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Don't pass on the right (vid: cyclist in BL right hooked)

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Don't pass on the right (vid: cyclist in BL right hooked)

Old 03-16-18, 01:44 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
I didn't think it was necessary to note that you would only overtake on the left after first looking back and ensuring it's safe to move out there to do so. I do it all the time - it's not a problem. Usually I can do it without slowing down. As soon as I see a motorist ahead slowing prior to a place where they can turn right, I look back and start planning my overtake. Within seconds I'm passing. Occasionally I need to signal/negotiate for right of way, but I can do that often without slowing as well. If you're deliberate and obvious about what you're doing, motorists behind get it and cooperate immediately. That's my experience.
In a conventional situation, with light to moderate traffic, OK. But this is a car turning from the middle of the road, meaning he would have had to swing across from the far right to the far left, all the while closing rapidly on the braking car. This was also a street with traffic moving at nearly his speed, meaning that when he brakes to have the space to go around the car, he will then have other cars approaching him quickly from behind, and looking to go into that same space he would like to take.

Really, passing on the left wasn't a viable option here.

This exactly situation happens at least once every few block in NY, and the placement of the car that is turning makes all the difference in the world.
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Old 03-16-18, 02:24 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by robertorolfo View Post
In a conventional situation, with light to moderate traffic, OK. But this is a car turning from the middle of the road, meaning he would have had to swing across from the far right to the far left, all the while closing rapidly on the braking car. This was also a street with traffic moving at nearly his speed, meaning that when he brakes to have the space to go around the car, he will then have other cars approaching him quickly from behind, and looking to go into that same space he would like to take.

Really, passing on the left wasn't a viable option here.

This exactly situation happens at least once every few block in NY, and the placement of the car that is turning makes all the difference in the world.
At :32 the car is obviously slowing. So easy to look back, see it's clear, and move all the way over to the left of the car as it continues to slow. He doesn't slow at all in the video between :32 and :37 and he's still behind it at :37. That's a full five seconds - tons of time to move across from the far right to the far left. You can do that in under 2 seconds, easy. I do it all the time.
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Old 03-16-18, 03:31 PM
  #53  
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But then,you are a god . Seriously, if I get smacked by someone ignoring the rules of the road, why is it my fault?

P.S I'm glad to hear you do it all the time. Some people have all the luck.
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Old 03-16-18, 03:56 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
But then,you are a god . Seriously, if I get smacked by someone ignoring the rules of the road, why is it my fault?

P.S I'm glad to hear you do it all the time. Some people have all the luck.
Don't be silly. 15 mph is 22 feet per second. In 1.5 seconds, that's 33 feet. It doesn't take a god to traverse a diagonal path across a 12 foot lane within 33 feet of road length. It is easy. And you still have 3.5 seconds to spare before you catch up with the car, probably more, because an astute cyclist would have recognized the situation before :32.

And it's not your fault if you get smacked, BUT it's prudent to understand the likelihood of getting smacked in that situation, why, and how to avoid it.
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Old 03-16-18, 07:27 PM
  #55  
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If we were to ask the eBike rider if he had to do that all over again what he'd do differently, what do you think he'd say? I have a hunch he'd say the 4-5 seconds the motor vehicle's brake lights were on should have given him a clue.
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Old 03-17-18, 08:43 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
Don't be silly. 15 mph is 22 feet per second. In 1.5 seconds, that's 33 feet. It doesn't take a god to traverse a diagonal path across a 12 foot lane within 33 feet of road length. It is easy. And you still have 3.5 seconds to spare before you catch up with the car, probably more, because an astute cyclist would have recognized the situation before :32.

And it's not your fault if you get smacked, BUT it's prudent to understand the likelihood of getting smacked in that situation, why, and how to avoid it.
So, in other words, motorists are encouraged to flout the road rules because they could seriously damage a bike and rider.

Maybe we should all ride on the pavement - that's where people walk, by the way. I read somewhere that you don't have many pavements in the US.
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Old 03-17-18, 09:00 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
MOST motorists are competent.
MOST motorists look before changing lanes.
MOST motorists look before turning left or right.

THAT is what is typical.

What is "typical" is *YOUR* response.

Imagine what your response would be if in the first two "highly unusual incidents" the victims were people on bikes.

