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Eliminate helmet requirement to increase ridership?

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Eliminate helmet requirement to increase ridership?

Old 03-18-18, 08:40 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Seriously? The intent of the helmet law was to decrease cranial injuries.

The unintentional consequence of the law is that it makes fewer people want to ride their bikes, which has the effect of decreasing healthy behavior like exercise and increasing pollution.



Did you really think a government would pass a helmet law with the intent of discouraging cycling? I can't believe I have to even explain that to you.
If all government action is so pure in heart, why have Australia and NZ not repealed their mandatory helmets laws now that the so called unintended consequences have become known and the determent to overall health is clear?

What was your opinion of former Toronto Mayor Rob Ford?




.
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Last edited by CB HI; 03-18-18 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 03-18-18, 08:48 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
seriously, go away now. you brought up the weather not me
I am sorry, I did not know that the purpose of your thread was to list a bunch of other unrelated mandatory helmet laws to NZ's law.
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Old 03-18-18, 09:11 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
I am sorry, I did not know that the purpose of your thread was to list a bunch of other unrelated mandatory helmet laws to NZ's law.
Since you aren't the OP and you're having trouble following people's posts, is this surprising?
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Old 03-18-18, 10:47 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Since you aren't the OP and you're having trouble following people's posts, is this surprising?
Only the post of two posters who's post make little sense and contradict their own post.
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Old 03-18-18, 10:55 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Only the post of two posters who's post make little sense and contradict their own post.
Quote my contradiction.
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Old 03-18-18, 11:26 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by prathmann View Post
Governments are composed of many individuals with varying goals. There have certainly been legislators who have proposed laws with the intent of discouraging cycling (the Missouri proposal to require 15' high flags and various registration/tax requirements come to mind). I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of those supporting the Aus./NZ MHL laws saw the potential decrease in cycling as a positive result while others were motivated only by the prospect of potentially reducing injuries.
It largely came in because of a concerted push by the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons, who seem to think all humans should be able to live without ever hurting themselves. They continue to come up with daft ideas but this one got through. They are quite a powerful lobby group. Other groups supported the push, but mostly it was a case of 'we can't ban these things but it'd be nice if they weren't there'.

I still get lectured by my GP about always wearing a helmet... and he rides a bike at his holiday home, in a tiny little one street town on a backwater where not wearing a helmet and wearing a hat instead would make more sense.
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Old 03-19-18, 02:50 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Quote my contradiction.
Post 44 to 47 shows your contradictions.
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Old 03-19-18, 06:39 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Only the post of two posters who's post make little sense and contradict their own post.
Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Post 44 to 47 shows your contradictions.
I can't even.

-mr. bill
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Old 03-19-18, 06:55 AM
  #59  
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I am in favor of personal choice over government mandates, in most things anyway.

I am also in favor of personal responsibility. If you are injured while riding a bike without a helmet you should not expect the government to bail you out.
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Old 03-19-18, 08:03 AM
  #60  
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let's not feed the trolls, can't believe I fell for it again ...
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Old 03-19-18, 08:08 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
I still get lectured by my GP about always wearing a helmet... and he rides a bike at his holiday home, in a tiny little one street town on a backwater where not wearing a helmet and wearing a hat instead would make more sense.
for me, hypocrisy is worse. we never wore helmets in the '70s, in fact didn't start until my own children started riding because we wanted to set a good example. also, how could I ask my kids to wear all the armament I bought for them, if Mom & I didn't at least wear helmets

now, a bike helmet is no big deal, for anyone in our family. it's not a judgement call. we just put them on
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Old 03-19-18, 08:52 AM
  #62  
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Probably not going to affect my everyday cycling much, but it will stop me the days I leave the helmet sitting at home, or if I am in Detroit and just want to grab a bike share bike for a few hours. I'll just drive instead.

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I'm not sure that the people who choose not to ride because of a helmet law would actually be out there pounding the pavement if there was no helmet law. Perhaps the occasional trip around the block .
Except, the article clearly stated cycling rates halved when the law was implemented:
"She said cycling rates halved when helmets were made compulsory in New Zealand, and that removing the restriction would get more people "out there being active and healthy".

Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
But, there are arguments against seatbelts too...
Not good ones that come from anyone remotely educated in human physiology and vehicle dynamics.

Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
Many countries in Northern Europe don't legislate wearing a helmet. That's because their driving laws are so strict.
At least in the case of the Netherlands, it is actually for this exact reason. The societal benefits from the overwhelming majority of the population regularly cycling, that would be severely reduced with a helmet law, is deemed to be far better than trying to save the handful of deaths a year that a helmet MIGHT have saved.
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Old 03-19-18, 09:22 AM
  #63  
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got me poking around & found this article

What the Dutch can teach Australia about cycling

EXCERPT
The best way to improve cycling safety isn't through helmets and hi-viz – it's about creating safe systems. Separated infrastructure, traffic calming, lowered speed limits, increased education, and legal protections that are weighted in favour of the vulnerable road user.
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Old 03-19-18, 10:28 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Post 44 to 47 shows your contradictions.
I believe you meant 44 and 46. 47 is your post. Please explain how these contradict each other:

Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
If mandatory helmets caused fewer people to ride bikes as in NZ, that would be the unintended consequences.
Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
Right. Hence the word "unintended".
Are you having trouble understanding that I was speaking from the perspective that the NZ helmet law was designed to mitigate serious injuries? Why were you unable to understand something so simple?
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Old 03-19-18, 10:41 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
At least in the case of the Netherlands, it is actually for this exact reason. The societal benefits from the overwhelming majority of the population regularly cycling, that would be severely reduced with a helmet law, is deemed to be far better than trying to save the handful of deaths a year that a helmet MIGHT have saved.
That's true, but it's not like there's an option. Proposing a helmet law would be political suicide, you would not just be ridiculed for the idea, you would be ridiculed as a person and people will never forget you went mental, end of career. Politicians wouldn't even want to be seen wearing a helmet. There is not even been the beginning of a helmet debate here, without foreign visitors people wouldn't imagine the possibility of a helmet debate anywhere else on earth. The rebellious spirit that turned the tide in the 70's is long gone, but if let's say the EU would make helmets mandatory there's gonna be trouble, big trouble.
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Old 03-19-18, 03:59 PM
  #66  
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See the thread about cycling deaths going up. Do we really want to discourage people from using helmets.
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Old 03-19-18, 04:01 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
See the thread about cycling deaths going up. Do we really want to discourage people from using helmets.
I don't think anyone is talking about discouraging helmet use. It is more about mandated helmet use discouraging exercise.

Bike deaths are not increasing like heart disease is.
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Old 03-19-18, 04:02 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
See the thread about cycling deaths going up. Do we really want to discourage people from using helmets.
Yeah, let us just pretend that is from a lack of helmet use rather than figuring out the actual factors.
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Old 03-19-18, 04:13 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
Yeah, let us just pretend that is from a lack of helmet use rather than figuring out the actual factors.
That isn't what he was implying.

What he was getting at is that if the roads are becoming more dangerous to cyclists (due to things like texting drivers), and in such an environment it would be bad to discourage a safety device that would increase cyclists survival.


He was not speaking of cause, as you incorrectly assumed.
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Old 03-19-18, 06:17 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
That isn't what he was implying.

What he was getting at is that if the roads are becoming more dangerous to cyclists (due to things like texting drivers), and in such an environment it would be bad to discourage a safety device that would increase cyclists survival.

He was not speaking of cause, as you incorrectly assumed.
You should really go read rydabent's post in the helmet thread before you claim to think exactly like he does, by KNOWING what he meant.
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Old 03-19-18, 06:23 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by CB HI View Post
You should really go read rydabent's post in the helmet thread before you claim to think exactly like he does, by KNOWING what he meant.
Is this not the helmet thread?

I can read just fine. Actually, I can read better than 99% of people. It is very obvious what he was talking about.
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Old 03-19-18, 08:11 PM
  #72  
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3 weeks ago I crashed going relatively slow WITH helmet and I still managed a low level concussion (plus an arm in a sling for a couple weeks). No law makes me wear a helmet yet I do. I don’t see how reducing helmet laws makes riding a bike any more appealing, but what do I know.
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Old 03-19-18, 08:22 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by RobotGuy View Post
I don’t see how reducing helmet laws makes riding a bike any more appealing, but what do I know.
I don't think saying that helmet laws have decreased the number of people that ride bicycles is the same as saying the reducing helmet laws will make cycling more appealing. The closest you can say is that some of the cyclists that stopped riding from a recent law may take it up again if the law was repealed quickly enough.
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Old 03-19-18, 09:26 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by Kontact View Post
I don't think saying that helmet laws have decreased the number of people that ride bicycles is the same as saying the reducing helmet laws will make cycling more appealing. The closest you can say is that some of the cyclists that stopped riding from a recent law may take it up again if the law was repealed quickly enough.
I suppose you are putting a finer point on it.

Interestingly, this is a decades - long issue in NZ, these laws are decades old and the reduction took near 20 years. The conclusions, I’d say, are a bit confounded to say the least.

For instance, from the 1990’s to mid-2000’s, the hours cycled halved. Just because the helmet law?? Nonsense. I’d bet cycling hours halved in the US over the same time period as the 70’s and 80’s BMX craze finally wore off and as kids just stopped playing outside. Blaming a massive cultural shift like this on a helmet law... they have their heads in the sand.

Blame helicopter parents, game console addictions and a near surgically implanted smart phone.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/n...yclist-numbers

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Old 03-19-18, 09:42 PM
  #75  
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Take seatbelts out of motorized vehicles for the same reason....Stupid.
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