squirtdad

In the San Francisco bay are there is a bit of controversy about dockless bike share programs. A couple of companies have tried in San Francisco but been stopped because only one company has permits (exclusive) from the city to run such a program.

and the Docking bike share companies like Ford seem to have exclusive bike share rights and are pushing against the dockless companies for infringment

San Jose where I live has the ford docking bike share, but recently the dockless Limebikes ebikes have started showing up. Not sure is this is guerrilla or permited.

My millennial neighbors tried the ebikes and said the were fun, but a bit of a surprise when the assist hit.

The bikes seem well built, but are e-bikes...single speed with a Bafang assist.

One of these was sitting in front of the neighbors house at 11 pm and gone the next morning....not sure if someone rented it or if the limebike guys retrieved it and put it in a central locations (bikes are gps tracked)

I am not really sure what I think about these, yet especially the ebike side, but can see some good stuff, but would need to see that these don't just get abandonded

any on try these, or have thoughts or more experience in your area?

dabac

There’s one dockless operator in my city. And within days the bikes started end up ”dumped” - left in the exact same bad spot day in and day out. No apparent activity.
Maybe dockless would work better together with a more active retrieval/redistribution activity.
Or limited to a certain zone where the bike density could be held higher.
As it is, the docked system in my city is superior.
If I go out on a whim, I know where the stations are. If I want to plan ahead, there’s a site where I can see which stations that have bikes left.
The dockless ones are strewn randomly across the city, with no way of knowing If there’ll be one for me to pick up or not.

surak

Seattle had a docking bike share for a while that hardly anyone used. That went away and now we have 3 companies running dockless. One of them just introduced e-bikes, and I believe have already made Seattle have the largest e-bike share system in the country. E-bikes definitely make sense because there are plenty of hills around town where people dump bikes at the bottom and require repositioning by the companies. The pedal assist is capped at 14.8 mph so they shouldn't be much of a nuisance.

Although the people meandering and swerving around on bikes are a bit of a hassle to maneuver around, I do believe that more bike riding visibility is helpful for safety and awareness of all cyclists. And the people riding them seem to be enjoying themselves. There are some bikes casually strewn about, but I haven't heard of any rampant and repeated vandalism. Over the weekend, we had some strong winds, and I believe nature knocked over more bikes than I've seen tipped by people. I think the public will grow accustomed to seeing the bikes around, and as the novelty fades, they will find other things to unleash their creative energy into ruining.

arbee

I’m within the service area of New York City’s bikeshare system (Citi Bike) operated by Motivate. I was one of the charter members. I just checked: I’ve logged 2,326 trips. That’s not breaking any records, but it does mean I’ve accumulated some experience.

Getting one thing out of the way: Citi Bike is private; it receives no subsidies from NYC.

Citi Bike employs conventional docks, so my experience doesn’t directly address your query. Though Citi Bike doesn’t receive a municipal subsidy, there is municipal regulation and oversight, good things, IMHO. There are requirements for levels of service and maintenance, both of which seem sketchy at best with dockless systems.

One clear difference between Citi Bike and dockless systems: the dockless bikes can be left anywhere. (“Dockless”: I get it!) In NYC, where real estate (including sidewalk and street space) is at premium, most (not all) Citi Bike docks are on the street, typically in lieu of motor vehicle parking spaces. The original NYC - Motivate agreement called for Motivate to reimburse NYC for lost parking revenue. The status of that reimbursement is – squishy. But whether or where Citi Bikes belong is IMHO rationalized by the presence of docks. For municipalities where public space might not be as constrained as it is in NYC, the presence of dockless bikes scattered hither and yon might not be an issue.

Another difference is how sturdy the bikes are. Citi Bikes are ... robust. They have other characteristics, too, but their harshest critics don’t deny they’re ... robust. Dockless bikes are, by report, cheesier. Further, where dockless bikes have appeared, municipal oversight is also reportedly hit-and-miss.

Maintenance appears to also be distinctly different. Citi Bike provides local employment, not a bad side-effect, IMHO. With dockless bikes, reports I’ve read suggest that bikes requiring maintenance are simply abandoned, imposing explicit costs on the municipality.