And in the San Diego "highly unusual incident" - feel free to go to 8th Ave and C St. They've certainly had to rework that intersection in response to the "highly unusual incident" with the trolley. Which keeps happening over, and over, and over again.

Car, Van, SUV, Ambulance, even a Sherrif's Deputy, crashes into The Trolley is almost a standing headline for the evening news. The only thing unusual about these "highly unusual incidents" is that they are being caught on video.

-mr. bill
Actually, MOST motorists fail to look much to the right when turning right. This is especially true when a driver is trying to enter and merge into traffic while turning right from a minor street to a major street. This is a particular hazard for pedestrians... even in the presence of a walk signal. Motorists often crane their necks looking left, for that gap, that moment to go, and often fail to even glance right as they take off.

Motorists also often fail to look back right when approaching a driveway... they tend to not look down sidewalks, nor bike lanes for approaching pedestrians, wheelchair users and especially cyclists... this is the reason we caution folks not to bike on sidewalks... motorists generally fail to look past the edges of their car into the direction they are turning when turning right. Again, they glance at the driveway aprons, but not much beyond that... and that glance is usually done while they are in motion.

Right turning motorists generally fail to really look right.

Now having said all that (and as a cyclist and pedestrian, having often observed it)... I contend that the cyclist in the OP vid wasn’t cautious enough... and cyclists and pedestrians everywhere should be aware of this particular bad habit by motorists. We aren’t going to train it out of drivers... so we best be prepared for their very typical stupid bad behaviors.
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Old 03-18-18, 11:07 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
If we were to ask the eBike rider if he had to do that all over again what he'd do differently, what do you think he'd say? I have a hunch he'd say the 4-5 seconds the motor vehicle's brake lights were on should have given him a clue.

I would remind you or anyone that when in a line of traffic, bikes or even pedestrians should be watching traffic diligently and you should fall back enough to stay behind turning motorists. If you can't get in that line, use the pedestrian crossing signals or wait for a traffic light pattern that lets you through better.


Your right is to get someplace safely, your responsibility is to do your part to get there. Nobody said you would be guaranteed to do this if you do X, Y and Zed, but learning how to react and work through traffic will help a lot.


Traffic is neither us nor them, it's everyone.
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Old 03-18-18, 12:10 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Rollfast View Post
I would remind you or anyone that when in a line of traffic, bikes or even pedestrians should be watching traffic diligently and you should fall back enough to stay behind turning motorists. If you can't get in that line, use the pedestrian crossing signals or wait for a traffic light pattern that lets you through better.


Your right is to get someplace safely, your responsibility is to do your part to get there. Nobody said you would be guaranteed to do this if you do X, Y and Zed, but learning how to react and work through traffic will help a lot.


Traffic is neither us nor them, it's everyone.
While indeed you have a right to “get there safely,” but the other road users have a responsibility to watch for others and not circumvent the laws...
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Old 03-18-18, 08:28 PM
  #60  
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Which I just said.
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Old 03-19-18, 12:24 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Ninety5rpm View Post
At :32 the car is obviously slowing. So easy to look back, see it's clear, and move all the way over to the left of the car as it continues to slow. He doesn't slow at all in the video between :32 and :37 and he's still behind it at :37. That's a full five seconds - tons of time to move across from the far right to the far left. You can do that in under 2 seconds, easy. I do it all the time.
You need to watch the video again. At :32 the driver taps his brakes briefly, then proceeds to lay off them and driver normally for the next few seconds. From the time the driver started definitively braking for the turn to the time of the collision was actually about 2 seconds.

And sure, there was still enough time for him to swerve all the way around the car to the left if he wanted to, but that's still not the smartest move in a situation where a driver is coming to an unexpected stop in the middle of the road, and your expectation that the car behind will respect your signal and yield to you is laughable. You can never rely on car drivers to do anything
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Old 03-19-18, 05:08 PM
  #62  
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The person hit by the car posted this over on Electric Bike Review. My personal opinion is not to put yourself next to a car if it can turn right. Speed up, slow down or take the lane. That bike lane design pretty much screams “afterthought.”

https://electricbikereview.com/forum...le-lane.16177/

Last edited by Dunbar; 03-19-18 at 05:12 PM.
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