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Advocacy & Safety Cyclists should expect and demand safe accommodation on every public road, just as do all other users. Discuss your bicycle advocacy and safety concerns here.

View Poll Results: Do you take a prominent position in a lane when needed?
Yes, I take a prominent lane postion when I need to for my own safety. 58 82.86%
No, I do not ever take over a lane. 12 17.14%
Voters: 70. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-16-18, 03:23 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Just wanna be clear exactly what's going on here:

You are choosing to place yourself directly in the path of a motorized vehicle travelling at a speed much greater than yours; you're completely exposed and unprotected, on a bicycle; you're relying on them to "make the appropriate adjustment in their own speed and course".
Roads are full of vehicles traveling at different speeds. Farm equipment, school busses, delivery vehicles, slow drivers, cyclists, etc all legally operate on the road at different speeds. When highways are designed, speed limits, sight lines, and routes are chosen to maximize each driver's ability to operate their vehicle safely.

FWIW, I am also depending on a painted yellow line, common practice, and basic human decency to keep drivers going the opposite direction from crossing the center line and running me down.

Taking the lane is legal, practical, and safe. It is the most visible portion of the road and gives other drivers the greatest opportunity to go around you with the least effort.
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Old 04-16-18, 03:30 PM   #27
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I think "close passes/clipping" occur for different reasons than rear-end collisions (it would seem rear-end collisions occur due to not being "seen").
I would agree, and from personal experience. I was hit from behind by a driver in the early morning hours. I had ample light and high vis clothing. It was a long straight stretch behind me, and yet the driver hit me. Fortunately it wasn't a high speed collision, otherwise I wouldn't be here. The driver didn't see me. It didn't help that he was intoxicated and sleep deprived.

The clipping-type collision would likely be from drivers thinking they had more space than they actually do on the right side, but they would have seen you.
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Old 04-16-18, 03:34 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Just wanna be clear exactly what's going on here:

You are choosing to place yourself directly in the path of a motorized vehicle travelling at a speed much greater than yours; you're completely exposed and unprotected, on a bicycle; you're relying on them to "make the appropriate adjustment in their own speed and course".
Yes, and that's why it works. Drivers see a cyclist directly in their path as highly relevant. It sets off alarms and grabs their attention in a way that an edge riding cyclist never could. That's why drivers almost always adjust their lane position and/or speed early in this situation.

Monitoring with a mirror confirms this to be the case.

The rare motorist who does not "make the appropriate adjustment in their own speed and course" will stand out, giving the alert cyclist notice. The cyclist in the lane always has buffer space to their right to glide into if needed.

Being "hit" would require failure on the part of two persons. First the motorist not seeing or reacting to the cyclist, and then the cyclist not noticing this failure and taking action. Not a likely situation.
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Old 04-16-18, 03:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Just wanna be clear exactly what's going on here:

You are choosing to place yourself directly in the path of a motorized vehicle travelling at a speed much greater than yours; you're completely exposed and unprotected, on a bicycle; you're relying on them to "make the appropriate adjustment in their own speed and course".
On many roads the fact that you are riding "along side" cars places you in the path of of motorized vehicle travel. Whether the distance from the curb is three feet or four feet, the difference in this case is trivial, because riding closer to the curb often doesn't mean that you are any further away from that speeding car; the car just moves further to the right to take up that space and you are back to square one.

Using a mirror you can see what the car behind you is doing. Taking the lane means that cars will move to the next lane to pass you.

I don't like to ride on multi-lane roads but when I do this is what I do and I notice that cars give me more space.
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Old 04-16-18, 06:53 PM   #30
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Much luck to you with that.
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Old 04-16-18, 06:53 PM   #31
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Yes, and that's why it works. Drivers see a cyclist directly in their path as highly relevant. It sets off alarms and grabs their attention in a way that an edge riding cyclist never could. That's why drivers almost always adjust their lane position and/or speed early in this situation.

Monitoring with a mirror confirms this to be the case.

The rare motorist who does not "make the appropriate adjustment in their own speed and course" will stand out, giving the alert cyclist notice. The cyclist in the lane always has buffer space to their right to glide into if needed.

Being "hit" would require failure on the part of two persons. First the motorist not seeing or reacting to the cyclist, and then the cyclist not noticing this failure and taking action. Not a likely situation.