Last (for this post), it seems the underlying business model of dockless bikeshare systems is monetizing personally-identifiable data related to who’s using bikes, and where and when the bikes are being used. IMHO, this is creepy. Further, there’s no geographic restriction on where this accumulated data can end up. Again, creepy. And yes, Citi Bike (for example) knows when I obtain a bike from the system and where it ends up, but there is municipal oversight on how that data is used.

Ninety5rpm

Too soon to tell. Kudos to them for trying something so bold and likely to fail.

kap 7

Limebike was just rolled out here early last year and it's the only company here at the moment and they are standard bikes not e-bikes. I live in Mishawaka but the program was rolled out in South Bend, Indiana which directly border each other.

I haven't used them personally but I would say they overall have been a hit with people. For example Lime decided to bring more bikes to the area after seeing pretty good popularity and also I just recently heard that they have had a really good number of riders during this winter which has been kinda nasty here this year. We do have a number of college campuses (largest being Notre Dame) and quite many bike lanes and bike paths around so that helps. Also recently seen a local article saying they use the winter time to do some bike maintenance and are also doing some sort of upgrade to the kickstands (see next paragraph about that) while the ridership is lower.

Seems most gripes i've heard about the program are from people who feel the bikes are too strewn about laying on their sides on the ground etc. from either people that are too lazy and throw them anywhere (a handful have even been tossed into the river) or seem to have some kind of issue or laziness with using the kickstands and parking them properly.

Oh, on a side note I did read somewhere they were working try to improvise some sort of "Preferred parking spaces" for the bikes, but not sure exactly how that will work but from what i gathered its their idea of attempting to reduce clutter and improve convenience for people while still staying dockless.

Keep in mind all of this is about what i hear about local happenings.. I wouldn't be surprised if they try different strategies in different cities.

atwl77

There are a couple of them operating in my city, and although the concept is nice in theory, I don't see how it can be practical/successful until at least these issues are somehow addressed:

• The lazy users who simply park/dump the bikes anywhere and everywhere after riding them
• The bike haters who dump/trash the bikes they see (often, but not always, the result of the point above)

Maelochs

As I recall in China dockless bike companies have to employ small armies of collectors ... people who go out to pick up the bikes dumped all over the cities. So, the bike companies have to employ fleets of pick-up trucks ..... not sure this is a viable situation.

Maelochs

From what I hear this had been a problem in China because of clogged sidewalks and blocked roadways.

jon c. 

My city recently started a program that allows bikes to be parked at any public rack. It does seem as if they have enough installations in the relatively small urban area that this would seldom be necessary as one of their racks would always be nearby. I might expect that the only people who might leave them at other racks would be students leaving them on the university campus, which doesn't appear to have any of the bike share racks. And recovery would be more expensive you'd have to be on foot to reach many on campus racks.

But at this point it appears to me that getting people to ride them at all is a much greater concern than where riders might leave them. I've yet to see someone using one of these. They have enough racks and bikes out there that the initial investment appears to exceed the potential revenue they may generate.

noisebeam

These litter bikes are all over my area. Several brands I think, one yellow, one green. One made it to my neighborhood, but when I went to tryit it required I scan a sticker?? That left me confused as to who can use them.

surak

That's probably the QR code that directs you to download an app. Of course you can just find the app in your smartphone's app store (assuming you have a smartphone). Some companies also have ways of prepaying and activating by SMS, but apps are the main way people rent the bikes.

noisebeam

I can text and talk. No data.

CliffordK

Portland has a docked system with zone, but allows dockless parking, and taking the bikes out of the defined zone and parking them dockless.

However, it is cheaper for the riders to park in designated docks than it is to park dockless. And, there is a significant expense to park dockless out of the zone. Riders, on the other hand, get a bonus for picking up undocked and out of the zone bikes and returning them to the docks.

Looking at the real-time map, I've wondered if some of the people parking dockless out of the zone may plan on taking the bike out of the zone, then returning with the same bike the next day.

