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Thinking of no longer riding on roads

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Thinking of no longer riding on roads

Old 02-10-20, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Are you guys still at it? Recent threads seem to indicate that a cyclists only risk on the road is distracted drivers. This is FALSE! 50% of cyclist fatalities do not involve a car! The cyclist collided with a fixed object or lost control due to a road surface irregularity or slick condition. Smoking is a bad idea but non-smokers living in big cities shouldn't be smug about it. A New Yorker 'smokes' the equivalent of four or five cigarettes every day because the air is so bad. L.A. is very similar. A city like Portland or Chicago is way less polluted but still measurable. And finally, riding on sidewalks is not a best practice. It just isn't. Done right you will be traveling at 1/2 the speed you would normally travel at on the road. Most cities of any size don't allow adults to do it. Portland does but I don't take them up on it very often. When and if I do it is for a specific and limited set of circumstances.

This is all wrong. The biggest threat to cyclists is the same thing it is to everyone--Big Foot and UFOs. They're just waiting to catch us unawares.

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Old 02-10-20, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm
Are you guys still at it?

Recent threads seem to indicate that a cyclists only risk on the road is distracted drivers. This is FALSE! 50% of cyclist fatalities do not involve a car! The cyclist collided with a fixed object or lost control due to a road surface irregularity or slick condition...

And finally, riding on sidewalks is not a best practice. It just isn't. Done right you will be traveling at 1/2 the speed you would normally travel at on the road.

Most cities of any size don't allow adults to do it. Portland does but I don't take them up on it very often. When and if I do it is for a specific and limited set of circumstances.
Originally Posted by bobwysiwyg
Originally Posted by mcours2006
...is something that's always been frowned upon, at least around here. Cars don't see you crossing a road. There arepedestrians, as well as many other hazards that make it more dangerous than onthe road.

However, there are times when it is a way better option than staying on the road...

I don't think I even consider doing it because of all the discussions I've read and participated in regarding the hazards of riding on the sidewalk. But having done it and feeling good about it I won't hesitate to do so if the situation warrants it.
I agree that non-vehicular hazards may indeed be at least, if not more serious and frequent concerns to cyclists.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I have described my lane positioning as situational.When it comes to potholes, the situations are changing virtually instantaneously, and I manuever accordingly.
Originally Posted by livedarklions
Right, but the risks of doing so vary with the situation. I'm going to avoid riding on a road where these maneuvers by necessity put me at higher risk if I have a routing choice.

There's a tendency to consider low-traffic as being by definition bike-friendly, and I think the roads I'm describing are anything but.
I frequently have posted about my
mindset (link) to avoid such unexpected dangers, especially non-vehicular.

Iím glad you werenít dogmatic about sidewalk riding, @Leisesturm. I have previously posted to a few threads:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
...:Last week I visited the family in Macomb County, MI. IMO, that is some of the nastiest road riding I have ever encountered,

The main roads, to get anywhere, are six lane concrete slabs with bumps about every 20 feet, and many cracks and potholes especially on the right, with no shoulders, and heavy, zooming traffic with little patience for (slow) cyclists. Sidewalks alongside are frequently discontinuous, and often non-existent.

Even as an experienced urban commuter, I will often flee to the sidewalks, little used by pedestrians out in suburbia. Some major roads though, like Schoenherr and Gratiot do have continuous sidewalks for long distances...

I used to feel resentful that I was self-relegated off to the sidewalks, but now I accept it as the way it is. Iím a visitor, and must accommodate. To further the evolutionary analogy I am a small furry mammal (cyclist), whose survival depends on avoiding being trampled by the dinosaurs (autos), whose evolutionary pathway may eventually lead to much less ferocious lizards.

(If I were really provocative, I might further suggest that the small furry mammalian cyclists themselves evolved into a superior species Öbut I won't go there. )
This past Christmas Day while visiting those northeastern Metro Detroit suburbs, I took some pictures of the ride. This was on Christmas afternoon, so traffic was light on these roads but during normal times can be heavy,





The road is two-lanes without shoulder. The sidewalk continously parallels the road with rare side drives. IMO it is a bona fide bikepath,





even more ameable to cycling than some MUPS I have encountered (see photo of Rock Creek MUP in Washington DC).


Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Iím decades-long, year-round cycle commuter in Boston, lucky to have a reverse commute from downtown to a outlying suburb. In general

I donít ride sidewalks in busy commercial districts, and I use bike lanes when available. However, riding venues for me are situational, and I use my judgement.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-11-20 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 02-11-20, 12:41 AM
  #128  
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Jim,
I feel your pain.
I had to adapt to my environment with 2" tires.
Bail to the sidewalk often....
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Old 02-11-20, 07:48 AM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Tulane University environmental sciences professor Stephen A. Nelson has calculated the odds of getting killed by a meteorite at about 1 in 250,000.

