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"All cyclists will need to fit detection beacons, says cycle industry boss"

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"All cyclists will need to fit detection beacons, says cycle industry boss"

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Old 04-16-18, 04:06 AM
  #201  
Maelochs
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He takes an admirably strong stand against a product which does not exist and a law which is wholly imaginary.
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Old 04-16-18, 09:16 AM
  #202  
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Autonomous Vehicle Industry is going to play dead ? Why don't they tell us more about Infrared Cameras ?
IR would solve the problem , yet no one's brought the subject up. Seems like they forgot about it.

I'm all for B2V Transponders being *Available* for those Cyclists who call themselves "Vehicular". Some people are Pedestrians though...

Keep in mind THIS is my idea of "Vehicular Cycling":
Bicycle Fairing Type 6 by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

Vehicular Cycling , to me , means something that looks like sheet-metal (Kevlar, Carbon , Fiberglass, Polypropylene, Polycarbonate, etc.) combined with a set of Lights

Human Powered Vehicle/Velomobile Model 317 by AviationMetalSmith, on Flickr

These Velomobiles should definitely have a Transponder/Detection Beacon.
IF It LOOKS like a Vehicle, then let me have a few transponders to work with . . .

A Cyclist in one of these (or a passenger in a pedicab also...) might have their Infrared (body heat) obscured , or held in , by the Vehicle's Fairing ...

Otherwise, Infrared should detect anything that has body heat.

My 2
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Old 04-18-18, 05:51 AM
  #203  
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A passive far-infrared camera does detect and image based on heat, but that image can be blocked by solid objects in between the cyclist and the camera on the car. Compared to a radio-frequency beacon, the IR detector is less effective.
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Old 04-18-18, 05:58 AM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
All new bikes should come equipped with beacons.

Old bike need to go to any autodealership for their free beacon.

Having said that, would self-driving cars put a heirarchy on vulnerable road users depending if they have beacons or not?
To design them not to regard unbeaconed walkers or cyclists as urgently as those with beacons would be inhumane and unethical, in my opinion. Both types of objects need to be processed at the state of the art.

But, just based on physics an AV will be able to locate and track a person carrying an RF beacon (well-designed) very precisely and consistently, as well as for an equipped connected vehicle. A person without one can be detected but not with as much consistency and precision, even at the state of the art technology and processing.

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Old 04-18-18, 08:52 AM
  #205  
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For general consideration: There are as yet no standards for AV systems. Therefore there are no standards for beacons which AVs could detect. Not sure as it stands that Any AV systems include RFID scanner hardware---why would they? Other than a few pets ....

In nay case ... for those who think reading an entire thread is a waste of time ... this thread was based on a fake news report.

So we have opinions based on nothing about a topic based on nothing in a thread based on a lie.

This ought to be good for another nine pages.
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Old 04-18-18, 09:01 AM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
To design them not to regard unbeaconed walkers or cyclists as urgently as those with beacons would be inhumane and unethical, in my opinion. Both types of objects need to be processed at the state of the art.

But, just based on physics an AV will be able to locate and track a person carrying an RF beacon (well-designed) very precisely and consistently, as well as for an equipped connected vehicle. A person without one can be detected but not with as much consistency and precision, even at the state of the art technology and processing.
That's a good thing. After all, we really are monitored enough, don't you think? One more thing, don't forget to click the "rotate" box.
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Old 04-18-18, 09:16 AM
  #207  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
To design them not to regard unbeaconed walkers or cyclists as urgently as those with beacons would be inhumane and unethical, in my opinion. Both types of objects need to be processed at the state of the art.

