finger. If another car appears, I'll give them 2 fingers. I can see what's coming, they can't behind me.
I am not a fast rider and though I climb a lot (rollercoaster like hills) I am well into Clyde territory so my momentum into a climb is measured in feet before its gone. So when I'm climbing up our hills here, I'm usually 5-6 mph, maybe 8 at times and when I see a car coming up from behind and I'm closer to the top, I'll stand to give a burst of speed to get closer to the crest when the car catches me and also to see over that crest earlier to check with traffic so that I could wave the car around me.
I do the same as a few have said. I don't ride where there is a lot of traffic. My traffic is single cars whether out in the country on main throughway secondary roads or in town on the side streets where I will generally encounter a single car at a 4 way with me.
If noone else is around, I wave thanks, give a smile, and move through the intersection or whatever quickly. If more than just a single car, I generally am the one waving everyone through before I go. If I see multiple cars and plan on waving everyone through first, I grab the waterbottle for a drink and wave folks on before going myself.
I do the same on higher traveled roads when stopped for redlights. I filter up close to the front but not all the way up. Most of these roads for me have space around the 2nd car in line for me but is tight with a curb or lack of shoulder right at the first car. We generally will have up to maybe 6 or 7 cars stopped at the light so when it turns green, I'm down on my right leg (not the normal leg I stop on) and turn around a bit and motion all the cars forward and take up the tail through the light. I don't understand the thoughts that most have to filter up front and get ahead when the light turns green only to have everyone need to pass you then repeat at the next light.
I also attempt to direct traffic that is coming up behind me. It is very hilly, and thus on a bicycle, I can see oncoming traffic much earlier than anyone in a car. When I can see over the crest of the hill, I'll wave a car that has been waiting behind me through if there is no traffic coming. If I see a car, I'll hold my hand back telling them to hold back and give them my index finger. If another car appears, I'll give them 2 fingers. I can see what's coming, they can't behind me.
I am not a fast rider and though I climb a lot (rollercoaster like hills) I am well into Clyde territory so my momentum into a climb is measured in feet before its gone. So when I'm climbing up our hills here, I'm usually 5-6 mph, maybe 8 at times and when I see a car coming up from behind and I'm closer to the top, I'll stand to give a burst of speed to get closer to the crest when the car catches me and also to see over that crest earlier to check with traffic so that I could wave the car around me.
Your first paragraph describes the majority of the forum participants as "hostile". What would you call a police officer that has just pulled over a vehicle with darkly tinted windows, and he has to approach that vehicle not knowing the intentions or how many people are in the vehicle? Would you call him hostile because he is suspicious and approaches with extreme caution because his experience and training dictate that? The members here are taking responsibility for their own safety, and you misinterpret that as hostile? You might want to think about that again....
Your particular sign language is essentially making you the executive secretary for the "King of the Road" behind you.(In the context of how you describe it and your mindset of your safety priorities). I find if you take control for your own safety first and worry less about what the drivers behind you want, you will be far better off. If I take a lane, and determine for my own safety that I need to strongly indicate that I am slowing or stopping or allowing the car to pass. I do it, when It is best for me, not them. That is not hostile, it is pure personal safety!
I have two mirrors, two rear lights, multiple patches of reflective 3M material and a yellow and bright green road bike that makes me obvious, and I make my intentions obvious. I signal, I confirm with a double or triple check in my mirror, with always a plan B in mind, if he is an idiot. When you ride with purpose, with direction, it is clear to everyone around you what your intentions are. If you are constantly deferring to the cages, good luck on that.
They will cut you off, right hook you, speed pass at inches, smoke you, on and on. Been there done that. They do not appreciate it. Most attitudes I see in my area are, "You are delaying me, get the f out of my way. Your subservient attitude is a danger to us all. Communication and clear intentions will get you home from your ride.
11-22-17, 02:23 PM
#62
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I am neither hostile nor do I hate the do-gooders, the niceholes who feel they are doing their good deed for the day by yielding their right of way to a bike and waving them through. But I read over and over in this forum and others how bicycles are equal vehicles of the road with motor vehicles and then here comes a car waving me across a street when I'm waiting at a stop sign like I'm some grade school kid out on the street for the first time and they do this when there are no cars behind them or coming from the other way! Would they do this if I was in a car waiting at the stop sign for them to pass? No, I'm just a bicycle that needs help getting across. No thanks, I'll take care of myself and just wait until it is safe to cross.