I think their designated bike share zone is mostly in a business/commercial part of town, so they might pick up a few apartments and hotels, but miss most of the residential neighborhoods. So, the bike shares would be ineffective as commuters for most residents, but perhaps usable for lunchtime errands.

veganbikes

I prefer people put their trash in trashcans or dumpsters, not just leave it on the sidewalk for someone else to deal with. Now I would say take these bikes remove the locking devices and give them to people who need them in less developed countries but they are such junk that it would be almost mean spirited to do that. Maybe crush them and sell the scrap and give that money to folks in need (though you probably won't get much).

The clueless commuters and docked bikeshares offer enough menace without random dockless wheeled garbage roaming around the streets and sidewalks. I am sick and tired of having to deal with people who have their own bikes riding the wrong way down the street (or MUPs), using flashing white lights in the front or other issues plus horrible car drivers, why would I wish to add to that.

mr_bill

Lots of people seem to have opinions.
Has anyone so far with opinions actually used a dockless bike share system?
Used any bike share system?

Anyone?

DB Call a Bike in Frankfurt is easy to use. They have what I call dockless docks. Either a box on the pavement or a signpost directing users to leave bikes here.

But you could leave them at any intersection, but there is a 5 euro charge to do so. So no “litter” problem.

I grabbed one bike at a random intersection. Since cell phone GPS is often innacurate (particularly in cities) it took a bit to find it. Kind of like geocaching, it gets you close, but a bit of a hunt.

In Taipei oBike is dockless, but requires a Taiwan mobile number. YouBike is docked, and non-citizen friendly. So I used YouBike. I noticed several oBikes left very near YouBike docks. Also saw oBikes parked with scooters. Not once did I see an oBike littered anywhere.


Most of the share bikes in greater Boston are docked (Hubway) but some cities and towns are trialing dockless (Limebike and Ofo). I don’t use any of them. (I came close to using a Hubway once, but decided to walk.)

Other docked shares I’ve used: SeoulBike, Santander Cycle (previously Barclays Cycle Hire, but still called Boris Bikes), Divvy, and the defunct Pronto, (and Timbuk2, an odd duck).

Docked systems not used: OV-Fiets (requires Dutch Bank account), Bixi (had a bike), and CitiBikes (hotel bikes).

-mr. bill

arbee

Not an unfair question even though the thread’s less-Procrustean title is “Your Thoughts on Dockless Bike Shares”.

Your comment suggests generally positive experiences in Frankfurt, and it seems the oBikes you observed were part of a well-run system. No reason for you to have inquired, but I wonder: any insight into government / municipal oversight of these systems? More broadly, any insight into why the better-run systems are better-run?

Rollfast

I've had a few bikes stolen and three returned?

mr_bill

Multiple private bike shares all attempting to "win" in an area leads to a glut of supply, a dearth of users, and littering, and finally graveyards.

But bike parking is always an issue, no matter if it's private bikes, tourist rental bikes, docked bikeshare bikes, dockless bikeshare bikes. See Fietsdepot in Amsterdam.

The most successful "recipe" seems to be a critical mass of supply *AND* parking (docks or dockless), a distribution of places to pick-up/drop-off bikes near where people are and want to go, PUBLIC TRANSIT+bikeshare dramatically increases chances of success, and if there are large numbers of people already WALKING that dramatically increases chances of success. Basically, the first/last miles of a trip (Start->walk->bikeshare->transit->bikeshare->walk->Finish) is a multiplier, and destinations that are too far to walk to but too short to take any other transit also is a multiplier.

That could be why transit oriented systems (DB Call a Bike and OV-Fiets) are smart.

Multiple cities sharing the same bike share (Boston/Cambridge/Somerville) makes a lot of sense.

There doesn't have to be a lot of bike infrastructure (bike lanes, bike routes, etc), but it is a multiplier of success.

On just don't. Putting a few bike share bikes and a few isolated bike stations in car dependent land filled with stroads, nope, unless you want to repeat old boring and very fast failures (Bike Nation Anaheim - wow, there were half-a-dozen bikes outside the convention center, but then why?)

For dockless, looks like Seattle's biggest problem during trial was parking and they are probably going to have some sort of Frankfurt-ish bike parking areas (marked or signed). Allowing people to drop-off and pick-up outside parking areas with a "penalty" fee or "reward" fee seems like a very good idea too.