But, just based on physics an AV will be able to locate and track a person carrying an RF beacon (well-designed) very precisely and consistently, as well as for an equipped connected vehicle. A person without one can be detected but not with as much consistency and precision, even at the state of the art technology and processing.
This is precisely what I was thinking. However, detecting without high consistency of those without beacons is where the problems will arise. How about dogs, cats, runaway toddlers and their playthings? If and when AVs are designed to precisely and consistently detect these iffy things, what would we need beacons for?
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Old 04-18-18, 09:52 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
This is precisely what I was thinking. However, detecting without high consistency of those without beacons is where the problems will arise. How about dogs, cats, runaway toddlers and their playthings? If and when AVs are designed to precisely and consistently detect these iffy things, what would we need beacons for?
Dude, stop making sense. Have you forgotten where you are?
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Old 04-18-18, 10:23 AM
  #209  
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• AV's ought to be able to detect bicycles wit or without a "beacon" (which hasn't been invented yet...) , and said "beacon" should be a fail-safe, Not the normal operating mode.

• I will restate my assertion that there also ought to be RFID Chips , embedded in epoxy in the asphalt, as reference markers, so the cars' GPS or other navigation system can recalibrate or "zero set" itself.
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Old 04-18-18, 10:29 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
I will restate my assertion that there also ought to be RFID Chips , embedded in epoxy in the asphalt, as reference markers, so the cars' GPS or other navigation system can recalibrate or "zero set" itself.
Actually a good idea ... not sure "embedded in the asphalt" is the best solution---might be----they would have to be passive, and how deep they could be buried and still work would be an issue ... and how frequently they would be needed .... if they could be stuck in Botts dots or something, might be cheaper .... but definitely beats depending on satellite uplinks.

First time i have heard this idea ... I like it.
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Old 04-18-18, 10:33 AM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Actually a good idea ... not sure "embedded in the asphalt" is the best solution---might be----they would have to be passive, and how deep they could be buried and still work would be an issue ... and how frequently they would be needed .... if they could be stuck in Botts dots or something, might be cheaper .... but definitely beats depending on satellite uplinks.

First time i have heard this idea ... I like it.
They would need to be added to the existing database, at the National Geodetic Survey:

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/datasheets/
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Old 04-18-18, 10:34 AM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by hotbike View Post
• AV's ought to be able to detect bicycles wit or without a "beacon" (which hasn't been invented yet...)
Reminding folks, again, not only have these so-called "beacons" been invented, you can BUY THEM TODAY! (See "Vehicle-to-Vehicle.)

And NOBODY is forcing you to buy one. YOU don't want one, don't buy one. You can even tin-foil your smart phone too.

Finally, these have *almost nothing* to do with AV's....

-mr. bill

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Old 04-18-18, 10:42 AM
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Actually a good idea ... not sure "embedded in the asphalt" is the best solution---might be----....

First time i have heard this idea ... I like it.
Embedding stuff in the road to enable "self-driving."


-mr. bill
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Old 04-18-18, 10:52 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Embedding stuff in the road to enable "self-driving."

GM Motorama - 1956

-mr. bill
okay ... first time I have heard a practical suggestion which would work with an existing/ upcoming technology.

I have read a lot of sci-fi, and I have only read the tiniest fraction of what's been written, so it is unlikely there will ever be much developed that hasn't been suggested.

Not thinking Cannondale will be marketing Star-Trek transporters soon
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Old 04-18-18, 11:00 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
okay ... first time I have heard a practical suggestion which would work with an existing/ upcoming technology.
It's not a practical suggestion - and don't hold your breath for smaht Botts' dots either.

-mr. bill
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Old 04-18-18, 11:34 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
This is precisely what I was thinking. However, detecting without high consistency of those without beacons is where the problems will arise. How about dogs, cats, runaway toddlers and their playthings? If and when AVs are designed to precisely and consistently detect these iffy things, what would we need beacons for?
If you have new physics to bring into play, have at it. New physics that is true is difficult to find. Electromagnetic radiation at visible and infrared wavelengths is line of sight and is stopped by opaque matter. Microwave radio waves and lower frequencies can propagate around most objects, improving detectability of beacon signals compared to thermal and optical radiation.

For children, toddlers, and infants I think it’s about the parents, first.

What do you think about the rest?

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Old 04-18-18, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Embedding stuff in the road to enable "self-driving."

