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The Thing People Don't Get About Safety

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The Thing People Don't Get About Safety

Old 02-22-18, 07:49 PM
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The Thing People Don't Get About Safety

Thousands of bicycle accidents have happened from riding on the wrong side of the road. Many of the riders who are facing automotive traffic think it is safer because they can see what's coming. What they don't realize is that anyone in a car making a right turn only looks to the left before pulling out.

Oh, sure, the good driver is supposed to look to the right too, but since no cars will be coming from that direction, they fall out of the habit. So, here's Joe Think's-He-Knows-Everything riding along the left side of the road (in non- British Empire countries) and he obliviously crosses an intersection or just a driveway. Once he gets hit, he may think it was the motorist's fault. Technically, that may be true, but he'll still be in the hospital or worse.
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Old 02-22-18, 08:02 PM
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Not a worry for long. Soon smart AV vehicles will overtake human driven cars and make salmon riding safe.
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Old 02-22-18, 08:34 PM
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I suspect most everyone on this forum gets it as do the vast majority of cyclists I see out riding every day.
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Old 02-23-18, 07:01 AM
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What gets me are the happy, smiley salmon riding blissfully down the bike lane coming Right At Me and forcing me into traffic further than I want to be, while being all friendly and enthusiastic about meeting another cyclist.

Can't run them off the road ... can't run them into traffic ... so I end up taking the risk. I used to yell, "You're on the wrong side" but i got one who yelled something back making some excuse, so I figure ... why bother. Why spoil their days if they aren't going to change anyway?
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Old 02-23-18, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
Not a worry for long. Soon smart AV vehicles will overtake human driven cars and make salmon riding safe.








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Old 02-23-18, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam View Post
I suspect most everyone on this forum gets it as do the vast majority of cyclists I see out riding every day.
Every now and then you run into someone who defends the practice semi-cogently, but it's very rare. Still, the belief is quite prevalent among non-cyclists. They don't think about it much if any; they just take it for granted. It's so obvious!

But here's something to keep in mind about the population of non-cyclists among whom this belief is surprisingly prevalent. These are the same people bike advocates want to get on bikes, and are the same ones who clamor for physical separation from cars. It's like asking three year olds what they would like to have for dinner, and giving it to them even though they're asking for candy, cookies, cake and ice cream.
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Old 02-23-18, 11:02 AM
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Except that if there was a lot more traffic in designated bike lanes there would be more law enforcement. If there are only ten bikes on the road in a ten-square-mile area they can all ride however they want. if there is regular traffic, someone going the wrong way would get a lot of education quickly and a lot of Go-Pro videos would be forwarded to the police department.
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Old 02-23-18, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Every now and then you run into someone who defends the practice semi-cogently, but it's very rare. Still, the belief is quite prevalent among non-cyclists. They don't think about it much if any; they just take it for granted. It's so obvious!

But here's something to keep in mind about the population of non-cyclists among whom this belief is surprisingly prevalent. These are the same people bike advocates want to get on bikes, and are the same ones who clamor for physical separation from cars.
How do YOU know what belief is quite prevalent among non-cyclists, or if this alleged population of non-cyclist believers is composed of people who clamor for physical separation from cars? Your crystal ball again?
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Old 02-23-18, 11:05 AM
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"I had a vision ..." isn't what all those shamans say after they eat the cactus or mushrooms?
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Old 02-23-18, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
How do YOU know what belief is quite prevalent among non-cyclists, or if this alleged population of non-cyclist believers is composed of people who clamor for physical separation from cars? Your crystal ball again?
Just from talking to people, but surveys show this too:

Among respondents who said it was somewhat or very difficult
to bicycle in their communities and who bicycle in a usual week, many (37%) gave no
bike lanes/roads too narrow/no shoulder as a reason. Respondents also said roads are too
busy/too much traffic (26%) and no trails or paths (17%). Of those who have not bicycled
during the past year, 40% said there were no bike lanes/roads too narrow/no shoulder, 30%
mentioned too many hills/big hills and 26% said the terrain was unsafe.
...
Recommended Changes to Increase the Ease of Bicycling - Providing more
bicycling facilities topped the lists of recommendations given by both cyclists and noncyclists,
but those who have not bicycled during the past year were more likely to give
this reason than those who bicycle in a usual week
https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/NR/rdonlyre...rveyReport.pdf

In a few minutes I couldn't find a survey supporting the prevalence of the belief that riding the wrong-way is safest, but it's common enough to warrant a blog about it:

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...nyc-bike-lanes
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Old 02-23-18, 03:40 PM
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As far as the blog goes .... when people who write for a paycheck need a paycheck they write. They use their "vision."

How many people do you see riding when you ride?

In the past four or five years I have seen four or five salmon ... and every one of them was a non-cyclist--- a waiteress coming home form a restaurant, a few guys on Walmart MTBs carrying groceries, and I happy hillbilly on an gas-assist bike.

I didn't interview them.

Every even semi-serious cyclist I have seen, and almost all the casual cyclists, were headed the right way in the right lane.

if you have no evidence, just admit you have a hunch not borne out by reality?
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Old 02-23-18, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
As far as the blog goes .... when people who write for a paycheck need a paycheck they write. They use their "vision."

How many people do you see riding when you ride?

In the past four or five years I have seen four or five salmon ... and every one of them was a non-cyclist--- a waiteress coming home form a restaurant, a few guys on Walmart MTBs carrying groceries, and I happy hillbilly on an gas-assist bike.