Only takes one to tangle.
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Old 04-16-18, 07:08 PM   #32
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My view is that I can't control the cars. Only the drivers can control their cars. I can't control the drivers. So I don't enter a traffic lane unless: 1) It's empty, or 2) I can be reasonably assured that the driver behind me is controlling their car. The latter might be possible if I make eye contact, or signal and notice that they're making space for me. Granted, I've found a mirror to be useful, and would consider it to be a safety factor.
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Old 04-16-18, 07:09 PM   #33
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My view is that I can't control the cars. Only the drivers can control their cars. I can't control the drivers. So I don't enter a traffic lane unless: 1) It's empty, or 2) I can be reasonably assured that the driver behind me is controlling their car. The latter might be possible if I make eye contact, or signal and notice that they're making space for me. Granted, I've found a mirror to be useful, and would consider it to be a safety factor.
What do you do once your in the road? Pull off when you hear a car coming?
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Old 04-16-18, 07:33 PM   #34
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The key is "when I need to". Of course, when I need to I "take the lane". Typically is when the road is narrowing such as over a bridge I will have to move left regardless, so I do so before traffic is close by / abreast. I've also done it regularly in certain locations where I find a common tendency to right hook me. I don't "need to" in order to dictate to other vehicles when they should pass.

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Old 04-16-18, 07:48 PM   #35
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What kind of mirrors do you guys use?
I have a glasses mounted mirror I used yesterday and today to keep an eye on traffic behind me. It works fine but is a PITA to adjust every time I ride.
I've used some mirrors that clipped onto the handlebars but they tended to move alot in the wind and tended to only be useful when I'm going slow. Are bar end mirrors any better?
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Old 04-16-18, 07:49 PM   #36
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Most important, I think, are to be visible and to be visibly courteous.

I tend to ride as far right as possible, but on shoulderless roads you do have to take more control of the lane to be safe. Most important to me is I try to give a little as a car approaches from behind. Just a courtesy if I have the room to give. I always wave to people who show me some courtesy.
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Old 04-16-18, 07:53 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by AlexanderLS View Post
What kind of mirrors do you guys use?
I have a glasses mounted mirror I used yesterday and today to keep an eye on traffic behind me. It works fine but is a PITA to adjust every time I ride.
I've used some mirrors that clipped onto the handlebars but they tended to move alot in the wind and tended to only be useful when I'm going slow. Are bar end mirrors any better?
Haven’t ridden regularly with a mirror in years, though recently tried a barend mirror. Had a helmet mirror that I liked when I lived in the city - took only a few seconds to adjust once you get the hang of it. Bar end mirrors are a hazard to me. Takes my eye off the road too long to look down like that. Rode one recently, almost tossed it in the bin after ride #1... instead gave it to my young son who brushes his teeth with it.

Helmet or glasses mirror is the way to go imho.
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Last edited by RobotGuy; 04-16-18 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 04-16-18, 08:00 PM   #38
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What do you do once your in the road? Pull off when you hear a car coming?
In some cases, yes. Depends on how fast. The roads that I ride on tend to have a decent shoulder, so it's usually not a big deal.
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Old 04-16-18, 08:20 PM   #39
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Helmet or glasses mirror is the way to go imho.
Thanks. I'm going to go ahead and order a helmet mirror. A part of the problem with my glasses mirror is it depends on the position of my glasses. When I need to raise my carbon filter mask I have to lower my glasses to avoid fog.
When I get sweaty it tends to also dip on it's own.

To those who asked, I use a cycliq fly6 on the rear and I leave it on the blinking mode during daytime riding. I also have used a mirror the last two days that I have rode with the intent to take lanes. I have not taken the lane during night riding as I only decided to take the lane a few days ago. I would like it to warm up more before I get back into night riding. I have used and will continue to use the shoulder on the incredibly small sections of local road that have enough shoulder to facilitate safe passing.

I didn't just wake up one day and decide that my neighbors are incapable of giving me safe passing distance. I put up a sign that informed them of the 3 feet law, I continued to hope they would change. They showed me that they either don't care to give me safe distance or cannot gauge safe passing distance while in their vehicles. I tried advocacy before action but at the end of the day, I needed to start taking the lane as they don't care and eventually one of them would've clipped me. The frequent close passes cause more emotional distress than it was worth. I'd rather them rear end me and kill me then torture me and intimidate me with their close passing.

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Old 04-16-18, 10:19 PM   #40
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This mirror has worked the best for me and I have tried several different types.

https://www.amazon.com/Bike-Peddler-...ror&th=1&psc=1
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Old 04-17-18, 03:33 AM   #41
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This mirror has worked the best for me and I have tried several different types.

https://www.amazon.com/Bike-Peddler-...ror&th=1&psc=1
I just got one for group rides. it takes some adjusting, and some getting used to.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:42 AM   #42
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I just got one for group rides. it takes some adjusting, and some getting used to.
Sorry, I can't help you with that one. I grew up target shooting and learned to shoot with both eyes open, and when I got around to using the mirror, it was a natural extension from shooting.
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Old 04-17-18, 03:59 AM   #43
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What kind of mirrors do you guys use?
I have a glasses mounted mirror I used yesterday and today to keep an eye on traffic behind me. It works fine but is a PITA to adjust every time I ride.

I've used some mirrors that clipped onto the handlebars but they tended to move a lot in the wind and tended to only be useful when I'm going slow. Are bar end mirrors any better?
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It is still a bit unsettling to take the lane, though my rearview mirrors keep me aware, and I now scan them more frequently, a good thing.

