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Wider, Solid Fog Lines?

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Wider, Solid Fog Lines?

Old 11-27-17, 11:41 AM
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1989Pre
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Wider, Solid Fog Lines?

I was just wondering if this might be a serviceable idea: Wider, solid fog lines (perhaps 10-12" wide) wherever the road shoulder ends abruptly. This could serve as a "mini bike lane", and give cyclists a comfortable spot in cramped quarters. Here is an example of a spot where a widened white line could prove useful:

Last edited by 1989Pre; 05-05-18 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 11-27-17, 11:44 AM
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Well gee, in the example you posted, the grass was painted... hardly "bike lane quality..."
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Old 11-27-17, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by genec View Post
Well gee, in the example you posted, the grass was painted... hardly "bike lane quality..."
I was not suggesting riding in the grass. (rolls eyes).
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Old 11-27-17, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
I was not suggesting riding in the grass. (rolls eyes).
Well, the picture you provide (on the right) and your statement:
Wider, solid fog lines (perhaps 10-12" wide) wherever the road shoulder ends abruptly. This could serve as a "mini bike lane"
rather leads one to that conclusion.

Now perhaps you mean that the road crew should pave another 12 inches or so of roadway...

Good luck with that.
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Old 11-27-17, 12:39 PM
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painted lines are slippery when wet
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Old 11-27-17, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
painted lines are slippery when wet
I'd guess that they would be non-skid (which is really less-skid) markings.

Either way, a 10-12" wide paint line is not a bike lane, it's a tightrope.

-mr. bill
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Old 11-27-17, 01:41 PM
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gen: Sorry for any confusion: The widened line would inhabit existing tarmac.

rumr: That's a decent point. There must be a surface material available, though.

mr b: Less of a tightrope than existing lines, and a discernible and established place for us to be.
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Old 11-27-17, 01:41 PM
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Is there non-skid road paint that can be relied on to wear properly? Is it costly? I dread large patches of painted bike lane as they seem to be treacherous when wet.
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Old 11-27-17, 03:23 PM
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The outer 2' of roads like that should be gore.
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Old 11-27-17, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by asmac View Post
Is there non-skid road paint that can be relied on to wear properly? Is it costly? I dread large patches of painted bike lane as they seem to be treacherous when wet.
These are valid concerns. I hope that at least theoretically, however, my idea appeals to some, and might compel adventurous technicians and engineers to develop a 100% recycled material (from discarded electronics casings?) that would have good durability and abrasion resistance, be inexpensive to produce, store and apply, and optimally, offer some degree of scrape protection to riders in case of a crash, at least in contrast to asphalt or concrete. It seems to me that substances such as this exist, but we need an alternative that is affordable.
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Old 11-27-17, 04:46 PM
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I don't know, I prefer having no bike lane at all and sharing the road than having a substandard bike lane that is going to leave me no room for mistakes and is going to encourage super-close passes by motorists

When you ride on a shoulder drivers tend to forget they need to give you extra space because they feel that as long as you are in your lane and they are in theirs it is perfectly safe
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Old 11-27-17, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by salcedo View Post
When you ride on a shoulder drivers tend to forget they need to give you extra space because they feel that as long as you are in your lane and they are in theirs it is perfectly safe
How much "extra space" do you need before you feel safe when you are riding on a shoulder and the motorists are driving in the traffic lane?
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Old 11-27-17, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
How much "extra space" do you need before you feel safe when you are riding on a shoulder and the motorists are driving in the traffic lane?
The law where I live is 1m, in other places it is 3ft

I want enough space so that there is very little risk of the car clipping my handlebar or my panniers, even if the driver gets distracted, or if something happens and I wobble or swerve a bit, or if there is an obstacle that I need to avoid
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Old 11-27-17, 07:58 PM
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I prefer no lines at all. I rode on some freshly paved two lane highways this summer and it was great. Drivers will give you plenty of room when they’re not worried about crossing the center line.