I didn't interview them.

Every even semi-serious cyclist I have seen, and almost all the casual cyclists, were headed the right way in the right lane.

if you have no evidence, just admit you have a hunch not borne out by reality?


You're making my point but your tone is disagreement. I said NON-cyclists (meaning the ones who don't cycle) are the ones among whom the idea that wrong-way riding is safer is prevalent. So, yeah, among people who actually ride you'd expect to see it very rarely, just as you have.
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Old 02-24-18, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post


You're making my point but your tone is disagreement. I said NON-cyclists (meaning the ones who don't cycle) are the ones among whom the idea that wrong-way riding is safer is prevalent. So, yeah, among people who actually ride you'd expect to see it very rarely, just as you have.
Dude .... if your point is that people who don't ride, don't know how to ride ... then this is the most pointless point ever (and in these forums that is a huge accomplishment.)

First off you have not proven any point .... you have not interviewed non-riders to ask how they think one should cycle. You have no idea how these people would ride because They Don't Ride. They don't even know how they would ride because ... They Don't Ride.

You made up a statistic dude ... and now you are arguing that it is real ... but You Know you made it up,

What's up?
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Old 02-24-18, 06:31 AM
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His usual modus operandi.
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Old 02-24-18, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeAlmanac View Post
Thousands of bicycle accidents have happened from riding on the wrong side of the road. Many of the riders who are facing automotive traffic think it is safer because they can see what's coming. What they don't realize is that anyone in a car making a right turn only looks to the left before pulling out.

Oh, sure, the good driver is supposed to look to the right too, but since no cars will be coming from that direction, they fall out of the habit. So, here's Joe Think's-He-Knows-Everything riding along the left side of the road (in non- British Empire countries) and he obliviously crosses an intersection or just a driveway. Once he gets hit, he may think it was the motorist's fault. Technically, that may be true, but he'll still be in the hospital or worse.
What a bunch of bovine excrement.
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Old 02-24-18, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
What a bunch of bovine excrement.
This guy has posts all over BikeForum, all of them apparently promoting his website, and his website just coincidentally opens with a huge ad for his business.

This is actually one of his more lucid posts ... and since he claims that people who are driving do not look in the direction they are traveling, you can imagine how well-conceived some of his other offerings are.

One of his posts starts, "It has been said that the number one American dream is to open a bike shop."

Now that's your comedy gold, right there.
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Old 02-24-18, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by 02Giant View Post
What a bunch of bovine excrement.
Taking just this "anyone in a car making a right turn only looks to the left before pulling out" out of context of everything else, I pretty much agree with it. Not "anyone", but "commonly". Drivers tend to watch left, then check right only after starting to pull out. Sometimes not even then, and if we're closer like on the sidewalk on their right, we might as well forget about them seeing us approaching.
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Old 02-24-18, 01:47 PM
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also there are some drivers that will rocket through a right hand turn without even slowing at all!
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Old 02-24-18, 04:02 PM
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Another question here would be .... where was the bicyclist? if the cyclist was crossing in front of the car, the driver would look left and see the cyclist. if the cyclist was on the same road as the car,t he car would have just passed the cyclist. if the cyclist tried to sneak around a right turn inside a car when there wasn't a safe bike lane to run ito, the the cyclist was illegally overtaking and endangering him/herself. If the cyclist was already at the intersection when the driver drove up, the driver would see the cyclist.

i wonder if this guy has ever driven a car, ridden a bike, or strung together three logical thoughts.
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Old 02-24-18, 06:03 PM
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Sometimes people get a confuse. Every now and then I see a confused Salmon going the wrong way, but here in Portland they're few and far between.
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Old 02-24-18, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by BikeAlmanac View Post
Thousands of bicycle accidents have happened from riding on the wrong side of the road. Many of the riders who are facing automotive traffic think it is safer because they can see what's coming. What they don't realize is that anyone in a car making a right turn only looks to the left before pulling out.

Oh, sure, the good driver is supposed to look to the right too, but since no cars will be coming from that direction, they fall out of the habit. So, here's Joe Think's-He-Knows-Everything riding along the left side of the road (in non- British Empire countries) and he obliviously crosses an intersection or just a driveway. Once he gets hit, he may think it was the motorist's fault. Technically, that may be true, but he'll still be in the hospital or worse.
Quite often throughout the week, I encounter this situation but reversed - a driver looking to turn right whom does not look back to the left just before pulling out. I can only imagine the driver assumes that either they will pull out way before I get to them or I will yield to them.
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Old 02-25-18, 07:23 AM
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How do we explain the same people say walking on that side is correct?
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Old 02-25-18, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed View Post
How do we explain the same people say walking on that side is correct?
A person on foot can easily stop or dodge, and is moving much slower.
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Old 02-25-18, 08:42 AM
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I was trained to look first left, then right, then left again as I pull out. The problem with wrong way cyclists is that the time one takes to again look left and start to pull out can easily encompass a second or more, in which time a cyclist can easily cover 10-15 feet or more. They could have easily not been visible before that distance was traveled. I actually was involved in an accident with a wrong way rider, and the situations was indeed when I was coming from a side street. The cyclist ended up running into the side of my car, and said "I thought you saw me" as his reason.
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There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
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Old 02-25-18, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
A person on foot can easily stop or dodge, and is moving much slower.
Except they're all looking down at their phones.
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