According to Dr. Nelson's statistics, murder (1 in 185), tornado (1 in 60,000), flood (1 in 27,000), and airplane crash (1 in 30,000) are much more likely killers. By comparison, the chances of winning the PowerBall lottery are 1 in more than 195 million. LINK

The odds of being in a bicycle accident: 1 in 4,717 LINK

Smoking related deaths are 1 in 9, just for perspective.

What are the odds of being bitten by a shark if you never swim in open waters? ZERO. What are the odds of getting in a bicycle accident if you quit riding your bike? Yep. ZERO.

Pretty simple really.
and if you look at the data you linked, youíve got a 1-6 chance of dying from heart disease, 1-7 cancer, and 1-28 stroke.

These are all orders of magnitude above the risk from cycling. Thus if the health benefits from cycling
give even the smallest improvement in reducing your risk of heart disease and cancer, youíre way ahead of the game on balance.
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Old 02-11-20, 02:43 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
and if you look at the data you linked, youíve got a 1-6 chance of dying from heart disease, 1-7 cancer, and 1-28 stroke.

These are all orders of magnitude above the risk from cycling. Thus if the health benefits from cycling
give even the smallest improvement in reducing your risk of heart disease and cancer, youíre way ahead of the game on balance.

Even the figure he quoted for murder is orders of magnitude higher than bikes, so if I get fast enough on my bike to outrun the killer I'm improving my odds.

I seriously can't figure out what point he thought he was proving.
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Old 02-11-20, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Even the figure he quoted for murder is orders of magnitude higher than bikes, so if I get fast enough on my bike to outrun the killer I'm improving my odds.

I seriously can't figure out what point he thought he was proving.
Let me explain it to you. The point is that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risk of injury.
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Old 02-11-20, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Theypeedonmyrug
Let me explain it to you. The point is that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risk of injury.

Sorry, I was agreeing with that point-it was Joeybike that I couldn't figure out. Apologies if that wasn't clear.
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Old 02-12-20, 11:27 AM
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For those who decide that bicycling on roads with cars are just too dangerous, I certainly hope their driving habits improves as they now take into consideration other vulnerable road users such as pedestrians and cyclists.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Theypeedonmyrug
Let me explain it to you. The point is that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risk of injury.
Cycling is one of dozens if not hundreds of ways to get exercise, including a spinning class with zero risk of getting splattered. Just saying. Every time you go for a ride in traffic you put your life into some stranger's hands. Likely that stranger is not even looking through the windscreen. Doesn't matter if heart attacks strike 1 in 6 who live long enough to earn one of those. Unlikely a 20 year old will die of a heart attack yet have the same odds of getting hozed by a motor vehicle during a bike ride. Not certain what the confusion is. I do understand denial. I see denial in politics daily which is equally perplexing.
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Old 02-13-20, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Cycling is one of dozens if not hundreds of ways to get exercise, including a spinning class with zero risk of getting splattered. Just saying. Every time you go for a ride in traffic you put your life into some stranger's hands. Likely that stranger is not even looking through the windscreen. Doesn't matter if heart attacks strike 1 in 6 who live long enough to earn one of those. Unlikely a 20 year old will die of a heart attack yet have the same odds of getting hozed by a motor vehicle during a bike ride. Not certain what the confusion is. I do understand denial. I see denial in politics daily which is equally perplexing.

So if you either drive or walk to the spin class, you have incurred the risk of the trip. The gym where the spin class is could be a fire trap or a germ-ridden cesspool. Where you're all wet is when you start comparing bicycle riding to zero risk activities. There are no such activities, everything has risks.

Seriously, stop trying to make probability arguments. You're out of your depth.

And btw, lots of men in their 50s have heart disease and attacks.
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Old 02-13-20, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Theypeedonmyrug
Let me explain it to you. The point is that the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risk of injury.
Originally Posted by JoeyBike
Cycling is one of dozens if not hundreds of ways to get exercise, including a spinning class with zero risk of getting splattered. Just saying. Every time you go for a ride in traffic you put your life into some stranger's hands. Likely that stranger is not even looking through the windscreen. Doesn't matter if heart attacks strike 1 in 6 who live long enough to earn one of those. Unlikely a 20 year old will die of a heart attack yet have the same odds of getting hozed by a motor vehicle during a bike ride. Not certain what the confusion is. I do understand denial. I see denial in politics daily which is equally perplexing.
Hey fellas, there's no need to be confused or to argue about what Joey is saying. Let me explain it to you. All our pal Joey is saying is If you don't want to ride a bike, don't ride a bike. That's fine with me, even though I do thousands of miles of impractical bike riding every year.
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Old 02-13-20, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Theypeedonmyrug
Hey fellas, there's no need to be confused or to argue about what Joey is saying. Let me explain it to you. All our pal Joey is saying is If you don't want to ride a bike, don't ride a bike. That's fine with me, even though I do thousands of miles of impractical bike riding every year.