11-22-17, 06:12 PM
#64
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And if the driver had simply continued on their way you could have been across before they ever slowed down, stopped and waved you across. What kind of moron waves you to cross the street when they have the right of way and there's no other traffic around? Do these people believe that everyone on a bike is like a little kid that has trouble riding in the streets and understanding traffic rules? If I were in a car with no other traffic around would they wave me across as well? Safety is not the only issue because no matter their good intentions it can come off as being condescending.
11-22-17, 06:14 PM
#65
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Agree; if a bicyclist is unable to determine when there is only one car at or approaching an intersection, or does not know if he is grownup or not without confirmation from strangers, perhaps he/she should not be riding at all without an accompanying grownup to help him/her ride "safely" in traffic.
Last edited by I-Like-To-Bike; 11-22-17 at 06:24 PM.
11-22-17, 06:18 PM
#66
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I have noticed, during the few times I'm actually able to see a driver when this happens, it's probably a female 80-90% of the time.
So another possibility might be that the person waving you through the intersection simply likes the cut of your bibs, and wants to check you out as you ride past. Which kind of adds a whole new dimension to this discussion that I had not considered.
So another possibility might be that the person waving you through the intersection simply likes the cut of your bibs, and wants to check you out as you ride past. Which kind of adds a whole new dimension to this discussion that I had not considered.
11-22-17, 06:50 PM
#67
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Just this afternoon I caught my reflection in some large windows on the ride home...Unfortunately I don't think your explanation works for me.
11-22-17, 06:57 PM
#68
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And if the driver had simply continued on their way you could have been across before they ever slowed down, stopped and waved you across. What kind of moron waves you to cross the street when they have the right of way and there's no other traffic around? Do these people believe that everyone on a bike is like a little kid that has trouble riding in the streets and understanding traffic rules? If I were in a car with no other traffic around would they wave me across as well? Safety is not the only issue because no matter their good intentions it can come off as being condescending.
Just roll with it, in every sense of the phrase.
11-22-17, 08:47 PM
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Exactly. Plus, twice just today I've had imbeciles wait unnecessarily long for me to go by, when they could have been well on their way before I got there, only to pull out going the same direction just after I'd gone by and then pass me too close.
11-23-17, 05:56 AM
#71
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Save the nice and just stick to the rules of the road and I'll do the same.
11-23-17, 08:49 AM
#72
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I disagree that these drivers are all just trying to be nice. I think most just don't know if they should treat you as a pedestrian or a vehicle, so they err on the side of caution (for themselves, not the cyclist - "better to just stop and let the cyclist through just in case I am supposed to stop, as for pedestrians").
If you let drivers forfeit the right of way to you on your bike sometimes, but not others, you reinforce their behaviour and they will keep doing it, perhaps even in dangerous situations such as multilateral roads with traffic, which happens to me frequently. I suggest that cyclists should not accept the right of way from clueless motorists so that their behaviour gets corrected, not reinforced.
11-23-17, 01:00 PM
#73
Senior Member
Now that we've determined how a lot of us feel about motorists having the right-of-way forfeiting it, how do we feel about
1) cyclists having the right of way letting cyclists at stop signs run through?
2) motorists having the right of way letting motorists at stop signs go through?
See post #77.
1) cyclists having the right of way letting cyclists at stop signs run through?
2) motorists having the right of way letting motorists at stop signs go through?
See post #77.
Last edited by Daniel4; 11-23-17 at 06:00 PM.
11-23-17, 01:56 PM
#74
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11-23-17, 02:04 PM
#75
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Now that we've determined how a lot of us feel about motorists having the right-of-way forfeiting it, how do we feel about
1) cyclists having the right of way letting cyclists at stop signs run through?
2) motorists having the right of way letting motorists at stop signs go through?
1) cyclists having the right of way letting cyclists at stop signs run through?
2) motorists having the right of way letting motorists at stop signs go through?
Or are you talking about some form of self-policing or shaming? I'm won't do it. If people want to run stop signs, I won't take responsibility for their behaviour or changing their behaviour.