Dockless bike are easier to vandalize and prank. Water nearby makes them even easier to vandalize.


Apps, I've got quite a collection of bikeshare apps now. Obviously, English-language translations help. Registering in Seoul allowed me to set language preference, and the bicycle voice confirmations for docking/undocking were in English as a result. Nice.

In Taipei, the kiosks had an English language option. (Except for a few confirm/go back/cancel buttons, but Google Translate confirmed that the red/green colors meant what I thought they meant.) However, the official YouBike app is untranslated, but there is an unofficial UBike app that is translated, but only allows you to see dock status.

Of special note, Transit is an app I used in Chicago that is pretty well integrated with public transit *AND* bike shares across multiple cities. Even used it yesterday to track bus arrival here in Greater Boston.


Several cities allow you to use transit cards for both public transit and bikeshare. (In Taipei, you could also use them in museums, use them to buy things at 7/11, and top them off at 7/11 too.) One caution, be careful not to top off with too much money, otherwise your money might effectively get "stuck" on the card.


Finally, Google Maps is mostly bikeshare unaware. Bicycle directions will tell you how to get from A-to-B on a bicycle, but not tell you where the docks are. If you search for bikedocks nearby, it sometimes finds them, and sometimes not.

In a it would be nice world, you could use an app like Google Maps for directions, transit fare, bikeshare fare, etc. But before then a far higher priority is for them (and other navigators) to finally get bike routes off beta status.

(TomTom in particular recently tried to route me through a tunnel closed to bicycles.)

Bottom line - good bikeshare, good bikeshare apps, and good navigation all make it pleasant to travel on a bicycle.

-mr. bill

Maelochs

China (at least several months ago) had huge heaps of docklless bikes outside subway entrances---hit the rfid tag with a smartphone, ride away ....

But there have to be a lot of people walking along routes which are bike-friendly--which I would assume means clean, safe (wide bike paths with good pavement) and mostly flat (unless the bikes have e-assist. Pick-up/drop-off is only a factor if people are actually riding the bikes.

Another issue is the road home. If you grab a bikeshare bike for the last couple miles from the mass transit depot to your home ... then what? You pay a small fee and leave it ... and someone earns a small fee by collecting it and in the morning you are screwed. But ... if you keep it overnight, you get a huge bill, so that doesn't work.

It is mystifying to me why every purely urban short-travel bike commuter doesn't do a Brompton---fold it up into a suitcase or a rolling luggage rack, bring it into the office or onto the train.

I know in Washington DC it is allowable to bring a bike on some trains at some times .... But a bunch of people with full-sized bikes would be an issue. A folder, I could sling the panniers over my shoulder on a padded strap and roll the folded bike like a suitcase.

of course I'd never buy one because they look so bizarre .... I just struggle finding safe lockups for my full-size.

mr_bill

That's mystifying alright.

-mr. bill

mr_bill

It would be a bad idea to have the "last docks" *AT* the mass transit depot. You'd have the docks at the depot, plus docks serving *around* the depot. If there's dock/parking area a few blocks from your home, you'd checkout a bike at the depot, park a bike at the dock/parking area close to your home, and then walk the last few blocks.

If there isn't a bikeshare dock/parking area within walking distance of your home, then no, that likely won't work for you.

Of course, if there is secure bike parking at the transit depot, you could *ride* the two miles to the transit depot and lock your bike there. That solves the first leg of the morning, last leg of the day.

Perhaps the bikeshare will work for you from the transit stop->work leg? If not, then a folding bike might be an option, or not....

-mr. bill

Maelochs

Well those NYC bikeshare monstrosities get ridden .... Never by me, but I have seen a lot of others ride them.

pesty

We've had Limebike and a few others here in Dallas for a while now and while I love the idea, they are a effing eyesore. To the point that the city has threatened to confiscate the bikes and levy fines against the companies if they don't clean them up.

We've had them end up on telephone poles, in the Trinity River, they are like giant cigarette buts, and people are taking them to the surrounding cities.

SHBR

I have used them a few times.

My wife uses them almost daily.

They are great when they are new.

After a few months of abuse and no maintenance they become rather unusable for anything longer than 1km.

Oversupply is still a major issue.