GM Motorama - 1956

-mr. bill
mr. bill the quintessential nostalgist.
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Old 04-18-18, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
Embedding stuff in the road to enable "self-driving."

GM Motorama - 1956

-mr. bill
And tested on a real road in 1986, to demonstrate platooning on a stretch of Interstate in California in 1986. If GM did anything with it between 1956 and 1986 ... I don't know. But for the 1986 demonstration, there were iron cores (iron cylinders maybe 2" long and " in diameter) embedded in the road pavement, and test cars had magnetic sensors to detect where the core is and to follow the path the cores are on. Signal was used in the car to make autonomous steering happen. The cars had forward-looking radar to match speed along the platooning column of cars. Here, aside from the use of the road as the reference for driving path, the cars had different and more modern technologies than I would expect to have seen in the '50s, when I was a pre-schooler.

Motorama was on display at the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago for numerous decades - 1950's into the 1980s?

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Old 04-18-18, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mr_bill View Post
V2X and/or C-V2X has little to do with autonomous automobiles.

In fact, V2X and/or C-V2X are rolling out now in non-autonomous vehicles - see platooning.
They'll also roll out in high end luxury vehicles, because, cool.

And the premise of the click-bait in the OP is FALSE, "they" aren't requiring you to install a "detection beacon" on your bike, let alone "chipping" you.


Now back to our regular utopian/distopian fantasies and range anxiety.

-mr. bill
V2X or C-V2X are not driven by AVs, but they will be an essential part of the data system used by AVs.
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Old 04-19-18, 02:01 AM
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If you really want to laugh, just read through some Popular Science from the 1950s & 60s. The world was suppose to be fully mechanized and automated decades ago with robots doing all the manual labor and we humans sipping martini while lounging on the beach. I don't know where we went wrong, but I was so looking forward to my flying car by this point.

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Old 04-19-18, 02:06 AM
  #221  
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It shocks me that cars driving themselves have not met more resistance. Just goes to show that in a democracy one dollar = one vote.
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Old 04-19-18, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
It shocks me that cars driving themselves have not met more resistance. Just goes to show that in a democracy one dollar = one vote.
ummm .... what?

Maybe there hasn't been more resistance because ... most people don't mind, don't care, or like the idea?

I am sure you have polling data to support your idea that AV tech is widely reviled ... right?

And further evidence that there are huge amounts of negative opinion being actively suppressed?
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Old 04-19-18, 06:10 AM
  #223  
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I, personally, hate driving. If someone/thing else could reliably and safely drive me, I could spend the commute playing games with my kids or reading/relaxing. I could totally use that extra 1-1.5 hours a day doing something other than staring at other unpredictable road users.
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Old 04-19-18, 07:11 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by Oneder View Post
It shocks me that cars driving themselves have not met more resistance. Just goes to show that in a democracy one dollar = one vote.
I look at the road fatality data.
I experience, as a motorist, as a cyclist, and as a pedestrian, the daily road rage and bad driving habits.
I compare the attitudes of drivers after with before the Mayor gives his VisionZero speech after every fatality.
I hear the criticism against the police and the government everytime increased enforcement is implemented.
And I think to myself, what could be done to increase road safety if drivers aren't going to do it themselves?

Then along comes the prospects of self-driving vehicles. So obvious.

There's more than enough of these types of incidences going on everywhere.

https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/1141626-odd-motorist-behaviour-morning.html#post20293667

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Old 04-19-18, 07:24 AM
  #225  
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I get the opposition to being required to carry a transponder, just to ride a bike. My intuition is that so many people would balk that it will never happen, and if it did it would be unenforceable.

But turn it around, if new cars including manually driven were required to detect them, and present some kind of warning or cue when a signal was in or close to the vehicle's path, I'd gladly purchase one and carry it around. Pedestrians and cyclists who didn't, would be no worse off than before. It will never become the sole or primary way for vehicles to avoid hitting people (just a little common sense here) and will always be at best an additional safety measure. In that case I don't see any problem with the technology, and would be glad to see it implemented.
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