I’ve also been checking out roads around Girona for an upcoming vacation and noticed that many don’t have a center dividing line. Spanish drivers are very respectful towards cyclists.
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Old 11-27-17, 11:58 PM
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Use the full lane, move aside if necessary after they notice you and slow down. Easy peasy.
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Old 11-28-17, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 1989Pre View Post
gen: Sorry for any confusion: The widened line would inhabit existing tarmac.

rumr: That's a decent point. There must be a surface material available, though.

mr b: Less of a tightrope than existing lines, and a discernible and established place for us to be.
The travel lane is that discernible and established place for us to be. A narrow slippery space next to a substandard width lane is most definitely not that place.
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Old 11-28-17, 04:56 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
painted lines are slippery when wet
+1
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Old 11-28-17, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I prefer no lines at all. I rode on some freshly paved two lane highways this summer and it was great. Drivers will give you plenty of room when they’re not worried about crossing the center line.
One local example here was quite the opposite for me. There's a mile to mile and a half stretch of a major road that becomes two lanes, blacktop, or more accurately, chip seal. Every time that section is re-chipped, so to speak, no center line or fog lines for several weeks.

Drivers seem lost, stay away, much too far, from the center and encroach on the shoulder areas even though the driving lanes are quite wide and so are the shoulders.
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Old 11-28-17, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Use the full lane, move aside if necessary after they notice you and slow down. Easy peasy.
Is there some sort of exception in the vehicle code where you live that requires that vehicles must slow down prior to safely passing any other vehicle and/or bicycle on the road?

Your "easy peasy" recommendation sounds far more like riding in a manner to deliberately impede the flow of traffic in order to satisfy your own internal requirement to "be noticed", or more accurately, to "take control" of other vehicles on the road, regardless of how much lateral space is available to safely "share" the road and for other vehicles to safely pass.
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Old 11-28-17, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree View Post
The travel lane is that discernible and established place for us to be. A narrow slippery space next to a substandard width lane is most definitely not that place.
You challenge motorists for their lane.., not me. I'll take my chances trying to keep my bike upright on the paint.
Remove the center double line so that there is only a single, dotted one, so that cars and trucks can shift to the opposing lane if safe.., and necessary.
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Old 11-28-17, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by salcedo View Post
[...as long as you are in your lane and they are in theirs it is perfectly safe...]
I generally agree with this excerpt. I am from a big city, though, and you soon learn in such places that a near-miss is just as good as a car passing you from 15 feet away. I think a car passing me in close proximity shows good skill.

Last edited by 1989Pre; 11-28-17 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 11-28-17, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by asmac View Post
Is there non-skid road paint that can be relied on to wear properly?
Yes. (Though again, it's a misnomer to call it non-skid, it's less-skid. But that's what they call it. And it's not paint, it's generally thermoplastic.) Properly applied, the "non-skid" lasts while the surface wears. (Improperly applied, the whole surface doesn't bond, leading to Ichabod Crane bike symbols.)

Originally Posted by asmac View Post
Is it costly?
Installation cost? More costly than paint. Life-cycle cost? Cheaper than paint. (Paint is unacceptably slippery anyway.)

Originally Posted by asmac View Post
I dread large patches of painted bike lane as they seem to be treacherous when wet.
They shouldn't be. Ironically, the "non-skid" green thermoplastic is far less slippery than the white and yellow thermoplastic lines, arrows, and bike symbols. Particularly when newly applied, but even worn.

-mr. bill
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Old 11-28-17, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
"non-skid" green thermoplastic
this stuff?



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Old 11-28-17, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
They shouldn't be. Ironically, the "non-skid" green thermoplastic is far less slippery than the white and yellow thermoplastic lines, arrows, and bike symbols. Particularly when newly applied, but even worn.
Unfortunately it all looks like 'paint' hence it makes me nervous. Good to know the green stuff is an altogether different material with different skid properties. We have green lanes (thermoplastic maybe) and blue bike boxes which are paint, I believe, and which wear out fast.

That green stuff also seems to wear off quickly, particularly in a harsh climate that sees a lot of snowplows. I don't trust our city to spend the money for regular maintenance for this and, for that reason, would prefer if they just didn't install it in the first place.

Last edited by asmac; 11-28-17 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 11-28-17, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Is there some sort of exception in the vehicle code where you live that requires that vehicles must slow down prior to safely passing any other vehicle and/or bicycle on the road?

Your "easy peasy" recommendation sounds far more like riding in a manner to deliberately impede the flow of traffic in order to satisfy your own internal requirement to "be noticed", or more accurately, to "take control" of other vehicles on the road, regardless of how much lateral space is available to safely "share" the road and for other vehicles to safely pass.
Just a modicum of slowing confirms they've noticed me. That's all I'm looking for. Nothing that rises to the level of impeding!
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