No, that's not all he's saying, and no one WOULD argue with that. He's very clearly--but not competently--arguing that road riding is unreasonably dangerous. If you don't agree with him, he accuses you of "denial". If all he was saying was don't ride a bike if you don't want to, why would he be trying all these absurd probability arguments?
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Old 02-13-20, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
No, that's not all he's saying, and no one WOULD argue with that. He's very clearly--but not competently--arguing that road riding is unreasonably dangerous. If you don't agree with him, he accuses you of "denial". If all he was saying was don't ride a bike if you don't want to, why would he be trying all these absurd probability arguments?
Well, maybe you're right. I dunno. I was just trying out the old Rodney King "can't we all just get along" argument.

But there is one thing I think all of us can agree on: The surest way to avoid the risks of daily life--the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune--is to be dead. Some of us would rather take their chances.
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Old 02-13-20, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Theypeedonmyrug
Well, maybe you're right. I dunno. I was just trying out the old Rodney King "can't we all just get along" argument.

But there is one thing I think all of us can agree on: The surest way to avoid the risks of daily life--the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune--is to be dead. Some of us would rather take their chances.

I like the effort at peacemaking, but someone has a years-long posting history I won't get into.

In the meantime, that's a heck of a screen name. Who's this "They" and have you learned any rug cleaning tips as a result?
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Old 02-13-20, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
In the meantime, that's a heck of a screen name. Who's this "They" and have you learned any rug cleaning tips as a result?
WARNING: This YouTube video contains vulgar language and is NOT suitable for work or the easily offended!
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Old 02-13-20, 11:45 AM
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Old 02-13-20, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
WARNING: This YouTube video contains vulgar language and is NOT suitable for work or the easily offended!
That's a fair warning, so I hope the mods don't card you.

I'm a bigger fan of Fargo, so I'll remember not to mention wood chippers around you!
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Old 02-13-20, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
That's a fair warning, so I hope the mods don't card you.

I'm a bigger fan of Fargo, so I'll remember not to mention wood chippers around you!
Fargo, as well as the Big Lebowski were among my favorite Coen Brothers.' movies, but their all time best was Miller's Crossing. Watch it in time to celebrate St. Patrick's Day.

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Old 02-13-20, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Fargo, as well as the Big Lebowski were my favorite Coen Bros. movies but their all time best was Miller's Crossing. Watch it in time to celebrate St. Patrick's Day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYifReJJn4M

Being from the civilized state just to your north, I have to be extremely partial to Fargo, although A Serious Man is more the Minnesota I grew up in.

Burn After Reading is a seriously underappreciated movie. In some ways, the most realistic spy movie ever made.
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Old 02-13-20, 03:25 PM
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Old 02-13-20, 03:31 PM
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This one even has a bike joke:
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Old 02-13-20, 03:48 PM
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Remember, it is ALWAYS about Ethics!
OK, that is the end of this side trip, let us return to fear and highway/sidewalk danger!
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Old 02-14-20, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
Being from the civilized state just to your north, I have to be extremely partial to Fargo, although A Serious Man is more the Minnesota I grew up in.

Burn After Reading is a seriously underappreciated movie. In some ways, the most realistic spy movie ever made.
I spent a night in Fargo while riding across the country. My first exposure to a ND city of any size was Minot. Spent two nights there. When I first arrived I went to pick up my General Delivery Mail. Told the clerk behind the counter my last name. She repeated it and asked with a smile "Is that Eye-talian?"

Really like Burn After Reading.
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Old 02-14-20, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
I spent a night in Fargo while riding across the country. My first exposure to a ND city of any size was Minot. Spent two nights there. When I first arrived I went to pick up my General Delivery Mail. Told the clerk behind the counter my last name. She repeated it and asked with a smile "Is that Eye-talian?"

Really like Burn After Reading.

I've passed through North Dakota several times by train. I have never been tempted to stop.
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Old 02-14-20, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by livedarklions
I've passed through North Dakota several times by train. I have never been tempted to stop.
I purposefully went back in 2007 for a week-long, supported tour. One night we spent in the hometown of Lawrence Welk. His homestead (He grew up in a wood paneled sod house.) is preserved as a tourist attraction/museum. We took a shuttle bus out there and got a tour from a niece of his. Saw the very bed where he was born. The next day we did a century to Bismarck. Before reaching the outskirts of town with only a few miles left I would be shocked to learn that we saw 20 moving vehicles. One day we had to ride on I-94 for about 10 miles. It was early in the morning. Got passed by only four cars. Lots of little towns that were dying out as the old folks passed away and the younger ones moved away. Several years ago U.S. Bank was going to move out of the state because it was having so much trouble finding workers. My city has more than twice the population of the entire state. I'd like to go back, if only to ride through T. Roosevelt park.
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