I soon determined that at about 30 yards behind me, the driver probably has noticed me, but is not yet impatient. So at that point I veer rightward to acknowledege the car’s presence...
I use two, right and left, eyeglass mounted Take-a Look mirrors and have posted about the advantages (link).

I found that I kept knocking off helmet mounted and handlebar mirrors when transporting helmet or bike. Also it seems with a bar end mirror you would lose the field of vision when standing up to pedal.
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Haven’t ridden regularly with a mirror in years, though recently tried a bar end mirror. Had a helmet mirror that I liked when I lived in the city - took only a few seconds to adjust once you get the hang of it.

Bar end mirrors are a hazard to me. Takes my eye off the road too long to look down like that.

Rode one recently,almost tossed it in the bin after ride #1... instead gave it to my young son who brushes his teeth with it.

Helmet or glasses mirror is the way to go imho.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-17-18 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 04-17-18, 04:14 AM   #44
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Most important, I think, are to be visible and to be visibly courteous.

I tend to ride as far right as possible, but on shoulderless roads you do have to take more control of the lane to be safe.

Most important to me is I try to give a little as a car approaches from behind. Just a courtesy if I have the room to give. I always wave to people who show me some courtesy.
I posted earlier on this thread about a similar modification of a “take the lane” strategy.
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On a few rides over the past few days I have tried out the more aggressive position, in the right tire track, with very good results. I can easily monitor the driver's responses in my rearview mirror...so far no aggressive maneuvers or honking.

I also like your [@PaulBarnard] strategy of gently nudging towards the center, then relenting towards the right. And I always give a wave to the cooperative driver, either before or after their pass.


So this morning I employed the above-described strategy again with excellent results. My routes are particularly amenable since passing cars are sporadic, not continuous; and if any drivers are to be impatient, they likely would be morning commuters...

I soon determined that at about 30 yards behind me, the driver probably has noticed me, but is not yet impatient. So at that point I veer rightward to acknowledege the car’s presence and show my cooperative “share the road” attitude

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 04-17-18 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 04-17-18, 05:15 AM   #45
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I soon determined that at about 30 yards behind me, the driver probably has noticed me, but is not yet impatient. So at that point I veer rightward to acknowledge the car’s presence and show my cooperative “share the road” attitude…
I do something similar—rather than aggressively announcing “I am in your way and I will make you wait!” I announce, “I know you are there and I will cooperate with you.”

Each to his or her own. Whatever works for each and keeps each safe.
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Old 04-17-18, 06:24 AM   #46
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… I soon determined that at about 30 yards behind me, the driver probably has noticed me, but is not yet impatient. So at that point I veer rightward to acknowledege the car’s presence and show my cooperative “share the road” attitude
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I do something similar—rather than aggressively announcing “I am in your way and I will make you wait!” I announce, “I know you are there and I will cooperate with you.”

Each to his or her own. Whatever works for each and keeps each safe.
Don’t forget to wave.
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... And I always give a wave to the cooperative driver, either before or after their pass.
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Old 04-17-18, 07:12 AM   #47
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[COLOR=black][468661]

I found that I kept knocking off helmet mounted and handlebar mirrors when transporting helmet or bike. Also it seems with a bar end mirror you would lose the field of vision when standing up to pedal.
Helmet mirrors need to be taken off between rides, like glasses mounted mirrors. Yeah, bar mounted don’t work for me either, I’m constantly changing my position, and bar mounts don’t allow that. Also, bar mounts being farther away need to be bigger to allow the same field of view of glasses or helmet mount, which is another reason I don’t like.
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Old 04-17-18, 09:06 AM   #48
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I find the helmet mounted mirror most effective. It does take a bit to find the right position, and get used to it when new. I never remove it, and try to take care when setting the helmet down so as to "save" the position. This works for me most of the time, but honestly even when it does get bumped out of line, it's not that big of a deal to properly reposition it.

I also have an eyeglass mounted mirror, for times I'm not using a helmet.
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Old 04-17-18, 11:40 AM   #49
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I've been using this blackburn mirror mounted to brifter for 10yr+. Always a clear view back and as it is wide can see curb to curb. Never could get eyeglass mirror to work with bifocals and my backpack blocked view. With the bar mount mirror I don't need to contort my head to see back, instead I can just move eyeballs.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

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Old 04-17-18, 12:13 PM   #50
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...I found that I kept knocking off helmet mounted and handlebar mirrors when transporting helmet or bike.…
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Helmet mirrors need to be taken off between rides, like glasses mounted mirrors
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Whenever I see a series of nested quotes, I think "it's Jim from 'Duh' again."
Even though I am from D’uh, I do know that. The helmet mirror I had used was I think called Third Eye, and was affixed directly to the helmet with an adhesive.
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